Is it all Christians who support Israel in the U.S.?

originally posted by: ArtemisE

I was just wondering what percent of Americans who support Israel are Christians? I personally an agnostic/atheist and try and look at the chess board from the side.

I'm a Christian but I don't support Israel's action, nor Zionism.

Jesus Christ was killed by the Jews because Jesus told the Jews they are liars, thieves, and murderers and their father is the devil (John chapters 8 and 10 in the Bible)

Still sounds true today!

While most Christians think Zionism is a fulfilled prophecy in the Bible, I think they are reading a different prophecy not meant for the Jews. I think the Nation of the Israel is the "abomination of desolation" prophesied in the Bible "setting themselves up in the Holy Place".

In case you're wondering, I'm a Gospel-only Christian. I don't read the Judaism-inspired Old Testament and the Old-Testament-inspired apostolic scriptures, mostly written by apostle Paul because they contradict the Gospel with evil practices.

I don't see how any true Christian could support Israel. The very cornerstones of Jesus' teachings were "turn the other cheek", "love your enemy" and "he who is without sin cast the first stone". Israel doesn't turn the other cheek. They get attacked by an ineffective home made rocket that kills somebody .01% of the time, and Israel responds by obliterating hundreds of innocent people that happen to be in the area where it was launched from. Yes, it is definitely wrong to launch rockets at Israel and attempt to use civilians to hide behind. But yes, it is also wrong to murder thousands of innocent people in a giant over reaction to these rocket attacks. It's like getting bitten by a mosquito and taking a flame thrower to it burning all of the forest and shrubbery in the area, hoping to kill that one mosquito. That mentality is wrong and only creates more terrorists. Stop supporting mass murder. I don't care who does it. It's wrong.

originally posted by: Barcs
I don't see how any true Christian could support Israel. The very cornerstones of Jesus' teachings were "turn the other cheek", "love your enemy" and "he who is without sin cast the first stone". Israel doesn't turn the other cheek. They get attacked by an ineffective home made rocket that kills somebody .01% of the time, and Israel responds by obliterating hundreds of innocent people that happen to be in the area where it was launched from. Yes, it is definitely wrong to launch rockets at Israel and attempt to use civilians to hide behind. But yes, it is also wrong to murder thousands of innocent people in a giant over reaction to these rocket attacks. It's like getting bitten by a mosquito and taking a flame thrower to it burning all of the forest and shrubbery in the area, hoping to kill that one mosquito. That mentality is wrong and only creates more terrorists. Stop supporting mass murder. I don't care who does it. It's wrong.

maybe u can see why u are not taken serious,,

quote,, " obliterating hundreds "

then,, " murder thousands "

and finally "mass murder"


i suppose we can now equate, mass murder, with hundreds of thousands dead.

Since the incursion.

How many are Hamas connected?

or killing the enemy is now Politico Incorrecto?




reminds me of the Vietnam protests in the 60's,,,same bunch.

a reply to: ArtemisE
I have heard over 20 percent of USA is Evangelist. I do not know whether this is true or not.
They think all of this should be happened so that Jesus returns ! Does not they think a minute that if Jesus returns on which side he will stand !!
Our world is moving towards radicalization and it is really funny and stupid !!! The 21th century is a radical century. Who would think !

originally posted by: maes2
a reply to: ArtemisE
I have heard over 20 percent of USA is Evangelist. I do not know whether this is true or not.
They think all of this should be happened so that Jesus returns ! Does not they think a minute that if Jesus returns on which side he will stand !!
Our world is moving towards radicalization and it is really funny and stupid !!! The 21th century is a radical century. Who would think !

It's true... I live right in he middle of them. Lol. In fact I ATS is where I learned they were in the minority of Christians.

I don't see why we should support the new age religions from the Middle East to begin with. For the last 2,014 years they have been expanding outwards from the Middle East killing and raping all those in their path that do not believe in their god....follow their god and become their slaves. Don't follow their god and become a terrorist....follow your own belief and become a real hero in the fight against the expansion of the death and rape from the Middle East.....I serve no man...because I am not a slave....I am man.

a reply to: BobAthome

What about before 1948 ?

