The Absurdness of Conspiracy Theories (The Truth About MH17, Why Do People Not Want To See It?)

I am aware that my post may be hypocritical since criticizing conspiracy theories, on a conspiracy forum, certainly is. But the pondering about conspiracy theories and looking at things from different angels may SOMETIMES lead to new insight...and..of course, we all admit it, it also has entertainment value. (Otherwise we wouldn't be here, right?)

But sometimes I cannot wrap my head around WHY people prefer far-fetched conspiracy theories over a truth which is right there, before anyone's eyes.

I see it as that many people come here, they "get into" conspiracy theories because they want to find the truth..but voluntarily chose to get further and further away, wasting their time with silly theories. They don't get closer to the truth, but further away from it.

MH17 is one good example for this. 160 something pages now has the thread. About what?

For me, what happened with MH17 is entirely clear. Better even, there is proof right there WHAT happened. There is no need to bring in "swapped bodies from MH370" or to waste 100 pages+ WHO or WHY MH17 was shot down. Again: WHY? Just for the sake to be entertained throughout 160+ pages of various, more or less outlandish theories.

Here are THE FACTS. (I am trying to do this in short form here).

DNR tweet, June 26:



DNR (Donetsk Republic, "Russian Rebel" twitter proudly reports they have now acquired a BUK missile system".

Tweet of course got deleted, but a cached copy can be found at:

webcache.googleusercontent.com...:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:twitter.com...

(Cannot post URL, it gets screwed up when I post it here on the forum..sigh...)


Tweet Translated with IMG:



In the meantime, RUSSIAN REBELS, yes, Russian rebels shot down multiple aircraft already, as far as I remember 10. So the downing of military aircraft by russian rebels in this exact region is not exactly something new.

Fast forward to July 17th, the day when MH17 was shot down. EVIDENCE RIGHT THERE:

A "separatist leader" proudly on a Russian site, VKontake


"The page has been posting for rebels affiliated with Strelkov for weeks, and has some 130,000 followers." So it's not some fake site, it's the real deal.

Translation: "We just downed an An-26 near Torez. It's down somewhere near Progress mine. We had warned them not to fly in our sky. "
Conveniently, they ALSO posted the two first videos of the shootdown with their proud message.

"Here is video confirmation of the downed little bird." "A residential sector was not caught" "Innocent people were not harmed."

Yes the irony! "Innocent people were not harmed".

Obviously, it took them a while but their grave mistake was quickly realized. Off you go, message. They of course deleted it once they realized their mistake.

WHY...I AM ASKING...do we waste time wondering WHO shot down the plane?
The rebels even provided the evidence themselves. Yes, of course they can delete tweets and their message on their 'VKontakte' page, but web caches don't like and thousands of people saw the messages...

And..let's not forget the intercepted phone calls..again, entirely in line with that RUSSIAN REBELS shot down the plane, and then started to panic and reported the incident. ON TAPE.

How much more evidence about a truth do people need I wonder?

Sometimes, reality is relatively simple. Yes, THIS happened. No two months old decomposing bodies. No body swaps with MH370. No attack motivated by "anti gays" to shoot down a plane with 100 aids researchers.

As simple as rebels (Who else? The others don't have a system capable to down an airliner in 10km height) shooting it down by mistake.

Why do complicated conspiracy math when all you need to do is adding 1 + 1? Look at the evidence.

I hate to tell you.

But THAT is also a conspiracy theory.

And, BTW, no matter what anyone tells you tweets are not facts.

Yep at this point it's ALL conspiracy theories.

You fell for the fairytale the americans created ... dont worry your not alone 80% of the population is susceptible to brainwashing/propaganda ..

so are you saying because this information was presented on the TV news we have to believe it ?

So you're ok believing Governments will lie and cover-up things as long as the MSM agrees with you?

If you had a small trucking company and lost two out of your 50 trucks under unusual circumstances, your insurance company would almost assume their had to be some type of illegal behavior involved.

originally posted by: Moresby
I hate to tell you.

