Tory child abuse whistleblower: 'I supplied underage rent boys for Margaret Thatcher's cabinet min

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: Chiftel

originally posted by: sosobad
It's pretty sad that a thread about a very important revelation gets put into the "left/right" bull#. Can people not just focus on the actual scandal? There was and quite possibly still is some sick #ers in the government abusing kids and covering it up. People should be up in arms about this.

Another one.

Another one what? You are turning this subject into a farce, this is a very serious scandal one that I believe is still happening to this day, all you are doing is taking focus away from the subject with childish left/right bull#, as for your" another" remark I don't adhere to either side so your comment is invalid, you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

I do not agree that everything is of the left/right dynamic .... there are some things that are disgusting no matter who perpetrated them.. this is one of those cases. Unfortunately, the dynamic which has established itself in the United States is that of political division. You cannot make a statement on ANY US publication without someone attaching a political connotation to it.

Take the recent World Cup for a good example. I was reading comments on CNN.COM the other day where somehow a story about the US getting out of the world cup turned into a hate-fest on the Obama administration. I am pretty liberal in my social ideologies and financially I am pretty conservative..politics has no place in certain instances but that is not possible in today's world unfortunately. If conservatives are accused, liberals will jump on the story like a vampire on a 16 year old virgin's neck.. if liberals are accused, conservatives jump on it the exact same way.

Stories like this are dangerous; there is not a single line of this story that is supported by any kind of evidence or documentation. While the actions described are horrid and disgusting, how can we go on one guy's word from thirty years ago? This is how the freaking Salem Witch trials happened in the 1600's. This is not how modern civilizations operate.

a reply to: R_Clark
Thanks you for posting this, especially as someone who
spent an exhaustive investigation into the Franklin Scandal
Including speaking with Ted Gunderson, at least two of the
kids who were whistleblowers as well as Johnny
Gosch (who I think is still in hiding) as well as his mother.

Rebel 5

a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss

We need to get rid of the 3 main parties they are very much the heart of this cancer.

We also need to remove power from the government they are too powerful, we need to focus on reinstating rights and responsibilities to the people and stop this neo-facist mentality that has polluted politics.

Minister without Portfolio Kenneth Clarke QC

Attorney General Dominic Grieve QC

MP Nick Hurd

These and several others are leaving the govt./the cabinet / parliament , its ambiguous news , very possibly related .

Clarke headed up the Ministry of Justice too . He's been to more than a few Brightons and Blackpools .

We wonder how many times he might have been to Broadmoor, and the like, to mess around the lives of those on the lock , while he's had the keys ..

This business goes way beyond the p word , into multiple abductions , false imprisonments , child murders , and more .

Its very very serious indeed , with no left or right about it at all . Look up the case of Phillip Bonhoeffer at Great Ormond Street Childrens Hospital , just for example. As bad as is imaginable.

Best wishes to the bona fide investigators and , GOD BLESS THE SBS !!

originally posted by: monkofmimir
a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss

We need to get rid of the 3 main parties they are very much the heart of this cancer.

We also need to remove power from the government they are too powerful, we need to focus on reinstating rights and responsibilities to the people and stop this neo-facist mentality that has polluted politics.

Well said
I'd go further and also kick out any corporation even suspected of trying to influence government.

What a bunch of nasty scumbags they are.

a reply to: VoidHawk

the less government there is the less the corporations can influence it. the government is the root of the problem, corporations are just a symptom.

originally posted by: monkofmimir
a reply to: VoidHawk

the less government there is the less the corporations can influence it. the government is the root of the problem, corporations are just a symptom.

Your logic escapes me....

Large corporations can influence and will influence all governments regardless of size. They have the money, the lobbyists, the hidden enforcers, gifts, job offers after public offices, and the support of people that really have no idea how influence peddling works.

perhaps a little reasearch....

topics.bloomberg.com...

www.globalissues.org...

Perhaps what you fail to understand is that the Corporations actually are the government. Bought and paid for.

Elections, polls, campaigns are a fabricated fantasy to keep the taxpayers thinking they have influence.

And least we forget that corps. have in the past used sex with minors as blackmail of government officials. See the connection?

originally posted by: jaggedj
a reply to: eletheia

Although I agree with what you are saying about paedophilia not being the reserve of any political party or affiliation, in this instance, and most other instances involving politicians and religious leaders, many of the perpetrators are the rich and powerful. Their victims are drawn mainly from poor and working class backgrounds. This may not be a 'Left', 'Right' thing, but in many instances, it's definitely a class thing.

Paedophilia is definitely not a class thing! ... it happens everywhere
right down to the scruffy man in the park trying to entice young children
with a pocket full of sweets or something like "would you like to see the
puppies my dog has just had etc......
Although this thread is dealing with paedophilia among the 'elite' classes
(LOL!! if ever there was a misnomer)

They exert their power by abusing the powerless. Their victims are voiceless. When they speak up no one listens to them because society as a whole places little value on them in the first place. If you are a child in a children's home, it's highly unlikely you're parents are doctors or captains of industry. If you are a fourteen year old rent boy selling yourself to survive, guess what, mummy and daddy don't own the # heap you're right at the bottom of.