Some clues.....


Irgun

Haganah

Stern Gang

My most honest position is agnostic.

Personal story: I was once a Christian. Years ago now. Part of the doctrine that I was exposed to had to do with supporting Israel because they were God's chosen people. We were taught to learn and sing Jewish songs and dances and often performed them in Jewish temples. A particular goal was to convert Jews to Christianity because God had a special heart for them. We sang a song frequently from scripture that went like this: "I will bless, those who bless, my people. I will curse, those who curse them too. For this I have commanded of my servant Abraham, and I will keep my word." So we were taught that if we supported Israel, God would bless us and if we did not, God would curse us. To stand with Israel also had to to with Bible prophecy and the return of Christ.

Powerful mind warping stuff at the time. I left at 21 and never looked back.

While the church I attended was more focused on the Israel than perhaps other churches, I suspect that among many who believe the Bible literally, they tend to support Israel unconditionally. Against these truly religious beliefs, the Palestinian's have no chance of support. To me, it's all nothing but fear based conditioning, my experienced included.

originally posted by: kubacs

I suspect that among many who believe the Bible literally, they tend to support Israel unconditionally. Against these truly religious beliefs, the Palestinian's have no chance of support. To me, it's all nothing but fear based conditioning, my experienced included.

I am a Christian but I don't believe the whole Bible. The Old-Testamint is a Judaism spin-off. Apostle Paul is the false prophet that Jesus warned the other apostles against. The original 12 apostles accepted the false prophet Paul.

The name of Jesus is probably made up.

The only thing I believe in Christianity is the moral logic of the Son of Man. It's a very small % of the Bible.


Jesus saw the Jews for what they are in John chapters 8 and 10. I don't wish to quote those verses for I fear, that my reply would be deleted just like my other thread.

originally posted by: BobAthome
maybe u can see why u are not taken serious,,

quote,, " obliterating hundreds "

then,, " murder thousands "

and finally "mass murder"


i suppose we can now equate, mass murder, with hundreds of thousands dead.

Since the incursion.

How many are Hamas connected?

or killing the enemy is now Politico Incorrecto?

reminds me of the Vietnam protests in the 60's,,,same bunch.

The topic is about how Christians could support Israel. You haven't said anything on topic in this response, only nitpicked semantics.

Which part of my response is wrong? Mass murder doesn't have to equal hundred of thousands. When a killer goes on a shooting spree and kills 20 or a kid shoots up a school, they call it mass murder. Have thousands not been killed since the rocket attacks started? I already stated that both sides were in the wrong, but nothing justifies Israel's over reaction, especially if you are a Christian. I can't find any bible loopholes that allow revenge killing where the majority of deaths are people that had nothing to do with the attack.

a reply to: kubacs

your quote " "I will bless, those who bless, my people. I will curse, those who curse them too. For this I have commanded of my servant Abraham, and I will keep my word." So we were taught that if we supported Israel, God would bless us and if we did not, God would curse us.

this part, "So we were taught that if we supported Israel" , support "my people" should be more in line i would think.

Its the same as "We the People",, in another famous Constitution, it was and always is about the "people",, or sheep as some would say,,

a reply to: Barcs

ok the i will turn the other cheek.

originally posted by: kubacs
My most honest position is agnostic.

Personal story: I was once a Christian. Years ago now. Part of the doctrine that I was exposed to had to do with supporting Israel because they were God's chosen people. We were taught to learn and sing Jewish songs and dances and often performed them in Jewish temples. A particular goal was to convert Jews to Christianity because God had a special heart for them. We sang a song frequently from scripture that went like this: "I will bless, those who bless, my people. I will curse, those who curse them too. For this I have commanded of my servant Abraham, and I will keep my word." So we were taught that if we supported Israel, God would bless us and if we did not, God would curse us. To stand with Israel also had to to with Bible prophecy and the return of Christ.

Powerful mind warping stuff at the time. I left at 21 and never looked back.

