Creationist Ken Ham calls to end space program because aliens are going to hell anyway

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: deadeyedick



Wait are you arguing that God is PURPOSELY making people hate and despise Him so that he can end the world? And you see this as a noble and divine cause?

Well i am folling scripture that states in the end he will send strong dulesion to the unbelievers. It could be interupted as a way of seperating the wheat and chaff.

And it doesn't make MORE sense to if God is able to do this, for him to direct the nonbelievers' thoughts to loving him instead of hating him? If he can control your thoughts like you say, why would he want to forcefully push them away? He loves us all unconditionally right?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Krazysh0t it is my strong belief that there are no coincidences and all myths are based on some reality that we no longer have a clear image of.

That sounds ridiculous. Things happen, sometimes unlikely things happen too. It is all probability. By saying coincidences are impossible you are saying that probability theory is wrong. Which is akin to saying that math is wrong and that is REALLY absurd.

a reply to: Krazysh0t Well i have never taken my thoughts to the point of math being wrong but since you brought it up i say it is the probility which GOD can operate in without having to make major changes. Therefore any action that is in high probility would be used by one side or another spiritually. The term never let a crisis go to waste comes to mind.

It also make sense and follows scripture that not all will accept the invite to heaven and by putting mental strain on everyone he is able to get a good sense of how strong we are in our ability to look at all the angles and let them all have there probable chance at being right and then being able to choose the right path even when things seem outnumbered. Afterall we hold some of our greatest feets up to a high standerd based on their chances of failure and being out numbered in odds. I can say that that is how a wise man would choose but he would seemingly be throwing away countless others but perhaps in his wisdom he has a long term plan for all.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Krazysh0t Well i have never taken my thoughts to the point of math being wrong but since you brought it up i say it is the probility which GOD can operate in without having to make major changes. Therefore any action that is in high probility would be used by one side or another spiritually. The term never let a crisis go to waste comes to mind.

I always think along the lines of probability. It gives the most accurate idea of the truth given the evidence we have. To make statements about probability being wrong is to argue in the face of reality.

So you are saying that God works by making things with a low chance of happening happen? But that makes the odds of said event go from near zero to 100%. It still violates probability because even if God IS doing this, these things should still occur naturally as well and you said no coincidences occur.

It also make sense and follows scripture that not all will accept the invite to heaven and by putting mental strain on everyone he is able to get a good sense of how strong we are in our ability to look at all the angles and let them all have there probable chance at being right and then being able to choose the right path even when things seem outnumbered. Afterall we hold some of our greatest feets up to a high standerd based on their chances of failure and being out numbered in odds. I can say that that is how a wise man would choose but he would seemingly be throwing away countless others but perhaps in his wisdom he has a long term plan for all.

Putting mental strain on everyone? I thought you said that God was mind controlling them? Now he's only giving powerful suggestions? That's moving the goal posts.

Also you just highlighted one reason why I cannot partake in your god anymore. He is supposed to be all loving but forces (or heavily suggests) a VERY large portion of his children to turn away from them to save a select few. Then he send that vast majority to burn or whatever after all is said and done. He does all this instead of helping the ones that have gone astray come back to him. Nope they get cut off forever. I don't see that as the actions of an all loving father. I see that as the actions of a father that takes favorites.

a reply to: Krazysh0t I'm saying that GOD stays out of it most of the time and that gives us our free will. I believe that we have two forces that influences us at all times besides our selves. Those other two forces are in spirit form to us and they use probality just like you do. When they want too they can up the influence on uus and try to negate strong possibility. The events like say the alamo just first i thought of could have been result of spiritual influences negating probility. It could be used the opposite way to help something that is likely to happen to happen. and then there is karma to factor in also not to mention majik.

a reply to: deadeyedick

This still leads credence to the idea that events with small probabilities cannot happen without outside help. Again, even if the probability is low enough, it is BOUND to happen. Another maxim of probability is that if it can happen once, it will happen again given enough chances. Some times people are just INSANELY lucky or unlucky. It is just part of life.

Though I'd like to know, if your account of things is true, how low does the probability have to be to need outside help to come true. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that outside influences CAN'T influence probability. I certainly can't prove that they aren't. I just find that the assertion that coincidences are impossible is an impossible statement.

a reply to: Krazysh0t I would have to say it points back to faith that unseen help is available through beliving in a higher power and ones ability to react with the forces when applied. Goes back to GOD helps those who helps themselves. Then we get into the whole want and need debate and the effects of our own intervention has on the overall plan and on other peoples own paths. I do enjoy your line of questioning on these subjects. It seems that there could be many factors that all can come together and be wielded by some that can jugle all of it. If one's will is strong they can change things.

