The Hamas Charter

couldn't have said it better myself.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: Rosha

I remember being told as a child that the bible was the written word of God, which of course was a lie but a good one for propaganda reasons in the years after 1948.

However what gets overlooked about claims based on the bible's tales is that the author was not God, but the Jewish priests themselves. So any authenticity as to claims that were written by a group of people giving themselves exclusive rights to a plot of real estate with water in the ME should never have held any water whatsoever.

You should not be able to invent a history for yourself giving you legitimate claims to land that other people live on. It was the somewhat strange delay in giving Statehood to Palestine when it was a British Protectorate that stopped that land becoming the country called Palestine which had a mixture of Muslims, Jews and Christians all living peacefully side by side.

There was little delay. 78% was given to the Arabs to form Jordan in 1921 with the remainder promised to Jews at the San Remo Conference. Instead that remaining 22% was divided again and Jews offered half which they accepted. The Arabs rejected this and attacked the Jews. The Arabs wouldn't even accept 12% of the mandate of Palestine going to Jews.

originally posted by: Rosha
couldn't have said it better myself.

Same could be said in reverse. Israel has been attacked many times by Arabs.

originally posted by: Rosha
Here's a few lines from the Lehi Party, aka The Stern Gang, the majority of whom went onto form the Knesset in Israel.

18 Principles of Rebirth


Avraham Stern laid out the ideology of Lehi in the essay 18 Principles of Rebirth:[28]

The nation: The Jewish people is a covenanted people, the originator of monotheism, formulator of the prophetic teachings, standard bearer of human culture, guardian of glorious patrimony. The Jewish people is schooled in self-sacrifice and suffering; its vision, survivability and faith in redemption are indestructible.

The homeland: The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety.

The nation and its land: Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will.

The Goals
Redemption of the land.
Establishment of sovereignty.
Revival of the nation.

There is no sovereignty without the redemption of the land, and there is no national revival without sovereignty.

These are the goals of the organization during the period of war and conquest


Education: Educate the nation to love freedom and zealously guard Israel's eternal patrimony. Inculcate the idea that the nation is master to its own fate. Revive the doctrine that "The sword and the book came bound together from heaven." (Midrash Vayikra Rabba 35:8)

Unity: The unification of the entire nation around the banner of the Hebrew freedom movement. The use of the genius, status and resources of individuals and the channeling of the energy, devotion and revolutionary fervour of the masses for the war of liberation.

Pacts: Make pacts with all those who are willing to help the struggle of the organization and provide direct support.

Force: Consolidate and increase the fighting force in the homeland and in the Diaspora, in the underground and in the barracks, to become the Hebrew army of liberation with its flag, arms, and commanders.

War: Constant war against those who stand in the way of fulfilling the goals.

Conquest: The conquest of the homeland from foreign rule and its eternal possession.

These are the tasks of the movement during the period of sovereignty and redemption

Sovereignty: Renewal of Hebrew sovereignty over the redeemed land.

Rule of justice: The establishment of a social order in the spirit of Jewish morality and prophetic justice. Under such an order no one will go hungry or unemployed. All will live in harmony, mutual respect and friendship as an example to the world.

Reviving the wilderness: Build the ruins and revive the wilderness for mass immigration and population increase.
Aliens: Solve the problem of alien population [i.e. the Arab inhabitants of Palestine] by exchange of population.

Ingathering of the exiles: Total in-gathering of the exiles to their sovereign state.

Power: The Hebrew nation shall become a first-rate military, political, cultural and economical entity in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean Sea.

Revival: The revival of the Hebrew language as a spoken language by the entire nation, the renewal of the historical and spiritual might of Israel. The purification of the national character in the fire of revival.

The temple: The building of the Third Temple as a symbol of the new era of total redemption.

Aliens: Solve the problem of alien population [i.e. the Arab inhabitants of Palestine] by exchange of population.





All to be found quite easily : here

DO take the time to scroll down and have a read of their ties to the Nazi party....DO take the time to realize that insanity is across the board...not just in one group.

