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originally posted by: LibertyKrueger
originally posted by: dragonridr
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: mbkennel
If you sort of know where it is, then it's going to be moving around even at T=0.
So...can it emit phonons even in ground state/T=0?
A ground state is merely the lowest energy level an atom can have. Doesn't mean there is no energy. with an atom say we have an electron we add to much energy it flies off. This is what we call ionization. Now electron does not have to be in a particular place or energy level.An electron state is a superposition of states of definite energy level (energy eigenstates).Now even in a ground state an atom has potential energy. Let's say I set a glass of water in a cup and place it on the table. That water will sit there forever until something perturbed it such as us shaking the glass. Now the water is no longer in its lowest energy state.
Now atoms are the same way if nothing perturbs the electron in to excited energy eigenstate, then it simply will never decay it sits there becausr energy eigenstates are stationary; they do not evolve into anything other than themselves.But here's the catch being completely without external perturbation is actually impossible. The uncertainty principle provides the electromagnetic field with vacuum fluctuations. Meaning even our electron in our atom is constantly being shaken up even in its lowest energy state.
Actually, I think it's the other way around. That the vacuum fluctuations of the EM field are driven by the motions of matter rather than those fluctuations being primarily responsible for matters motions. The reason that I think that matters motions are primarily internally driven is because of the reported increase of internal frequency as the temperature of matter approaches absolute zero. As the outer structure of matter is being prevented from moving, it provides a more solid surface against which the internal deflections of the masses momentum take place. This increases the effective rebound energy of that internal deflection thereby increasing the frequency of those motions by eliminating the deflective losses that moving the external particle structure would impart.
It would help if you cited the research you're talking about, but since you didn't, let me take a guess and you can cite other research if this isn't what you're talking about.
originally posted by: LibertyKrueger
The reason for the question is due to an anomaly I came across in some published works that seem to indicate that the vibrational frequencies of matter are slowing very slightly over time. If that's the case, then it might need to be accounted for by changing or revising our assumptions about what is driving those motions.
originally posted by: mbkennel
originally posted by: Bedlam
originally posted by: mbkennel
If you sort of know where it is, then it's going to be moving around even at T=0.
So...can it emit phonons even in ground state/T=0?
No, not propagating ones which carry off energy to infinity. (it is in the ground state after all).
The state of electromagnetism is a function (quantum mechanical wavefunction) of functions (the E&B fields), which has certain requirements imposed upon it which use Planck's constant such that when you make a modal expansion in some function basis you sum up elementary terms, each one of which, is called a 'photon', and if the photon has a definite frequency it has a proportional energy and momentum and there is a minimum non-zero amplitude.
Everything is made out of stuff obeying laws of quantum field theory, as far as we can tell. Particles are the 'expansion' of the quantum fields in some useful quantum mechanical bases.
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: darkorange
I suppose the answer depends on whether or not you believe string theory, (or M-theory), or should I call it "string hypothesis"? It's never been proven but a popular version says there are 11 dimensions, and there are other hypotheses that have different numbers of dimensions. Space-time has four dimensions that we know of, but I don't think anybody is sure about the extra seven dimensions, or whatever number of extra dimensions is in a particular hypothesis.
originally posted by: mbkennel
a) There is an electric field in the direction of oscillation. It's vector direction is static (unchanging with time), so there is no *radiation* in the direction looking straight on the oscillation.
b) The dynamics of the electric and magnetic field are not the same as mechanical strings.
The field lines are partial representations of the vector field, which is a vector at every point in space, the same way that contour lines on a geophysical plot are representations of the scalar elevation field. They are graphical shortcuts, not physical objects.
The state of electromagnetism is a function (quantum mechanical wavefunction) of functions (the E&B fields), which has certain requirements imposed upon it which use Planck's constant such that when you make a modal expansion in some function basis you sum up elementary terms, each one of which, is called a 'photon', and if the photon has a definite frequency it has a proportional energy and momentum and there is a minimum non-zero amplitude.
originally posted by: mbkennel
The state of electromagnetism is a function (quantum mechanical wavefunction) of functions (the E&B fields), which has certain requirements imposed upon it which use Planck's constant such that when you make a modal expansion in some function basis you sum up elementary terms, each one of which, is called a 'photon', and if the photon has a definite frequency it has a proportional energy and momentum and there is a minimum non-zero amplitude.
Physics used to be called Natural Philosophy, for good reason. I suggest you study it. The concepts and assertions of truth generally accepted cannot be adequately conveyed by linguistic means alone. The description of the photon above is pretty much jibberish unless you have experience with the mathematics and physics that it refers to.