I kind of agree with Ken Ham.If aliens are real and abduct us they are playing games and hiding on purpose and secretly doing stuff.If the government has ties with the aliens then it is even more sinister.

originally posted by: mmali
a reply to: adjensen

I fail to understand how you can laugh at the absurdity of this, yet believe a man lived in whales' stomach for three days.

You crazy Christians.

It is very possible to live inside of dead whales stomach that is not in the ocean for protection.Not even an argument.

originally posted by: Expat888
Then people wonder why aliens wont make contact ...
People like that are one of the biggest reasons .. all they do is hold humanity back ...

I've said this before and I'll say it again: All Ken Ham does is give a bad name to pork products. I propose we call him Ken SPAM from now on.

a reply to: adjensen

You would think he would want to minister to them. Like have off-world missions where Cosmonaut Ham can spread Jesus in exchange for labor. I'm sure there's a perfect Space Africa for him to find out there somewhere with his name on it.

Bless his heart.

This one almost pushed me over the edge. Blood pressure reaching critical mass.

a reply to: adjensen

Ken Ham is a wilfully ignorant crazy man and the best recruitment poster for atheism ever conceived.

@OP - Ron White best explains situation with Ken Ham...



@deadeyedick

Yep, right... and every video game I play is some reality that you no longer have a clear image of...

Myths as well whole religion is solely based on human imagination and it was their best shoot to explain stuff that they were not able to explain...


a reply to: Jobeycool
You haven't read bible, did ya?

Atheism is becoming apprently ignorant like crazy and fundamentaly attacking christians and the bible.No one knows the origins of life and no one can pretend to know if the miracles or real or fake in the bible.But anyone can crawl inisde of a dead whale bellie and live.Stop being so literaly and fundamental with the bible on everything.Jesus said to have faith.

I know all this ham bashing is fun for u kids but there is a real question here

We have the 3 major things here

Drake equation
fermi paradox
And how these two can or cant be evidence for creation

now I did not say PROOF of creation but evidence

I personally think that if

A. There is no creator and life is a natural outgrowth of nonlife then drakes equation should rule and life should be sprouting up all over

B. There is a creator and life is not a natural outgrowh of nonlife then the fermi paradox should rule and though we have life on earth it was created here and therefore cant be found anywhere else and drakes equation becomes = to zero

Now is the situation that we cant find any other life a pro for creation?

How long do we search?

If life doesnt exist elsewhere how do we prove that negative? Otherwise we will have people saying that life will be found next year ...and they can say it everyyear indefinitely.

Now maybe we ca. Have a real discussion of the questions ham raises and not just bash people please

a reply to: Another_Nut

Except this thread is about the ridiculous notion that Ham is the judge of who is going to hell, and because of that we should stop space exploration. This is not about his ridiculous views about creation.

a reply to: Another_Nut

Have a real discussion of the questions ham raises

He's not raising any questions, he's making a statement based on idiotically flawed logic.

Again, here is his logic in calling for an end to man's exploration of space:

1) Aliens would be sinful
2) Aliens cannot be saved
3) Therefore, aliens cannot exist
4) Therefore, stop looking for them

Point #1 is nowhere in the Bible, so he's just assuming it. Point #2 is nowhere in the Bible, so he's just assuming it. Thus, point #3, which is the joining of #1 and #2, is an invalid conclusion, and so point #4 is not merited.

All Ken Ham has raised is the very salient point that ignorant people should not be so vocal on issues that they are completely ignorant of. He's out of touch with reality and made a fool of himself, no matter what his backpedaling, and your defence of said backpedaling, might say.

a reply to: zardust

Ugh but thats not what he said

He said aliens dont exist

Everything after that is just people wanting to bash a "well if they did exist" thought experiment

Wthe the point is they are mutually exclusive

Aliens and god

a reply to: adjensen

You are making up that oeder based on the order he brought them up but thats just a way to confuse the subject

It shows you lack of knowledge

This is not a new argument against life elsewhere

I dont like ham but I like him being used to discredit honest people less

Like other biblical religions that believe that you can become "jesus" of yiur own planet

a reply to: Another_Nut

You are making up that oeder based on the order he brought them up but thats just a way to confuse the subject

You obviously didn't read his blog post, because that's exactly what he said. He said that he didn't believe that aliens existed, and then spelled out why he doesn't believe that they exist -- because everything is sinful, due to Adam's Fall (a claim which is not Biblical) and that aliens couldn't be saved, because they are not descendants of Adam (another claim that is not Biblical.)

I dont like ham but I like him being used to discredit honest people less

You keep saying that you don't like him, but you're blindly defending him, so your claim seems rather disingenuous.