Do take a moment to stop and think that NO ONE has the RIGHT to murder children..that..is the only fact that matters.


Rosha

1. the Stern gang doesn't exist anymore

2. Two wrongs don't make a right

3. Population exchange is a different proposal than murdering all Jews re: Hamas charter

Nice try at false moral equivalence

originally posted by: Anglojew

originally posted by: Rosha
couldn't have said it better myself.

Same could be said in reverse. Israel has been attacked many times by Arabs.

Israel is an occupying force. The LEGAL and moral right of resistance under international law is with the Palestinian people.
Don't like that?
Tough luck.
MOVE.

originally posted by: Anglojew
1. the Stern gang doesn't exist anymore

2. Two wrongs don't make a right

3. Population exchange is a different proposal than murdering all Jews re: Hamas charter

Nice try at false moral equivalence

Yes they do, they just changed form. They founded the Knesset ffs.
Population exchange may have been the goal, forcible removal and genocide has been THE REALITY

The point I was making is that BOTH right wing extremes are exactly the same. " I am superior all else are inferior and must make way for me' its LIES and BULL# and kids are dying so this egotistical crap can continue. Most reason enabled people everywhere are sick to death of this neanderthal agenda itself regardless of who is spruking it.


"What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, the rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance, to Hamas, then demonise Hamas. The strategy works, especially aided and abetted by major state-sponsored or corporate media like BBC, ABC, or CNN. Execute this strategy, and go on a rampage against Palestinians, maim and murder them with impunity. "
www.aljazeera.com...



People everywhere are standing up..speaking out even inside Israel..ppl get it..even if those so invested in their own opinion they have become blind to their own conscience and humanity haven't yet.
Israel protests: www.facebook.com...

originally posted by: Rosha

originally posted by: Anglojew

originally posted by: Rosha
couldn't have said it better myself.

Same could be said in reverse. Israel has been attacked many times by Arabs.

Israel is an occupying force. The LEGAL and moral right of resistance under international law is with the Palestinian people.
Don't like that?
Tough luck.
MOVE.

Hamas occupys Gaza. Stop passing the buck

a reply to: Rosha

The Palestinians have increased in population four-fold since 1967. Under what definition could that be deemed genocide?

What'd interesting I'd you unjustly blame Israel for genocide yet support Hamas which clearly calls for genocide on its charter.

You're only defense of the charter is to try to incorrectly prove Israel has a similar ideology which only implies you do realize the Hamas call for genicide is wrong yet you won't admit it.

Whatever way you soon it you fail to renounce the Hamas charter's call for genicide against all jews. While I'm happy to denounce the stern gang.

originally posted by: Rosha
Israel is an occupying force.

Of course you ignore the fact that Israel has not occupied the Gaza strip since 2005, 9 years ago - yet you still want to blame them!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Rosha
Israel is an occupying force.

Of course you ignore the fact that Israel has not occupied the Gaza strip since 2005, 9 years ago - yet you still want to blame them!

No I just dont separate Gaza from Palestine...Israel, occupies Palestine.
I am also perfectly capable of discerning fact from fiction just fine on my own thanks....but do keep going...you're only up to #4 or so in the propaganda handbook

originally posted by: Anglojew
a reply to: Rosha

The Palestinians have increased in population four-fold since 1967. Under what definition could that be deemed genocide?

What'd interesting I'd you unjustly blame Israel for genocide yet support Hamas which clearly calls for genocide on its charter.

You're only defense of the charter is to try to incorrectly prove Israel has a similar ideology which only implies you do realize the Hamas call for genicide is wrong yet you won't admit it.

Whatever way you soon it you fail to renounce the Hamas charter's call for genicide against all jews. While I'm happy to denounce the stern gang.

I do not have population figures at hand but will. Irregardless if they are popping them out 6 to the dozen daily, Israels treatment of Palestinians still fits the definition of Genocide. A to C here on this definition alone en.wikipedia.org...

Not being Hamas, I do not have anything to renounce and even if I did, I am in no way obligated to on your demand. This isn't Gaza - my voice and will is Free.

