Lost Ancient High Technology Of Egypt Before The Pharaohs Part 1 - 2 Brien Foerster

a reply to: skalla

Excellent post, skalla.

Harte

a reply to: DazDaKing

Hey I'm not gay, but are you single?

All joking aside thanks for the enlightening post.

a reply to: undo

It's a fantastic piece and no doubt the product of a master crafter. A huge amount of time and skill obviously went in to it and i expect that the workshop floor was littered with ones that just didn't make the grade as perfection was strived for. But no advanced machinery was required to make it - doubtless there are all sorts of jigs, tools and techniques that were used that we no longer know about that in them selves would be mind blowing to an enthusiast, but it's amazing what can be achieved with things like pole-lathes and pump drills (etc) with the right shaped drill bits and disks attached to them.

Power tools rarely allow us to make craft work that would have been impossible in times past, they typically just reduce the time and sweat required to finish a task.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: undo

It's a fantastic piece and no doubt the product of a master crafter. A huge amount of time and skill obviously went in to it and i expect that the workshop floor was littered with ones that just didn't make the grade as perfection was strived for. But no advanced machinery was required to make it - doubtless there are all sorts of jigs, tools and techniques that were used that we no longer know about that in them selves would be mind blowing to an enthusiast, but it's amazing what can be achieved with things like pole-lathes and pump drills (etc) with the right shaped drill bits and disks attached to them.

Power tools rarely allow us to make craft work that would have been impossible in times past, they typically just reduce the time and sweat required to finish a task.

Your previous post on the stone types involved was spot on. One modern example is the carving of ivory magic or puzzle balls, which take great skill and a long time time.[allegedly]

Ball

a reply to: Hanslune

Hmm, that's just the work of the devil. Brrrr.

a reply to: Harte

From your source

Precipitation-induced weathering is seen on the body of the Sphinx and in the ditch or hollow in which it is situated. This gives a rolling and undulating vertical profile to the weathered rocks and is very well-developed and prominent within the Sphinx enclosure. The rocks displaying this mode of weathering also often contain prominent vertical crevices and other solution features, as well as cross-cutting diffusion fronts.[6] Many of the vertical and inclined solution features follow joints and faults in the bedrock.

Of the four modes of weathering listed above, some rocks may show one mode overlain by another-thus, in particular cases, the various modes of weathering may be somewhat difficult to sort out. On the whole, however, they are clear and distinct from one another at the Giza site.
What is interpreted as precipitation-induced weathering is the oldest predominant weathering mode identified on the Plateau. It is found to any significant degree on only the oldest structures there, such as on the Sphinx body and the walls of the Sphinx enclosure. Of course, it still rains at Giza on occasion, and thus precipitation-induced weathering can be said to exist on all structures on the Plateau to some small degree; here we are talking in generalities and attempting to look at the broad picture. In many places this precipitation-induced weathering mode has superimposed upon it wind-induced weathering. Presumably the major portion of this precipitation-induced weathering occurred prior to the onset of the current and regime exhibited at Giza (i.e., prior to the modern climatic regime of the Sahara Desert).

On the Sakkara Plateau, some ten miles (sixteen kilometers) to the south of Giza, there are fragile mud-brick structures, mastabas, that are indisputably dated to the First and Second dynasties-presumably several hundred years earlier than the standard dating of the Sphinx-that exhibit no evidence of the precipitation-weathering features seen in the Sphinx enclosure. As noted above, well-documented Old Kingdom tombs at Giza, cut from the identical sequence of limestones as the body of the Sphinx, exhibit well-developed wind-weathering features, but lack significant weathering which is precipitation-induced. For these reasons it can be concluded that the well-developed precipitation-weathering features seen on the Great Sphinx and its associated structures predate Old Kingdom times and, in fact, may well predate dynastic times altogether.