I wonder if you're lazy.
originally posted by: KrzYma
a reply to: mbkennel
The state of electromagnetism is a function (quantum mechanical wavefunction) of functions (the E&B fields), which has certain requirements imposed upon it which use Planck's constant such that when you make a modal expansion in some function basis you sum up elementary terms, each one of which, is called a 'photon', and if the photon has a definite frequency it has a proportional energy and momentum and there is a minimum non-zero amplitude.
is it ? Or is it more that the functions are mathematical constructs trying to visualize how it could look like.
Another way to see the EM field and it's E and M interactions is without any chunkiness in it.
Fluid like, where the field is the fluid and the E and B forces are pressure like effects.
Everything is made out of stuff obeying laws of quantum field theory, as far as we can tell. Particles are the 'expansion' of the quantum fields in some useful quantum mechanical bases.
well NO!
The theory of yours is limited to chunkiness, uncertainty and a constant speed C which are
imperative for it to work.
Reality is not obeying any laws of quantum field theory ! Quantum field theory is describing at it's best ques what reality is.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
originally posted by: mbkennel
a) There is an electric field in the direction of oscillation. It's vector direction is static (unchanging with time), so there is no *radiation* in the direction looking straight on the oscillation.
But if the electric field, or vector, is attached the the particle; and the particle is moved, will not the electric field or vector be moved in that direction?
I suppose first we must ask, or perhaps this has something to do with the nature of electron spin but; if an electron exists in free space; Can we agree that you as an entity, can approach the electron from 'all surrounding angles'? You can be above the electron, you can be below it, you can be on 360 degrees of its sides, and all possible other angles one can surround a point? From this comprehension, if you were to put the electron into motion in separate trials, from each possible angle of approach, to an ultimate frame of reference, is the ensuing EM radiation, created and propagated exactly the same when the electron is approach and accelerated in separate trials from every possible angle?
They are not the same as mechanical strings, but there must be some physical substance, and mechanical mechanism, as to how this function of reality occurs. An electron existing in free space, what is it attached too that allows it to propagate EM radiation; is the electric and magnetic field a densely packed medium of photons?
There must be some substance there, or energy if you want to call it that, some non nothing to be most clear.
The electron exists, there must exist surrounding it, non electron, but non nothing, which when the electron is shaken, the non nothing the electron is attached to, is also shaken, and this is what is detected as EM radiation. The non nothing that the electron is attached to, that you term the electric and magnetic field line system or field or vector or scaler, must be something that exists. It must at every point in space (potentially, depending on how densely packed it is... of course it most likely is not so densely packed that an volume of few planck lengths of average energy density is isotropic) so like all things, there might be a gradient, a meshing, a webbing, a netting, a fielding. A bath tub of still water for example, would we say there is a non 0 value point every where in the volume? Or would we admit that when we zoom in there is real nothing space in between actual substantial particles of mass and energy, and so it cannot be said every point in the volume is of equal value? Likewise, the electron existing in free space, it is attached to a non nothing substance, which when the electron is moved, it moves, and in this way its movement can be detected and termed EM radiation. Prior to the electron being approached and moved, can the non nothing space surrounding the electron, attached to the electron, that moves when the electron is moving, can that local volume of space (I am not referring to any substance of space, other than the substance medium responsible for being detected as EM radiation), so I shall say can the local volume of substance which is responsible for being detected as EM radiation, be said to have equal value at all planck points prior to the electrons acceleration?
This is what i mean when I ask, what is the average energy density of the undisturbed EM field
and because you and science doesnt know,
The state of electromagnetism is a function (quantum mechanical wavefunction) of functions (the E&B fields), which has certain requirements imposed upon it which use Planck's constant such that when you make a modal expansion in some function basis you sum up elementary terms, each one of which, is called a 'photon', and if the photon has a definite frequency it has a proportional energy and momentum and there is a minimum non-zero amplitude.
originally posted by: LibertyKrueger
The reason for the question is due to an anomaly I came across in some published works that seem to indicate that the vibrational frequencies of matter are slowing very slightly over time. If that's the case, then it might need to be accounted for by changing or revising our assumptions about what is driving those motions.
originally posted by: Arbitrageur
It would help if you cited the research you're talking about, but since you didn't, let me take a guess and you can cite other research if this isn't what you're talking about.
originally posted by: LibertyKrueger
If atomic frequencies are slowing...
