Has the 2012 hoax killed ufology?

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: BlueMule

Scammers , sci-fi and various governments who used the myth to cover their own black projects. Go watch the video 'mirage men'.

I've seen it. It's very interesting. But it has no bearing on the thrust of my argument.

People use myth, and myth uses people. We are dealing with a mystery paranormal source that lies behind all the mythology and religion of all cultures past and present. It creates and destroys myth again and again, and the 'Scammers , sci-fi and various governments' are just caught in its game.

One of the problems with the way people approach this topic is the way they abuse the word myth. They use it as a synonym for falsehood, but that isn't the way a scholar uses it. It's more like a code.

I think it is a combo of the last decade of personal media exploding, making the subject more accessible to the mildly interested, then the mildly interested pollute the media with their lame-ass hoaxes... coupled with the popularity of the subject as a whole thru shows like ancient aliens...making the whole subject more of a curiosity than a real subject of study...

The same amount of serious events that may be authentic have probably not gone up... just awareness coupled with obscurity thru hoaxes increasing...

a reply to: PhoenixOD

Scammers , sci-fi and various governments who used the myth to cover their own black projects. Go watch the video 'mirage men'.

That's a good suggestion. We have watched it.

governments who used the myth to cover their own black projects.

They had to learn that from somewhere, right?

The question is: "what are they trying to mimic".

The method comes from somewhere much older, and they (governments, scammers) have learned to turn it in to a tool that produces predictable results.

Like the experiment on Facebook.

I always like to compare things to bigfoot, as that is my interest and where I am most knowledgeable concerning strange subject matter. I am not convinced UFO's are alien entities by any means, just to give you my perspective. Anyway, I relate this to bigfoot because the types of evidence are often the same. By far the greatest evidence comes in the form of eyewitness testimony, which will never be scientific proof. Then there is physical evidence, including videos, tracks and casts of those tracks, hair samples, etc... Even physical, DNA tested evidence, has not been enough. In the case of bigfoot two major studies have been at the forefront, one concluding that bigfoot are much closer to humans than any other apes. The Sykes study is basically throwing out anything resembling human DNA as contaminated or belonging to a human, which is why it will never get anywhere. That's just an FYI, but unrelated, and also the evidence for bigfoot will be found in the nuclear DNA, as the mitochondrial DNA is basically human, but again I digress. So when I apply what I have learned in that field to what seems to be occurring in ufology, I get the impression that you guys are spinning your wheels so to speak.

IF these are intelligent alien entities that you are researching and investigating, then you have that working against you considering they apparently do not wish to be identified or made known to the general public. And on top of that, certain echelons within the government might not wish for the general public to have such knowledge anyway. So finding proof is going to be next to impossible, and then to top it all off, IF proof is found who is to say that it will not be whisked away and swept under the rug?

From what I gather many ufologists believe in a government coverup as well as alien entities who do not wish to be made known. So if that is true then what does anyone hope to accomplish? I completely understand where some people are coming from. They have a sighting of something they cannot explain, and they wish to delve into it more. Human nature. But the one time I saw a giant hairy biped I got lucky, and that hairy biped, while possessing some form of intelligence, has only the forest to aid it in its elusiveness. Aliens have high technology, or so it would be expected. I am not saying give up, because that would be impossible for many, and probably downright foolish. Just because we cannot answer a question or know much about something does not mean we shouldn't ask the questions or give up our attempts to bring certain issues to the attention of others.

But what I am saying is that one must not obsess over such a thing. Now to get to the point of your question, there are going to be highs and lows in any field of this nature. But are public beliefs regarding UFO's shifting in some way? I think your average person, someone who may believe that these are ET's, or may believe in the possibility that UFO's are ET related, have realized what I stated earlier. That things are not progressing. It is almost circular. This will detract from the ranks a bit. Or maybe the aliens have been taking a break, lol. Or perhaps fewer people are bringing their stories forward. There are a plethora of possible explanations. But if one is truly interested in the field, keep at it. If there is something there the evidence will eventually come. Who knows how long it will take, but it will come. And in the case of UFO's, there MUST be an explanation, just as with bigfoot.

Even if that explanation is natural phenomena, there must be an explanation. And both of these fields are worthy of study, even if just to understand the psychology of humans to a better degree. But like many who know what they saw, I sympathize.

a reply to: uninfluenced

2012 was like a big net, that gathered all of the charlatans and shut them up when nothing happened.

