Sovereign Citizen, or Illegal Alien?

I may be a bit unclear on the concept regarding those (specifically in the US) who declare themselves to be "Sovereign Citizens"; and perhaps someone can help me understand a few things.


If a "sovereign citizen" claims the government of the country he/she physically resides in, is "illegitimate", and therefore, has no jurisdiction over his/her actions (no authority to require payment of taxes, no authority to require identification or licensing documents, for example), then, by definition, are they not declaring themselves to be non-citizens of the country in which they are physically present?

Isn't a non-citizen of a country required to have the permission of the "host" country's government to legally reside in said country?

Are not such "sovereign citizens" therefore, really just "Illegal Aliens", residing without permission, within the borders of a country they disdain, but whose "citizens" recognize, and hold in authority, by their consent?

Those who would seek to deport other so-called "illegals" should be seeking the deportation of these "un-documented aliens" as well, right?


Goose, Gander, meet Sauce.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

Sovereign citizens recognize the legitimate citizenship of the folks standing to their left and right. They have a problem with the institution of government. Everything depends on your perspective of their perspective.

Answers to the questions posed can all be found on the Internet.

a reply to: Bhadhidar
I was watching a video a while back where the narrator brought up a good point that a "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoron.
I never really thought about it but he was correct, not that I have a problem with sovereigns but a sovereign citizen just sounds wrong.
I don't think your argument holds much water however.
generally both sovereigns and citizens are born here within the US territory.
And for some who were not born here, they went about things lawfully.
It's the lawless criminals I'd like punished, this includes their shifty employers as well.

I think it depends on where you were born and your ability to not recognise the british gov. as your owner. From what i have found it is the entity that is created on paper for you when you are born and if you answer as that entity or if you view yourself as a person seperate from the created entity. As far as human rights go we should be able to denounce an entity that was created on our behalf before we were able to make choices and never had knowledge of the debt that was put on us by the gov. and loans from other countries. This could all be relevent if said lenders ever come to collect.

I looked into becoming a sovereign citizen once, it cost a lot of money which I found weird cause that is one thing that you denounce, so not sure why the people helping you become one need almost 500 dollars from you. And that was just to start so I be there is more to it. Kinda gave me the feel of a money grab.
I don't see how it would make you an illegal alien tho.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
I looked into becoming a sovereign citizen once, it cost a lot of money which I found weird cause that is one thing that you denounce, so not sure why they people helping you become one need almost 500 dollars from you. And that was just to start so I be there is more to it. Kinda gave me the feel of a money grab.
I don't see how it would make you an illegal alien tho.

Nice summary.

Declaring sovereignty is dependent on one's ability to become debt free and stand alone on their own two feet. Damn near impossible if you ask me. Most folks who've 'declared' are posers and shirkers of the debt they owe. You can't reap the rewards of society and remain an honest broker of sovereignty.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

Declaring yourself a non-citizen using fake paperwork doesn't make you a non-citizen.

Labeling yourself a non-citizen doesn't make you a non-citizen.

The sovereign stuff is pure fiction.