I posted what I did on the 18 principles, only as I feel People need to see both sides of ANY issue before making decisions and to not have their opinions made up for them, not to attack Israel - when I do that, and some days I do, you don't need clarification.

On this issue especially, I felt that to see how and that the accusers of Hamas are no better at core than those they accuse would be useful.

The extremism in ideology is rife and ultra right wing on both sides, as both are of the same coin only different sides of it. The difference is, at this time, that international law stands with Palestine in their right to resistance, not with Israelis so this makes many arguments made by Israel moot. That they have the legal right and the IDF do not is a fact, one that in repeating of it, does not make me a card carrying supporter of Hamas just because you say so.

And for your information, almost every post I write on this subject anywhere has the same basis - as anyone who has ever read me can attest. That basis being that murdering human beings and especially, the willful targeting and murdering of children is wrong.

If that political and personal position I take is too hard for you, or too simple, then that's not my problem but know I will not sit quietly and shut up while people here try to speak half truths in attempt to justify the murder of children 'because of..xyz'.

There is no justification, no reason, no excuse. Ever. No apologies.

originally posted by: Rosha
Here's a few lines from the Lehi Party, aka The Stern Gang, the majority of whom went onto form the Knesset in Israel.

18 Principles of Rebirth


Avraham Stern laid out the ideology of Lehi in the essay 18 Principles of Rebirth:[28]

The nation: The Jewish people is a covenanted people, the originator of monotheism, formulator of the prophetic teachings, standard bearer of human culture, guardian of glorious patrimony. The Jewish people is schooled in self-sacrifice and suffering; its vision, survivability and faith in redemption are indestructible.

The homeland: The homeland in the Land of Israel within the borders delineated in the Bible ("To your descendants, I shall give this land, from the River of Egypt to the great Euphrates River." Genesis 15:18) This is the land of the living, where the entire nation shall live in safety.

The nation and its land: Israel conquered the land with the sword. There it became a great nation and only there it will be reborn. Hence Israel alone has a right to that land. This is an absolute right. It has never expired and never will.

The Goals
Redemption of the land.
Establishment of sovereignty.
Revival of the nation.

There is no sovereignty without the redemption of the land, and there is no national revival without sovereignty.

These are the goals of the organization during the period of war and conquest


Education: Educate the nation to love freedom and zealously guard Israel's eternal patrimony. Inculcate the idea that the nation is master to its own fate. Revive the doctrine that "The sword and the book came bound together from heaven." (Midrash Vayikra Rabba 35:8)

Unity: The unification of the entire nation around the banner of the Hebrew freedom movement. The use of the genius, status and resources of individuals and the channeling of the energy, devotion and revolutionary fervour of the masses for the war of liberation.

Pacts: Make pacts with all those who are willing to help the struggle of the organization and provide direct support.

Force: Consolidate and increase the fighting force in the homeland and in the Diaspora, in the underground and in the barracks, to become the Hebrew army of liberation with its flag, arms, and commanders.

War: Constant war against those who stand in the way of fulfilling the goals.

Conquest: The conquest of the homeland from foreign rule and its eternal possession.

These are the tasks of the movement during the period of sovereignty and redemption

Sovereignty: Renewal of Hebrew sovereignty over the redeemed land.

Rule of justice: The establishment of a social order in the spirit of Jewish morality and prophetic justice. Under such an order no one will go hungry or unemployed. All will live in harmony, mutual respect and friendship as an example to the world.

Reviving the wilderness: Build the ruins and revive the wilderness for mass immigration and population increase.
Aliens: Solve the problem of alien population [i.e. the Arab inhabitants of Palestine] by exchange of population.

Ingathering of the exiles: Total in-gathering of the exiles to their sovereign state.

Power: The Hebrew nation shall become a first-rate military, political, cultural and economical entity in the Middle East and around the Mediterranean Sea.

Revival: The revival of the Hebrew language as a spoken language by the entire nation, the renewal of the historical and spiritual might of Israel. The purification of the national character in the fire of revival.

The temple: The building of the Third Temple as a symbol of the new era of total redemption.

