President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources

originally posted by: Ironclad2000
a reply to: Mr Mask

No I'm saying it's plain as day what happened... A five year old could see it.

The problem is you "idiots", who insist on all this cloak and dagger, conspiracy bull#.

Rather than look at it for what it is, you want to turn it into some huge secret conspiracy with twists and turns confusing everyone trying to get their heads around all of your utter tripe.

Russian backed rebels shot down a civilian plane with a borrowed Russian Missile system. They boasted and then recanted.

It's an open and shut case.

So just STFU..!!

So another words your proof is a brief twitter message supposedly taking claim, and reinforced via ad hominem attacks. Got it.

Even if the message was there did it ever occur to you that the NSA is fully capable of hijacking accounts among a plethora of other hacking skills. It's cool though, enjoy the Kool-Aid.

I wanna know where some think that the US and EU has funds to fund Ukraine's side of the Civil war. I know where Russia can get thier's.

I can say one thing about RT. At least they have news. I watched the entire newscastes coming from our local news station and when it was done wondered just where the news was in them! It was all fluff!

originally posted by: dawnstar
I wanna know where some think that the US and EU has funds to fund Ukraine's side of the Civil war. I know where Russia can get thier's.

I can say one thing about RT. At least they have news. I watched the entire newscastes coming from our local news station and when it was done wondered just where the news was in them! It was all fluff!

Most likely from smuggling coc aine, heroin and guns from Mexico, Latin America and Afghanistan. Since it's all black market there is no congressional oversight which makes it a nice war slush fund.

a reply to: rjbaggins

Why should we believe Ukraine's or American version? Give me a reason?

originally posted by: Ironclad2000
a reply to: Mr Mask

No I'm saying it's plain as day what happened... A five year old could see it.

The problem is you "idiots", who insist on all this cloak and dagger, conspiracy bull#.

Rather than look at it for what it is, you want to turn it into some huge secret conspiracy with twists and turns confusing everyone trying to get their heads around all of your utter tripe.

Russian backed rebels shot down a civilian plane with a borrowed Russian Missile system. They boasted and then recanted.

It's an open and shut case.

So just STFU..!!

How is it an "open and shut case"?

What evidence do you have?

It might interest some to know that another Russia Today news anchor resigned, accusing it of "spreading lies for Putin."

ATS post here

RT gets its funding from the Kremlin, so yea, maybe not the most reliable source regarding matters between Russian and the Ukraine.

a reply to: Ironclad2000

Russian backed rebels shot down a civilian plane with a borrowed Russian Missile system. They boasted and then recanted.

The missile system is thought to have been taken from an overrun Ukraine military base, that is now in the hands of the Russian rebels. In fact news reporters had seen it just days before in their hands.

Buk Missile Suspected in Malaysia Plane Disaster

A launcher similar to the Buk system was seen earlier in the day by Associated Press journalists in a rebel-held section of eastern Ukraine — lending credence to concerns that the rebels have more powerful weaponry than had been believed.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Just to add, this isn't the first shoot-down of a/c over Ukraine by Russia / pro-Russian separatists:

www.bbc.com...

They say the An-26 plane was hit at an altitude of 6,500m (21,325ft).

The plane was targeted with "a more powerful missile" than a shoulder-carried missile, "probably fired" from Russia. The crew survived, reports say.

www.nytimes.com...

www.businessinsider.com...

itar-tass.com...

Donetsk, June 29. / ITAR-TASS /. Militia representatives proclaimed the People's Republic of Donetsk (DNR) took control of the military part number A-1402 air defense (AD) with anti-aircraft missile systems (SAM) 'Beech'. This information was confirmed by ITAR-TASS, the press service of the DNI.

www.liveleak.com...

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
a reply to: Ironclad2000

Russian backed rebels shot down a civilian plane with a borrowed Russian Missile system. They boasted and then recanted.

The missile system is thought to have been taken from an overrun Ukraine military base, that is now in the hands of the Russian rebels. In fact news reporters had seen it just days before in their hands.

Buk Missile Suspected in Malaysia Plane Disaster

A launcher similar to the Buk system was seen earlier in the day by Associated Press journalists in a rebel-held section of eastern Ukraine — lending credence to concerns that the rebels have more powerful weaponry than had been believed.

Well that's all cool if it was... Might let Pooptin off the hook if it is, which would be cool because I always liked Putin. He had some neat environmental policies and kicked Monsanto outa Russia, which is the mark of a very intelligent man, whom is his own man (unlike Obama)..

But what ticks me off is all the freaking armchair lawyers and tinfoil hat brigade, claiming it's some CIA/US/Ukraine/Alien/Nazi/Zionist/god knows what else they'll come up with/conspiracy.