It's quieter, but it's a more truthful field because of it.

Wanna have fun?

Watch this all the way through...



Then revisit the Paul Bennewitz story...

Driving Mr. Bennewitz Insane

a reply to: BlueMule

One of the problems with the way people approach this topic is the way they abuse the word myth. They use it as a synonym for falsehood, but that isn't the way a scholar uses it. It's more like a code.

Just like people abuse the acronym UFO to try to infer visiting aliens.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: BlueMule

One of the problems with the way people approach this topic is the way they abuse the word myth. They use it as a synonym for falsehood, but that isn't the way a scholar uses it. It's more like a code.

Just like people abuse the acronym UFO to try infer visiting aliens.

Yeah, pretty much. UFO automatically means aliens, and myth automatically means lie. People don't understand the true nature of either. So they are doomed to failure before they even start. They are already caught in the story. You can't free yourself with the tools and elements of the very story you are caught in.

Vladimir Propp, literary theorist, thought that Russian folktales could be seen as variations of a few underlying plot elements. Generally, a preliminary situation is followed by "misfortune or lack" and then by a sequence of events that repairs what misfortune or lack disturbed. The trickster figure mischief-maker and thief is one of the prime movers of the narrative. He gets the story moving and it comes to an end when he and his mischief have been dealt with.

There are only a few ways to deal with the trickster. A limited number of plots. From the threshold there are only a few ways the trickster can move. He can come inside, he can leave entirely, or he can stay exactly where he started, resisting all attempts to civilize or exile. From the tricksters point of view, staying on the threshold is the ideal. It gives us the plot that never resolves, the endlessly strung-together Coyote tales each linked to each with the phrase "Coyote was going along..."

Awakened consciousness is the potential end of the narrative, without it the tale can go on and on, another night, another season...

"Coyote was going along..."

What 2012 Hoax? You didn't mention it which is odd since its featured in the title of the post. Troll much?
a reply to: uninfluenced

The lack of evidence to support alien visitations, accessibility to technology and sources to test/check claims and prove they are hoaxes and the repetitive nature of said hoaxes and claims have made UFOlogy boring. No doubt most of the major/interesting cases are either hoaxes or misidentification related to government testing of military tech.

There's a high probability that there may be other life out there. Whether any have evolved into intelligent or complex civilizations is less likely and we simply don't know yet. This has nothing to do with a lack of "awakening" or other new-age metaphysical garbage.....

originally posted by: LogicalRazor
The lack of evidence to support alien visitations, accessibility to technology and sources to test/check claims and prove they are hoaxes and the repetitive nature of said hoaxes and claims have made UFOlogy boring. No doubt most of the major/interesting cases are either hoaxes or misidentification related to government testing of military tech.

There's a high probability that there may be other life out there. Whether any have evolved into intelligent or complex civilizations is less likely and we simply don't know yet. This has nothing to do with a lack of "awakening" or other new-age metaphysical garbage.....

Case in point.

"Coyote was going along..."

a reply to: BlueMule

What I get from what you're inferring, is more speculation and philosophy, than insight. Every important discovery man has made (And is making), was possible because we took a scientific and logical approach.

a reply to: uninfluenced

At the risk of embarrassing myself, I'll offer up the George Noory answer to that question, i.e., that a great many of the UFO researchers who uncovered and promoted up stories as you've mentioned, today, they're all either too old to carry on or have passed on. No one's picked up the torch. And it isn't because there isn't anything going on. Sightings are at an all time high. The government controlled MSM isn't carrying the stories per orders from headquarters. And there doesn't seem to be any youngsters who've stepped up to the plate and do thorough investigation.

I made the statement that sightings are at an all time high. That's based upon comments made by Peter Davenport who tracks sightings every day. His website is at www.nuforc.org...
Other than his recent comment, I don't have any other proof that sightings are at an historic highs, but Davenport seems convinced.

I've postulated, based upon the manner in which the sightings are recounted by reportees that people have seen so much they've become some what jaded to the whole phenomenon. I further postulate that's a function of the Denver "lights"/triangular shaped craft sighting made by thousands of people in and around Denver. People seem to have concluded that 1) yes we're being visited/observed and possibly tested on by Space Alien species and that 2) the craft observed are a mix of theirs and ours, like the Lockheed TR3B Astra which is said to be the Air Force replacement for the SR71 Blackbird.

a reply to: TonyS

The government controlled MSM isn't carrying the stories per orders from headquarters

On the contrary , the MSM reports practically anything that even remotely looks like a UFO these days.