But THAT is also a conspiracy theory.

And, BTW, no matter what anyone tells you tweets are not facts.

You know what Occam's Razor is, right?

There is multiple evidence (images) along with the tweets that the rebels had such a missile system.
There is evidence they DID shoot it down, lol they even provided the first videos of their alleged shooting of an military aircraft THEMSELVES.

Point: Why would you prefer a more far-fetched theory with NO supporting evidence, rather than the more simple theory WITH evidence?

If you doubt the "official story" here, feel free to prove that the tweets and the VKontakte page and the recorded calls are fake. And then, only then when you show that this evidence is bogus would it make sense to start doubting the theory.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Oooooooooh!!! Tweets prove it all. Never mind all the fake Twitter and Facebook accounts admittedly used in the last 5 years by various groups, governments and activists.

Oh and let us forget the propaganda tactics used for decades by all sides. from fake news reports, fake witnesses, fake coup d'états, fake operations, fake attacks, etc...

No need to question any stories coming out now. The tweets prove its all on the level.

Lets all stop looking at things for loose details or broken logic. Lets just accept tweets as facts and call it a day.

Sigh...

MM

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

If you doubt the "official story" here, feel free to prove that the tweets and the VKontakte page and the recorded calls are fake. And then, only then when you show that this evidence is bogus would it make sense to start doubting the theory.

Prove all of the conspiracy theories are wrong!

One thing that is clear as day about conspiracy theories. They wouldn't exist if governments didn't do bad things and tried to hide them in the first place!

Who would have ever thought that the government would think to blow up one of it's own airplanes? "Operation Northwoods" Declassified and fact!

Whom would have thought the government would purposely give people syphilis? Fact! They did it!

MK ULTRA. FACT!

It goes on and on! The scary thing is, what have they done that they DIDN'T get caught doing?

Problem is that by the time things get declassified, those whom were responsible are dead or have one foot in the grave! Along with most of the people whom were around when it happened. So what then?

originally posted by: Mr Mask
No need to question any stories coming out now. The tweets prove its all on the level.

Obviously this goes BOTH ways.

Tell me why I should believe, say, RT claiming that the UKRAINIANS hit the plane in a failed attempt trying to shoot down Putin's plane? Can't you see lies in front of your eyes? What is more logical? There are 100 reasons why it was not the Ukrainians, for starters, they don't even have a BUK. Or the idiocy why they would want to shoot down Putin's plane. And the "reliability" of RT. If you ask me, I choose the more "common sense" explanation which is supported by evidence.

Yes, not "proof", but supporting evidence. A tweet is not proof and this Kontakte page is not proof, but it is very, very strong evidence for what happened.

originally posted by: Mr Mask
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Oooooooooh!!! Tweets prove it all. Never mind all the fake Twitter and Facebook accounts admittedly used in the last 5 years by various groups, governments and activists.

Oh and let us forget the propaganda tactics used for decades by all sides. from fake news reports, fake witnesses, fake coup d'états, fake operations, fake attacks, etc...

No need to question any stories coming out now. The tweets prove its all on the level.

Lets all stop looking at things for loose details or broken logic. Lets just accept tweets as facts and call it a day.

Sigh...

MM

People in the intelligence community must feel like they've hit the Mother Lode with Twitter.

They just post a few words. Maybe the occasional still picture. And there are countless people who will just believe it. Not only believe it. But claim them as facts.

They must be giddy with delight over this state of affairs.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

" What is more logical? There are 100 reasons why it was not the Ukrainians, for starters, they don't even have a BUK."
They don't? Thats odd because I have seen numerous sources saying they did. Ukraine is trying to claim that it wasn't in operation at the time. Right.

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed


You know what Occam's Razor is, right?

Occam's razor is one of the most misunderstood and misused lines of reasoning in the world today.

First off, Occam's razor is a heuristic, not a proof. It is often misunderstood by all who use it today. As defined, Occam's Razor is misused often in the following ways.