So if the water erosion was there before the wind erosion that means it occurred before the Sahara was a desert climate and taking into account that mud-brick mastabas from the first and second kingdoms show no evidence of erosion from rain one would logically assume that the sphinx with its predominate precipitation erosion would predate dynastic egypt.

a reply to: BGTM90

One item Schoch didn't examine in his 22 year old study was the effect of water drainage off the Giza plateau which due to the causeways may have been directed into Sphinx enclosure, this would have brought high volumes of water highly laden with sand into to the area. When looking at his study it is a good idea to look at the criticism of his study done by other Geologists. Such as

Comments from 1994

Comments from 1994

Notes from 1994

Comments from 2000

The main three problems with attempting to determine erosion on the Sphinx are:

1. We don't know the erosion rates over thousands of years x that specific types of limestone in Y environment
2. The amount of rain fall that may have fallen at x times and the effects of the Nile flood on the plateau
3. The run off pattern for the Giza plateau for the thousands of years it was the center of the Necropolis

originally posted by: BGTM90
a reply to: Harte

From your source

Show me where he calculates a date from this (now obsolete) information.

Harte

a reply to: DazDaKing
I had a nice, long explanatory post but the power flickered last night and I lost it.

As usual, it was (of course) the greatest post ever posted by any poster on Earth.
I'm not going back to the details, but I'll link you to the C14 dating of the Great Pyramid (the more recent one) link1
The G.P. dates are about a third of the way down, in the appendices.
That pdf reports on a huge number of samples taken at a many Old and Middle Kingdom sites.

Next, an article about the estimation done by DMJM: Link2

That's an article for a trade mag written by a participant, it's not the full report. It does, however, provide the assumed methods and the final results of the study.

This addresses some of Schoch's claims (and claims made by other people): Link3

The Khufu Cartouches in the relieving chambers and the false claim that originates with Zechariah Sitchin that they were forged: link4
BTW, there's a LOT of stuff at that site.

Erosion of the Sphinx and enclosure: link5

That's enough for now.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Lets not forget my favorite



Goyon and Ginsells builders mark. Khufu’s name on backing stones found in 1947. Grinsell and Goyon noted this crew's name on Khufu pyramid located on an exposed core blocks (although Goyon provides an illustration): 4th course, west face, 71st stone on leaving the north angle.

From Egyptian Pyramids, Leslie Valentine Grinsell

dang this topic is interesting.

a reply to: Harte

is this doernenburg.alien.de...
the same thing as this?

Since we are discussing the graffiti it might be useful to see all the drawings that there are


Go to the site below and then click on the third tab from the left, labelled 'Vollansicht' this will allow you to scroll thru all the images of the relieving chambers.


Details of the graffiti in the relieving chambers - images

a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you! Finally some one provides evidence that I can examine. I'm open minded on the subject and not afraid to admit I was wrong. I just got super busy with work but I will read though these. Again thank you.

originally posted by: BGTM90
a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you! Finally some one provides evidence that I can examine. I'm open minded on the subject and not afraid to admit I was wrong. I just got super busy with work but I will read though these. Again thank you.

Certainly my pleasure, there was a long debate on this within the geologists' world-often deeply veiled by their jargon. AFAIK the consensus came down against it.

a reply to: JamesTB

If the Egyptians were so advanced, why didn't they build any bathrooms?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

is this doernenburg.alien.de...
the same thing as this?

That is a different cartouche drawing, but it's the same guy - Khufu.

Harte

originally posted by: mattsawaufo
a reply to: JamesTB

If the Egyptians were so advanced, why didn't they build any bathrooms?

Well they did - kinda

By 2500 B.C. the Egyptians were pretty adept with drainage construction, accentuated by the significance that water played in their priestly rituals of purification and those affecting the burial of the kings. According to their religion, to die was simply to pass from one state of life to another. If the living required food, clothing and other accoutrements of daily life, so did the dead. Thus, it's not surprising that archaeologists have discovered bathrooms in some tombs. Excavators of the mortuary temple of King Suhura at Abusir discovered niches in the walls and remnants of stone basins. These were furnished with metal fittings for use as lavatories. The outlet of the basin closed with a lead stopper attached to a chain and a bronze ring. The basin emptied through a copper pipe to a trough below. The pipe was made of 1/16" beaten copper to a diameter of a little under 2".

Link

You do know that you can't carbon date stone, right? Archaeologists can only carbon date organic material such as human remains or papyrus to determine the age of the civilization. a reply to: Harte

originally posted by: ConnekAnchi
You do know that you can't carbon date stone, right? Archaeologists can only carbon date organic material such as human remains or papyrus to determine the age of the civilization. a reply to: Harte

Yep he knows that,when they dated the AE structures they dated the carbon within gypsum mortar or other organic items found within those structures.

Other dating methods