While the church I attended was more focused on the Israel than perhaps other churches, I suspect that among many who believe the Bible literally, they tend to support Israel unconditionally. Against these truly religious beliefs, the Palestinian's have no chance of support. To me, it's all nothing but fear based conditioning, my experienced included.

The majority of everyone I know that supports "Israel" believe for a very similar reason..they THINK the bible tells them to (that's a whole other conundrum in itself).It is futile to point out to them that the scriptures say no such thing.It is a religious extrapolation that is "read into" to support an agenda.The old testimony is a very solid testimony to the "dysfunctional" history of "Israel" (who haven't existed as a nation of people for 3,000years!) and eventually Judah as a very messed up group of people.

The bottom line fact is the "Jews are NOT the "chosen" people of the creator God ALL of mankind are.EVERYONE will be 100% accountable for ALL they do with no "favoritism" or disadvantage being meted out by anything or anybody especially the creator God.The biggest falalcy is "israel" is playing out some type of "biblical" prophecy (in Daniel and Revelation mostly)and will ascend to be the favored Kingdom of the world through .Every event is an extrapolation to "predict" a future historical event "prophecy" that support a "theory" of the religious carnal mind.As unfortunate as that is that is what BILLIONS believed.

As a US Citizen I feel as if everyone should keep their noses out of it. It's between palestine and israel, let them two fight it out until there's one left. It doesn't concern the US, we have enough problems on our plate without having to play baby sitter with the rest of the world.

originally posted by: ahnggk
The Old-Testamint is a Judaism spin-off.

Check your sources.

You couldn't possibly be any more out of touch with reality.

That's a dangerous place to be BTW...

Judaism is not the Old Testament religion that many believe.

Jesus wasn't a Jew.

Nor is the Bible a Jewish book...

The late Rabbi Stephen F. Wise, formerly the Chief Rabbi of the United States said, "The return from Babylon and the introduction of the Babylonian Talmud mark the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."

The learned Rabbi was correct in distinguishing the true religion of the Old Testament as Hebrewism for it was the religion of the real Hebrews, who were not Jews at all. Judaism, the religion of the Jews, is as the learned Rabbi says, based upon the Babylonian Talmud, which contains the supposed oral law. It was never reduced to writing as part of the Bible. This oral law gradually gained greater force among the Jews than the written law in the Bible, with which it often conflicted in Jesus' day, the Babylonian Talmud was known as the Tradition of the Elders.

This was the religion of the Jews. As the learned Rabbi Stephen F. Wise said, Judaism was distinguished from Hebrewism, the real religion of the Old Testament. Certainly Christianity took nothing from any Jewish religion for we have never taken any part of Christianity from the Talmud. Well then, can it be said we got our Bible or our religion of Christianity from men of the Jewish race? No, it cannot.

The Bible is not a Jewish Book

Originally posted by pthena
The original Jews were the people from the Babylonian Captivity who didn't want to return to Judea, because they enjoyed the benefits of Babylonian and Persian culture. They aren't Israelites or Judeans. They are Babylonians. There is no mention of Jews until Esther. They didn't exist until Esther.

Hoffman then takes ‘modern’ Christians to task for furthering the myth of a ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition: “The Church Fathers knew of no ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition since Judaism as we know it today did not exist before Christ.

Before Christ, there was only the faith of the Israelites, until by a gradual process, the pure faith of the Israelites was subverted by corrupt teachings. These corrupt teachings were transmitted orally by the Pharisees. Christ condemned these teachings when calling them the ‘traditions of the elders.’” Review: "Judaism Discovered"

Judaism is not the Old Testament religion that many believe. It's a mishmash of various pagan superstitions that go back to Babylonian times. It is a religion of racial self-worship.

"...there is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity. Judaism is the antithesis of Christianity. The Old Testament belongs to Christians, not Jews. The God given laws of Moses have been negated by Judaism. And what about Christian-Zionists?

A Review of the book "Judaism Discovered"

originally posted by: Murgatroid

Judaism is not the Old Testament religion that many believe.