Aliens: Solve the problem of alien population [i.e. the Arab inhabitants of Palestine] by exchange of population.





All to be found quite easily : here

DO take the time to scroll down and have a read of their ties to the Nazi party....DO take the time to realize that insanity is across the board...not just in one group.

Do take a moment to stop and think that NO ONE has the RIGHT to murder children..that..is the only fact that matters.


Rosha

FYI, there is a considerable Arab population within Israel that enjoys a much higher standard of living than those living in Muslim countries. In fact, Arab Israeli citizens serve in the IDF, enjoy prominent roles in politics, and play for the national Israeli soccer team among other things.

But according to some misinformed members of this site, Israel is an apartheid state.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
FYI, there is a considerable Arab population within Israel that enjoys a much higher standard of living than those living in Muslim countries. In fact, Arab Israeli citizens serve in the IDF, enjoy prominent roles in politics, and play for the national Israeli soccer team among other things.

But according to some misinformed members of this site, Israel is an apartheid state.

There are more than 50 Israeli laws in place today that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life, including their rights to political participation, access to land, education, state budget resources, and criminal procedures and on top of those 50+, Military Order 101 is STILL being enacted today.

Military Order 101 was issued in August 1967, only two months after the beginning of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territory. This order criminalizes civic activities including: organizing and participating in protests; taking part in assemblies or vigils; waving flags and other political symbols; printing and distributing political material.
In addition, the order deems any acts of influencing public opinion as prohibited “political incitement”. Under the heading “support to a hostile organization”, the order further prohibits any activity that demonstrates sympathy for an organization deemed illegal under military orders, be it chanting slogans or waving a flag or other political symbols.

In particular, Military Order 101 establishes that any assembly of political character or which could be “interpreted as political”, whether it is held in the public or private sphere, requires a permit. Under the Order’s provisions, an assembly is defined as a gathering of 10 people or more. The Order further provides that the military commander may order the closure of an area where such an outlawed gathering is taking place. As a consequence, anyone who enters the area despite the military closure is considered to have violated the order.

Military Order 101 also establishes a basis for censorship in the occupied West Bank by forbidding any individual to “print or publicize in the region any publication of notice, poster, photo, pamphlet or other document containing material having a political significance”, except in cases where the military commander has granted a permit.

Military Order 101, which is still in force in the occupied West Bank and often provides the basis for the arrest of human rights and political activists, has been further amended by Order 718 (22 July 1977), Order 938 (5 October 1981), Order 1079 (14 October 1983) and Order 1423 (26 January 1995). (1970) - Source www.addameer.org...


......and then there's Military Order 378 subjecting Palestinians to military courts for...being Palestinian. Military Order 1644 , Military Order's 1650 and Military Order 1651 ( both enacted as late as 2010) and so on and so forth. Laws that do NOT apply to Israelis but apply only to the Palestinian people. That these laws exist at all, is apartheid in action and no amount of denial will remove these facts.


Beyond law there is the psychological apartheid as well which is far more insidious and calculated and I quote : " Israel’s demand that Palestinians recognize Israel as a “Jewish state,” rather than a state of all of its citizens like every other country, attempt to codify Israel’s discrimination toward Palestinians. Far from being a simple request to acknowledge current demographic realities, this demand attempted to coerce Palestinians into acceding to a purported Israeli “right” to continue to artificially maintain a Jewish majority by continuing to deny Palestinian refugee rights. - Josh Rubener Congress Blog 2014.





So it is...an apartheid state..whether you like it or not..however guilded or not Arab life within the State of Israel has become, these are the facts on the ground in Israel TODAY.

Rosha

FYI, there is a considerable Arab population within Israel that enjoys a much higher standard of living than those living in Muslim countries. In fact, Arab Israeli citizens serve in the IDF, enjoy prominent roles in politics, and play for the national Israeli soccer team among other things. But according to some misinformed members of this site, Israel is an apartheid state.

If you change the words Arab to black and Israel for South Africa you would have (roughly) what the whites would spout in their denials back in the day.
just sayin