Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow

originally posted by: Zaphod58
What makes this even more amazing is the fact that the Su-25, with no external stores on board, has a service ceiling of just under 23,000 feet. So how did it get up to 32,000 feet to make a close pass?

Does "no external stores" include AAMs? I'm presuming the Su-25 is not equipped with internal weapons bays, judging by your phrasing.

If carrying AAMs, would it be hypothetically possible to still be within shoot-down range, by essentially firing upwards to compensate for the 10,000 ft. alt difference?

Or do their AAM systems have a celing as well?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

THANK YOU OP!!! Finally some sense.


Do you all want to know what the difference is between RT and NBC?

RT reports from both points of view.

NBC only reports one sided propaganda. It really is simple as that. Do not even try to say I am wrong - an average RT article is 10x more in depth than an average NBC article.


ETA: Also when RT reports something they will ALWAYS back it up with satellite photographs, first hand statements, etc.

What do you hear from NBC guys? "An unidentified White House official BELIEVES Russia was responsible."

Gimme a #in' break. I hope Russia drops the bomb on this bullcrap western propaganda. I really do. It is only a matter of time until they catch Ukraine and the WH in a bold faced lie.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

THANK YOU OP!!! Finally some sense.


Do you all want to know what the difference is between RT and NBC?

Yea, one is ran by Putin.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

THANK YOU OP!!! Finally some sense.


Do you all want to know what the difference is between RT and NBC?

Yea, one is ran by Putin.

Yeah RT says it so it 'must' be true! ! ! ! ! !

LOL.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Do not even try to say I am wrong

Glad to see you keep such an open mind.
2nd.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
What makes this even more amazing is the fact that the Su-25, with no external stores on board, has a service ceiling of just under 23,000 feet. So how did it get up to 32,000 feet to make a close pass?

I suggest people listen to this guy.

Mh-17 was shot out of the sky at 33,000 feet.

Well out of the combat range of the SU-25 as the article in the op CLEARLY says.

Service ceiling: 7,000 m (22,965 ft) clean, 5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: neo96

NEo guess what else? the air to air missiles onth e SU-25 have a 5 mile range. the craft was at least 8-9 miles out from the airplane in distance(estimated)

This theory actually makes sense and look at Russia at least they are releasing some information rather then what CNN and other western news outlets have being and thats fingering pointing acting childish and begging to drag Russia into an war with Ukraine.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
No it can't. The Su-39, an upgraded version of it can, but it hasn't been built in any kind of numbers yet.

##SNIPPED##

First of all, they say "it might have been". They should really try to get a better translator, that's one thing for sure ... and standing here, claiming in the eyes of others that a military aircraft, with a turbojet only gets as high as a chessna. Labels you as someone not to be taken serious ... maybe 30 years ago, and those aircraft that were created for training and exercise. IFF the plane is signed for military purposes and air defence, it's fully upgraded for that purpose ...

First of all, what can be seen here ... is if the Rebels did it. It was an accident. However, the question is being raised, wether it wasn't really the Ukranians who did it. And that question is very serious in it's nature, and very legitimate. First of all, why is a plane flying en route to a war zone ... that's Ukraine's fault.

Even if we take the rest of it, wether it really was an air-to-air missile, which iff-the-pictures-are-true do seem to have a suggest to that direction. And even if we accept the rebels did it ...

We still have this nagging question, why did Ukraine allow a civilian airliner to enter a war zone.

And why, are Americans so focusing on getting a political heads on for this tragedy. And fully trying to start a war, with it ...

These acts, of the Ukrainian government, and the US and it's allies ... makes the entire case, disputable. Even if we take everything else, with several spoons of salt ... these FACTS, still remain.

Just as others have already noted, as soon as I've read title first thing on my mind that SU-25 was not built for that kind of mission. It is support aircraft, similar to A-10 that most of weapon it carries are air-surface and built mostly as panzer killer.

If carrying long range missiles, that would place it at half heights of passenger plane.

Whole story does not make much sense, and as it comes from Russian sources, well, that just goes well in my biased view... they must have a reason to prove it was not them...

So where are the ppl who where treating "the other plane(s)" as a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory?

And calling ppl tards and so on.

Where is their God now?

a reply to: bjarneorn

You should really post the facts before you try to call someone out.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
What makes this even more amazing is the fact that the Su-25, with no external stores on board, has a service ceiling of just under 23,000 feet. So how did it get up to 32,000 feet to make a close pass?

the jet itself may only reach 23K but the missile reach is 12K with a standard. so theoretically it could have taken it down.

originally posted by: thesaneone
You should really post the facts before you try to call someone out.

If you are referring to the plane, there are only the facts provided by the Russian defence ministry. We can of course, say they're lying ... can we? hardly.

These are the facts. A plane goes down in a break out republic, that Ukraine has tried to get Europe and International community to agree to, that it uses maximum force and war to break into Ukraine. Their ideology is, Ukraine for Ukranians, russians out (dead or alive). The US, is backing them up ... just like they've been doing any other "nationalist" scum in the world, the past 20 or so years. In Yougoslavia, Bosnia was ok to break away ... but in Ukraine it's not ok, because in Ukraine they're Russians. Which basically means, that all US politics are biased and not objective.

Next fact. The plane had hardly reached the ground, when pictures were reaching the News, and the US/Ukraine were calling the rebels for terrorists. The bodies weren't even cold, when Ukraine was voicing sending in European/Ukrainian/US military into the region.

These are facts... and reading these facts, I most certainly suspect the US and Ukraine to have set the whole thing up as puppeteers.

Why? Because anybody, like the Ukraine, that allows a passanger aircraft to fly over a disputed area ... a war zone. Is not on my list, as people who value civilian lives.

These, SIR, are the plain facts.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

I just watched the vid you posted. Interesting. The russians gave evidence, which they provide, and made some statements and asked questions. The US said they have evidence that shows the rebels launching, but won't produce any of it. I think this is a setup by the Ukrainian government myself. I'd like to see the US's evidence myself, being an American Citizen. I would also like to have it crossed with the evidence the Russians have to find out who actually launched the missile. Who actually changed the flight path of that jet and why is another issue, the pilot of the fighter that wasn't said to be there possibly?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

How many stories are we going to see like this coming out of Russia. I kinda makes them look guilty to anyone with 2 braincells bumping around.



Smoke and mirrors. If Russian leaders had any common sense they would just let the international teams figure it out. And keep a leash on there "rebels" that are looting from the dead and removing evidence.

a reply to: SubTruth

How many stories are we going to see like this coming out of Russia

It's the first one I've seen...and the only real evidence I've seen so far.

I have stayed outta the MH17 threads because there has been no proof of anything yet but all I want to add is this, Russia has offered proof that there was a Ukrainian plane in the area after the Ukraine denied there was. If there is nothing to be guilty about then why lie? Russia is showing the world the proof they have whereas the US is telling everybody to take their word for it, that hasn't worked out too well in the past now, has it? If the US wants to lay this at Russia's feet then it's time to put up or shut up, show their evidence otherwise they just look like a rabid dog looking for someone to bite.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Did you really look at it? Doesn't look correct.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Flatcoat

Did you really look at it? Doesn't look correct.

Truth is I have no idea how to read a radar screen, but at least it's something other than people screaming "They did it!" with no evidence at all to back them up. I've always been more of a "facts first, accusations later" kind of guy.