It is their positions or celebrity which give them the 'power' How often has
a victim been heard to say "who would have believed me"

Being a manager or a governor of a children's home was a 'gift; to a paedophile!!

I have often pondered a lenient sentence handed out to a paedophile by a judge
(someone of position who in the 'real world' should have been long retired ...
Favours from the like minded???

a reply to: Chiftel

The same thing I would expect from left wing politicians.

They are all the same. Its unbelievable that you would even make a distinction.

Anyone that thinks their preferred political leanings are unique or NOT the same manufactured crap as the other end of the spectrum is pretty naive and blind.

Why is everyone stunned about this? Because it's England? Leaders having sex with kids happens every day in many other industrialized modern countries. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why this story/rumor takes everyone by surprise.
cwm

originally posted by: carewemust
Why is everyone stunned about this? Because it's England? Leaders having sex with kids happens every day in many other industrialized modern countries. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why this story/rumor takes everyone by surprise.
cwm

Honestly I don't think anyone is stunned or surprised. I am pretty sure most of us come to expect this of our politicians. At least I certainly do.

So some politicians aid pimps kids to pedophiles and he's BLAMING the pedophiles. Ladies and Gentleman I give you the next president of the UN!

William Hague gone today as well - he's another "old boy" who was active in the Tory party back in those bad old days.

It looks to me like they're trying to break all ties with the past, or more specifically with the Tory party of the past that is embroiled in this.

So they can claim to be / look to be different "nowadays".

So what if the next big scandal is the ministers from the Labour party under Tony Blair - Operation ore, etc - most of those are still MPs today.

Then you'll have the "new" "squeaky clean" Tories, and the current "dirty pervert" Labour party.

It is the general election next year don't ya know!

Politicians are truly vile.

Totaly hilarious and sensational.. they hired 'very young boys' ??? i dont think these small boys biologically capable in having copulation with adults.. they dont even in puberty stage yet.. it sad to see such trash news-story on a widely read newssite..

a reply to: olaru12

I agree with everything you posted, in fact its kinda my point. The less power a government has the less the corporations can use the government as a tool to manipulate the masses (although you can never completely eliminate the problem).

The fact we have so much power in government is the root of the problem because even if you could take the corporations out of the equation it would be another groups such as the military, the church or organized crime that would end up controlling government.

The Corporations just happen to be the group that won this time.

i think the whole news was posted before some kind of election or someting, to destroy certain people's reputation..

it is beyond belief that people in the goverment who hold the highest and most honorable post and tasked to lead the country would descent into the most depraved sin of child molestation. This is not hollywood and it's pedophile habits, this is politicians and leaders of the free world..

a reply to: monkofmimir

I agree with everything you posted, in fact its kinda my point. The less power a government has the less the corporations can use the government as a tool to manipulate the masses (although you can never completely eliminate the problem).

Your view seems to fly in the face of the reality of Globalisation. If what you claimed was actually the case which it just isnt then the world would never have had global free trade or the rise of Corporations to the point of power they are at today.

I ve just read many posters here claiming they do not want to see this thread politicised however you have done just that by trying to spread your pro libertarian views which make you nothing better than pro big money/corporate advocate.
So let me get this right from many of you here on ats its alright to make something political as along as its right wing its only when its left wing that it is politicising. Chiftin is not the only one trying to politicise this thread. Double standards!!

a reply to: 74joff

I am talking about my opinion as to the solution for the problem, not just blaming a group of people who hold a certain belief.

Child abusers and other undesirables exist of every political disposition.

As for your argument regarding globalisation and its causes, that really would be getting off topic although if you want to privately message me or start a new thread and message me the link I would quite happily debate you on that.

At no point have I said I’m in favor of corporations, big money lobbyists or people like that. In reality I dislike them a great deal and want to see these things done away with probably as much as you.

While you are correct in your assessment that I’m libertarian, your assumption that I must there for be right wing is faulty, libertarianism isn’t a exclusively left or right stance.

Just because the left has national socialism and communism doesn’t mean that it the only solution for societies ills on the left are more government.

Abuse of power is inevitable and obviously government is a concentration of power. I think however it is important to learn from these horrible events and discuss practical ways we can reduce the risks of things like this happening again. If we just shrug our shoulders mutter “what a shame this was” and change nothing, then those poor children suffered for nothing and we set our selves up for more suffering in the future.

I’ve looked through this thread and while you seem quick to jump upon the opinions of others, I cant find a post where you’ve expressed you opinion as to how we stop this from happening again.

If you have a better solution I’m happy to hear it.