It really pisses me off because I had ties to a couple of the Aussies on that plane and these Anti-Ukraine/US conspiracy nuts are trying to turn it into some great conspiracy "as they do with nearly every criminal act that makes headlines".

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Well here's an interesting angle coming from RT.

It's Russia Today. Paid-for and run by the Russian government with a charter to create lies favorable to the Russian government.

Russia Today Anchor Resigns, Admits To Spreading Lies For Putin

For all the talk about facts, there have only been a handful introduced so far.

Several months ago, pro-Russian separatists tweeted about seizing a Ukrainian military base and its compliment of Buk anti-air missiles. These tweets were recently removed.

About one month ago, the same pro-Russian separatists bragged via facebook and twitter about shooting down a Ukrainian Antonov troop transport plane.
news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=A0LEVx8ob8lTQRgAOSzBGOd_;_ylu=X3o'___'E0bTdjcTJzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQ Rjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1RBVVMwNjhfMQ--

The same day as the MH17 crash, the very same pro-Russian separatists tweeted about shooting down a second 'cargo' plane, which they later learned was actually a passenger airliner.
www.nzherald.co.nz...

It seems obvious to me that these separatists misidentified MH17 as a Ukrainian military Antonov, and shot it down. The Russian government likely trained the separatists in the use of the complicated AA missile systems, so it is in Russia's best interest to blame this incident on the Ukraine.

The RT story about Putin's plane is shamefully transparent when considered alongside the facts. No surprise there, as many posters in this thread have rightfully identified RT as Russian state propaganda.

For all yall that don't want the old news from Russia:
Link..

And here is a story about an alternate method of shooting down aircraft:
Link

These are not from Russia. You will need to use the translate option in your browser to read...

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Well here's an interesting angle coming from RT.

Just wondering is there another source other than RT because they are known to make certain things up as of late.

a reply to: majestic3

Assassination attempt by the CIA most probably,

Or it could be Russian separatists with an itchy trigger finger, and misidentifying the plane would be more plausible.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but it is fun to speculate on it.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It's Russia Today. Paid-for and run by the Russian government with a charter to create lies favorable to the Russian government.

And they have had to apologize over a story they fabricated, and then we have this...

The Kremlin should surely investigate why Russia Today, the TV channel it lavishly funds took so much trouble to produce a ‘Truthseeker’ programme on the ‘Kyiv junta’s’ alleged ‘genocide in eastern Ukraine only to remove all trace of it from its site.

khpg.org.ua...

Definitely a biased source for information, especially when it comes to any news concerning anything related to Ukraine.

I don't believe anything coming out of the MSM regarding this issue.

US MSM saying it was sophisticated land to air missle that could only be handled by the Russians.

Russia MSM saying it was a targeted attack on their beloved leader.


What I do know is that earlier this week, BRICS finalized their currency and it became a reality. Next day we threw sanctions on Russia. What was it a day or two later and this plane gets shot down?

Cui bono?

This is a chess game, and you have to look layers deep to see reality. Russia shooting down the plane to blame it on whoever else doesn't make much sense to me. Putin would know we would run our propaganda to counter whatever claim they made. The CIA downing a plane equally makes little sense. This is just a stupid move for either major power.

Now, someone outside the two powers, who had an interest to perhaps sell more arms.. maybe that's an angle that should be looking into?

I don't buy that the CIA or Russia is this sloppy to try this in 2014. We live in a world of numerous information sources blasting globally. You can't propagandize a countries people as easily as a generation ago. You can't hide the truth as easily, either. Everyone looks bad when something like this happens, and overall people gain less trust and more fear.

I think it's a 3rd interest powerful enough to make this happen. Perhaps a major MIC player hired a private paramilitary operation.

originally posted by: tanka418
For all yall that don't want the old news from Russia:
Link..

And here is a story about an alternate method of shooting down aircraft:
Link

These are not from Russia. You will need to use the translate option in your browser to read...

Ok, I'll bite - how does the Russian President flying in a plane whose flight path took him near Warsaw, and MH 17, whose flight path also came near Warsaw, but at a different time, have to do with each other, given that the Russian President's plane never came within 900 freakin' miles from the shoot-down site???]

a reply to: pl3bscheese

The government spokesperson for Putin dismissed the RT article, stating Putin has not been over Ukraine airspace in a long time.

So the beloved RT article was a propaganda piece trying to suggest the missile shoot was an attempted assassination on Putin, while Putins person is saying the article has no merit.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Okay, I'm not sure that tells us much of anything. It's obvious that MSM is state run. RT lies for Putin. US MSM lies for our interests. It doesn't really tell much about the situation, just tells us the obvious.