1) Citing Occam's razor as evidence itself, rather than finding evidence to refute a concept.

2) Occam's Razor is a heuristic guide for hypothesis testing. It is not irrefutable proof of any argument that seems simpler than others.

3) Occam's razor is not a substitute for logic in any argument you make.

4) Occam's Razor is not a substitute for actual scientific results. The validity of empirical observation is about as conservative as assumptions get, making induction from it ipso facto a more parsimonious argument.

If you understand that, and Occam's Razor, you will know it has no place within arguing for or against the official story of MH17.

MM

I can see all theories have some point... but there is one that I just can't understand.
Why do some people really believe MH17 was replaced by the MH370 plane?
Seriously?
That makes more work than anything else would if you intend to bring it down somehow...

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: Mr Mask
No need to question any stories coming out now. The tweets prove its all on the level.

Obviously this goes BOTH ways.

Tell me why I should believe, say, RT claiming that the UKRAINIANS hit the plane in a failed attempt trying to shoot down Putin's plane? Can't you see lies in front of your eyes? What is more logical? There are 100 reasons why it was not the Ukrainians, for starters, they don't even have a BUK. Or the idiocy why they would want to shoot down Putin's plane. And the "reliability" of RT. If you ask me, I choose the more "common sense" explanation which is supported by evidence.

Yes, not "proof", but supporting evidence. A tweet is not proof and this Kontakte page is not proof, but it is very, very strong evidence for what happened.

You won't find me telling YOU what to believe on this matter. Its you telling all of us how silly we are for questioning this story.

Let me ask you this...do you think you would have questioned the The Gulf of Tonkin Incident?

What if it was tweeted?

Frankly, anyone making their mind up at this time in the game is overly trusting and easy prey for propaganda and government spun lies. You can feel safe in your stance as if you are so smart to figure it out. I have seen enough "on the record" false flags and false operations to not jump on your band wagon.

MM

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

" What is more logical? There are 100 reasons why it was not the Ukrainians, for starters, they don't even have a BUK."
They don't? Thats odd because I have seen numerous sources saying they did.

Can you cite some of those sources?

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

" What is more logical? There are 100 reasons why it was not the Ukrainians, for starters, they don't even have a BUK."
They don't? Thats odd because I have seen numerous sources saying they did.

Can you cite some of those sources?

Why would you need sources? Twitter seems to be a legit enough source for you to pat yourself on the back and call yourself "aware and correct". Just pretend his source is Myspace or something. That should give you enough reason to think he is right.

MM

If the Russian rebels really have shot down other aircraft that had innocent civilians and this is verified then I'm willing to believe this is just another example. What I don't understand is why they'd shoot down innocent people? I have not looked into MH17 or the other malaysian flight, so I can't really add anyting to this or even know what to believe.

If they did this then they can't get away with it. Innocent people are dead! If they're trigger happy then somebody needs to take their trigger away and lock them up to keep innocent people safe.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Hey NoRules.

First, its totally possible that you're right. But you seem to be asking, why would we question at all? I mean, could it be possible that an entire nation of people could be mislead by reporting from a seemingly separate, but actually unified media main stream media?

The answer, categorically, is yes. To see it, simply consider that pretty much the majority of Russian public is unified in its support for Putin, and the stories being reported there that it was brought down by the Ukrainians. (I read this earlier, can't find link now) once you see that, a rational mind must ask if we might not be in a similar situation here. But the point is, conspiracies happen. Is there a mass conspiracy to deceive the US public and convince them Russians did it? The Russian public to convince them Ukrainians did it? Or something else? That's really for you to decide, but you can't deny is that somewhere, a mass conspiracy is taking place, because huge amounts of people are being guided to believe opposite things: Some of them must be deceived

That's why people here like to throw around theories, gather lots of data, and chit chat about things before coming to any rock solid 1+1 conclusions. And I think that's a good thing!

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed
I commend you on the use of rational thought.
But man you are so going to get flamed.
You know this isn't a place of much rational thought sometimes.
S and F