It's definitely not. Judaism is multiple volume book including the Talmud.

But parts of Torah made it to OT.

The Bible is actually a messed up book. The some of the Torah teachings contradicted the NT teachings of Jesus.

However, the Talmud is worse, authorizing evil against Gentiles and justifying paedophilia (Jew or not). It's a very good thing that Israel has not made their religious laws their governing law like the Islamic Sharia Law. It's probably just as bad or worse.

a reply to: ArtemisE

TextI was just wondering what percent of Americans who support Israel are Christians?

Actually I don't really understand what difference it makes whether one is Christian or Jewish or Muslim. A crime is a crime regardless of who commits that crime. The way I understand this whole thing is how do we as humans of differences solve this problem. Do we simply let the neighborhood bully do as he likes and eventually die as a result or do we make a stand and say enough is enough? I am not of any denomination and I do not support any particular neighbor bully.

I realize that if it were my wife and kids that had to sleep in bunkers and live in fear that I would try to eliminate that mindset. But it is hind sight to arm chair a war with "The poor kids mentality" when there is no other solution from the neighborhood bully. The solution was to prevent the tunnels and rockets in the first place but then how can you do that without being the neighborhood bully yourself? It's a mad mad world with mad mad people and it seems that once a neighborhood bully is erased then another takes its place.

I'm sorry to offend some people here but when I see throngs of well fed humans with all their needs met who live in a nation such as ours with the freedom such as ours, gather in hatred of others who had nothing to do with the middle east war, then it is meaningless and shows me that the neighbor hood bully mentality is simply inbred hatred. Religion is nothing but an excuse for justifying hatred. If a man's god is hate then that god is the neighborhood bully and I have no part in that god.

TextWhat I do not understand is why Israel was created and given to the Jews in the first place in the 1940s by the US and UK. If the reasoning is that a book from thousands of years ago said it was their right, then surely with that same thought process, the US should be given back to the native Indians, Australia back to the aborigines and so on. a reply to: flammadraco

You do not have the facts. It was not the United States and Great Britain who gave Israel a portion of the Ottoman Empire.

It was the United Nations the UNGA 181 that gave Israel a peace of land to call their own nation. It's somewhat complicated over a span of time but the final vote was 33 nations who favored the proposal and 13 nations nations who were against the proposal with i nation abstaining from casting their vote. The 13 nations against Israel were ----
Afghanistan, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Greece, African (i country) Egypt, Cuba, Latin American (1 country). After the declaration was signed it was but a few months that the Jews were attacked and trouble brewed. Since then it has escalated in a consuming hatred.

If any one has the solution to hatred it should be sought out. Hate is not confined to a court of law. It is nations of individual people who are not taught love but instead embrace the weapons of war instead of love. Hate is a tool of destruction.

originally posted by: Seede

TextWhat I do not understand is why Israel was created and given to the Jews in the first place in the 1940s by the US and UK. If the reasoning is that a book from thousands of years ago said it was their right, then surely with that same thought process, the US should be given back to the native Indians, Australia back to the aborigines and so on. a reply to: flammadraco

You do not have the facts. It was not the United States and Great Britain who gave Israel a portion of the Ottoman Empire.

It was the United Nations the UNGA 181 that gave Israel a peace of land to call their own nation. It's somewhat complicated over a span of time but the final vote was 33 nations who favored the proposal and 13 nations nations who were against the proposal with i nation abstaining from casting their vote. The 13 nations against Israel were ----
Afghanistan, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Greece, African (i country) Egypt, Cuba, Latin American (1 country). After the declaration was signed it was but a few months that the Jews were attacked and trouble brewed. Since then it has escalated in a consuming hatred.

If any one has the solution to hatred it should be sought out. Hate is not confined to a court of law. It is nations of individual people who are not taught love but instead embrace the weapons of war instead of love. Hate is a tool of destruction.

The ottamans have the Jews the right to have Jewish settlements, they just over flowed the palistinians as public opinion of Jews soured.

No. It is not all Christians and not even all Jews. Just the Zionist ones.

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