So if we aren't seeing much of a change in the temperature of stars over the last 200 years, which is a function of the fine structure constant, and as far as I know, we aren't, then if the speed of light varied at all in the last 200 years, it can't be by very much. What I think are the most plausible ideas for speed of light changing relate to time scales at the birth of the universe, and we will need more measurements to confirm or rule out such claims but to my knowledge the most accurate measurements show the fine structure constant is pretty constant, meaning very tight limits have been placed on how much it could have changed.
What would it mean to say that c varied with time? Would it actually mean anything? In conventional units, the metre is defined as the distance that light travels in about 3 nanoseconds. (This is not quite the same thing as saying that the metre is the distance travelled in 1/c seconds.) Suppose that we calibrate marks on a ruler using this definition one year, then next year find that light takes longer than 3 ns to travel the length of the ruler. According to the definition, we wouldn't say that the speed of light had fallen, but that the ruler had lengthened. How could that be? What would that mean?
Now the size of the ruler depends upon the size of atoms, which in turn is related (in our units) to quantum mechanical and electrical quantities. Could the atoms in the ruler have grown because electricity had faded, or because Planck's constant had increased? How would we know which?
Time, space, electricity and quantum mechanics
Our imaginary experiment shows that electrical and quantum effects are inter-related. Charge is carried by electrons and protons, which are subject to (quantum) mechanical laws. It is meaningless to talk of changes in an electromagnetic constant or a quantum mechanical one alone. Asking whether the speed of light changes over time superficially appears to be a reasonable question: it makes grammatical sense. But it doesn't make scientific sense. In science, a proposition must be, in principle, testable. (For instance, if you propose that there is an invisible gorilla in the room, and that she has no mass and no effects that can be detected, then your proposition is not a scientific one.)
The fine structure constant, α
So is there something that physicists can measure for which a change over time would have meaning? Yes, there is. Any quantity that doesn't have units can be measured as a ratio. For example, the fine structure constant α is a measure of the relationship between electromagnetic effects and quantum effects and it has no units.
Because it has no units, we can think of it as a ratio. Here is a simple explanation: In the Bohr-de Broglie-Sommerfeld model of the hydrogen atom, an electron 'orbits'* a proton, 'travelling' in a circle at 'speed' vH. In this picture, the fine structure constant
α = vH/c
and takes a value close to 1/137. (There are few pure numbers in physics, and so the number 137 is especially memorable for physicists.) Let's look at more basic expressions for α later. For now, let's ask:
Has the fine structure constant changed over time?
The obvious answer is "not much, or we should have noticed it". The temperature of stars (including the sun) is a strong function of α, so even a modest change would have been very observable.
originally posted by: ImaFungi
They are not the same as mechanical strings, but there must be some physical substance, and mechanical mechanism, as to how this function of reality occurs. An electron existing in free space, what is it attached too that allows it to propagate EM radiation; is the electric and magnetic field a densely packed medium of photons? There must be some substance there, or energy if you want to call it that, some non nothing to be most clear. The electron exists, there must exist surrounding it, non electron, but non nothing, which when the electron is shaken, the non nothing the electron is attached to, is also shaken, and this is what is detected as EM radiation. The non nothing that the electron is attached to, that you term the electric and magnetic field line system or field or vector or scaler, must be something that exists. It must at every point in space (potentially, depending on how densely packed it is... of course it most likely is not so densely packed that an volume of few planck lengths of average energy density is isotropic) so like all things, there might be a gradient, a meshing, a webbing, a netting, a fielding. A bath tub of still water for example, would we say there is a non 0 value point every where in the volume? Or would we admit that when we zoom in there is real nothing space in between actual substantial particles of mass and energy, and so it cannot be said every point in the volume is of equal value? Likewise, the electron existing in free space, it is attached to a non nothing substance, which when the electron is moved, it moves, and in this way its movement can be detected and termed EM radiation. Prior to the electron being approached and moved, can the non nothing space surrounding the electron, attached to the electron, that moves when the electron is moving, can that local volume of space (I am not referring to any substance of space, other than the substance medium responsible for being detected as EM radiation), so I shall say can the local volume of substance which is responsible for being detected as EM radiation, be said to have equal value at all planck points prior to the electrons acceleration? This is what i mean when I ask, what is the average energy density of the undisturbed EM field, and because you and science doesnt know, your new favorite quantum trick when you dont know something is to convince yourself that that means the universe doesnt know either, so you say because we cannot answer your inquiry, we must say that the substance which must exist obviously, does not actually exist, and we must call it virtual photons, and then pretend like we dont know and/or actually not know what you are talking about.