A Better Understanding of Chernobyl Will Help Me to Better Understand Fukushima

The site is not moving towards the sea the buildings are sinking into the ground. I have not seen any credible evidence backed up by measurements that this sinking has occurred at any time other than the moment of the earthquake. The pipes they are putting into the ground to freeze the sounding ground around the reactor is to stop ground water from flowing into the building and being contaminated not to stop the buildings from sinking.

originally posted by: BGTM90
The site is not moving towards the sea the buildings are sinking into the ground. I have not seen any credible evidence backed up by measurements that this sinking has occurred at any time other than the moment of the earthquake. The pipes they are putting into the ground to freeze the sounding ground around the reactor is to stop ground water from flowing into the building and being contaminated not to stop the buildings from sinking.

OK, I respect your opinion, but...

You say there is no credible evidence. Maybe this is because no one (outside of an inner circle of engineers) bothered to make comparison measurements. And remember, there is that pesky state's secrecy law in effect in Japan that serves to block a free flow of information.

You say that the reason for the ice wall at Fukushima is to prevent contamination of groundwater. Well, J.P. Morgan said: "There is the reason, and then there is the real reason. You almost never get to learn the real reason."

Let's put the ice wall into the context of certain comments coming out of Japan which I learned about some time ago: a person with some degree of clout in Japan proposed just dumping the collected contaminated groundwater into the ocean. It was also proposed, maybe by the very same person, that Fukushima Daiichi just be left alone, as is. These comments hardly reflect an interest in keeping more contaminated groundwater from flowing into the sea.

You'd think that with all the contaminated water that had already flowed into the ocean, some more would not be an urgent priority. I think that something else is the urgent priority.

If it comes out that the whole Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex has been moving, even just a few inches over the past three years, it will look very, very bad for Japan which is out to avoid, above all costs, "panic," not to mention losing face.

Moreover, I might venture an unqualified guess-of-an-estimate that the prospect of additional contaminated water flowing into the sea is a big nothing compared to the prospect of hot coriums and damaged spent fuel rods spilling into the sea.

So, how do you assess priorities in Japan?

P.M. (Confidential to Psynic: per the title of this thread, better understanding of Chernobyl AND Fukushima is the intent, not just understanding Chernobyl.)

originally posted by: theworldisnotenough

originally posted by: BGTM90
The site is not moving towards the sea the buildings are sinking into the ground. I have not seen any credible evidence backed up by measurements that this sinking has occurred at any time other than the moment of the earthquake. The pipes they are putting into the ground to freeze the sounding ground around the reactor is to stop ground water from flowing into the building and being contaminated not to stop the buildings from sinking.

OK, I respect your opinion, but...

You say there is no credible evidence. Maybe this is because no one (outside of an inner circle of engineers) bothered to make comparison measurements. And remember, there is that pesky state's secrecy law in effect in Japan that serves to block a free flow of information.

You say that the reason for the ice wall at Fukushima is to prevent contamination of groundwater. Well, J.P. Morgan said: "There is the reason, and then there is the real reason. You almost never get to learn the real reason."

Let's put the ice wall into the context of certain comments coming out of Japan which I learned about some time ago: a person with some degree of clout in Japan proposed just dumping the collected contaminated groundwater into the ocean. It was also proposed, maybe by the very same person, that Fukushima Daiichi just be left alone, as is. These comments hardly reflect an interest in keeping more contaminated groundwater from flowing into the sea.

You'd think that with all the contaminated water that had already flowed into the ocean, some more would not be an urgent priority. I think that something else is the urgent priority.

If it comes out that the whole Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex has been moving, even just a few inches over the past three years, it will look very, very bad for Japan which is out to avoid, above all costs, "panic," not to mention losing face.

Moreover, I might venture an unqualified guess-of-an-estimate that the prospect of additional contaminated water flowing into the sea is a big nothing compared to the prospect of hot coriums and damaged spent fuel rods spilling into the sea.

So, how do you assess priorities in Japan?

P.M. (Confidential to Psynic: per the title of this thread, better understanding of Chernobyl AND Fukushima is the intent, not just understanding Chernobyl.)

If you are concerned that the buildings are sinking or moving why don't you take the measurements your self there are live feeds of the place that have been provided sense very early in the accident. There are also high resolution images that you can use if you are concerned about this. YOU need to do some actual research into the site and the accident and present the evidence you have gathered, don't bring up a bunch of what ifs and hypothetical scenarios it will get you no where. Also if Tepco was not concerned about the contaminated water why would they spend the time and energy to build a road just recently to bring in more prefabricated tanks to store the water? And what do you claim the "real reason" for the ice wall is?

Just for perspective...




... and TEPCO engineers can't seem to get the ground to freeze in their tests for the ice wall...

originally posted by: theworldisnotenough

Is the real purpose of the ice wall not to prevent contamination of groundwater that ultimately flows into the ocean? Is the real purpose of the ice wall to prevent the force of such groundwater from pushing, pushing, pushing the compromised Daiichi complex in its entirety inch by inch towards going over the seawall and into the ocean?

Link: Youtube video: Fukushima is Here.

At elapsed time of 3:23, the interviewee states: "The design of the plant is extremely troubling. It was built in a ravine which had like a river, a constant flow of groundwater."

Later, at elapsed time of 4:00, he goes on to say that the water of the "ravine" plus the incredible amounts of water that have been poured on the reactors have turned the ground quite soggy.

If the interviewee's characterization of things is accurate — "ravine," "soggy" — then I maintain that the buildings at Fukushima Daiichi are being subjected to forces by water pushing those buildings toward the sea.

It's just a matter of rate by which those buildings are moving.

P.M.