Reports might be at a high but so are miss identifications.

If only there was a camera behind the moon w/live feed
IInd

a reply to: uninfluenced

Even over the last decade theres always been SOMETHING, be it chicago ohaire airport, the `norway spiral` the `ufo knocking over windspiral in the uk` weird crop circles, the `turkish aliens in ufo`

The norway spiral was most liklley a rocket, the ufo knocking over windspiral in the uk could have been a drone test or more likely ice on the blades, all crop circles are hoxes. But i dont know about the other two. The chicago ohaire airport was quite interesting.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: uninfluenced

Even over the last decade theres always been SOMETHING, be it chicago ohaire airport, the `norway spiral` the `ufo knocking over windspiral in the uk` weird crop circles, the `turkish aliens in ufo`

The norway spiral was most liklley a rocket, the ufo knocking over windspiral in the uk could have been a drone test or more likely ice on the blades, all crop circles are hoxes. But i dont know about the other two. The chicago ohaire airport was quite interesting.

"Most likely" .... "could have been" ... "I don't know" .... "interesting".

It's words and phrases like that which keep ufology alive and endlessly intriguing.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I think what killed Ufology was the ufo-conference scammers that have taken ufology, mixed it with new-age hoopla and then charge you $100 to attend their "lectures".

These scammers are trying to make a living off of it and since there are very few new developments in the field, they just lie and make stuff up.

But was ufology really anything more than that in the first place? Before the internet became mainstream these scammers where making a fortune as they were the only source of info in the subject. Coincidentally this was also the golden age of ufo sightings. Its no coincidence that since the internet has gone mainstream there have been almost no important sightings.

Well said!

I used to be really fascinated in "unexplained mysteries" when I was a kid in the 1980s. I devoured every book on UFOs, ghosts, the Bermuda Triangle etc etc in my local library.

But I always found the real explanations more interesting, and the more I looked the more I realised that just about all of them could be simply explained.

Nowadays, with the internet, I still have an interest but there are so many obvious fakes, so many hoaxers and scammers, and so many people who get taken in by the obvious same old tricks and accidents that have been around for decades: reflections, stickers in windows, lens flares etc.

Even the Chilean government "confirms" UFOs that turn out to be insects or even the moon! This latest "revelation" from the same bunch of amateurs (CEFAA) is no different.

It makes a mockery of the subject and makes me even more convinced that there was never anything to it.

Aliens are out there. A long way out there. Not here.

I think the thing killing ufology the most is increased volume with no better results. In the past, you'd get the occasional UFO report of grainy photo presented in a pulp book or magazine, or rarely in a local newspaper, and there was no way to analyze it yourself or know whether or not the reporter/investigator did a good job. Either way, the results were always the same -- INCONCLUSIVE.

These days, we get new UFO photos and reports daily from all over the world, with lots of first-hand details and images that you can analyze yourself. And the results? Still INCONCLUSIVE!

There used to be the idea that one of these days real soon we'll get a report and a photo that is just too good to be ignored, with maybe even some physical evidence to go along with it, and then everything would be revealed! Well, that's been going on since the mid-1960s. Since then, we have had mountains of photos and reports and even the occasional physical trace. And we're still no closer to getting "the answer" than we were in the mid-1940s.

At some point, then, a reasonable person is going to start to think that maybe it's all bunk, including some of the old "good" cases, that we just didn't have a lot of data on at the time. We know a lot more than we used to about the size of the universe, too, and how unlikely it is that "aliens" could exist in some way that we could understand them, or that they would be interested in visiting us.

People have come to realize that there has never been one single piece of good UFO evidence linking any UFO sighting or report with "aliens" of any kind. It all goes exactly nowhere. They're also realizing that "it couldn't be anything else but aliens" is a very bad and illogical argument, although some old school ufologist like Stanton Friedman still cling to it.

But hey. Maybe tomorrow something will happen that will prove it all. That would be nice. But it ain't happened yet. And kind of like finding other planets with signs of life on them, the longer we go without it happening, the more unlikely it seems and the more people lose interest. But that's to be expected when NOTHING EVER HAPPENS.