The Reincarnation of Marty Martyn - a Remarkable Case Study

I came across a fascinating case of alleged reincarnation that I wanted to share here on ATS. I didn't see it posted elsewhere after searching, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

I'm reading the book Return to Life: Extraordinary Cases of Children who Remember Past Lives. It was published in December 2013 by Jim Tucker, MD. Tucker worked under, and is now continuing the work of, Ian Stevenson. I am skeptical of reincarnation, but keeping an open mind and seeing where the evidence leads me.

The second story in this book was utterly shocking to me, and it was one I wasn't familiar with at all. I want to share with you all what I found to be the most compelling highlights from the book...

The child, Ryan, was recalling a life in Hollywood from a very young age. Ryan and his parents live in a small town in Oklahoma. The dad is a police officer and the mom is a county clerk deputy. They have Christian backgrounds and do not (did not, I should say) believe in reincarnation -- and in fact they wanted to stay anonymous and not go public with this story so as not to allow their local Baptist church in on this "secret". (The church, after the story came out, actually really supported the family... much to their relief.) I understand how cynical we often are when hearing these stories, and I am guilty of sometime assuming the worst myself... but keep in mind that his parents did not want any payment for sharing Ryan's story, and actually wanted to stay anonymous. They revealed their identity only when their son insisted because he didn't want them to be ashamed of his "Hollywood life". In reading their complete story in the above book, there was nothing that struck me as the parents influencing the child or trying to profit or get their "15 minutes" out of this.


Ryan often said things like "I used to be big, but now I'm little" and "I liked it better when I was big and I could go wherever and whenever I wanted to go. I hate being little." Whenever Ryan would see a picture of the Hollywood Hills on television, Ryan would say "That's my home!"

There are just way too many interesting details for me to get into here. From preschool age on, Ryan would say things that it seemed like he should have no knowledge of. For instance, Ryan asked his mom for a Tru Ade (a soft drink that was available in the 1940s, discontinued by the 1970s). He stories about Rita Hayworth and how she used to make him "coke floats". Just crazy things. It seemed at night that when his mom would give him a bath, Ryan would often start to get really upset - missing his Hollywood life and wanting to go back. He would often wake up, with nightmares about dying in Hollywood - grabbing his chest and saying that his heart exploded. He was always very clear that this was a "past life" he was talking about - even thought the concept of past lives had never been discussed in their Christian household. He even spoke of the time between his past life and when he choose to come back and choose his mom to be his mother.

Given Ryan's insistence on the reality of his past life, his mom (Cyndi) took him to the public library to get some books about Hollywood. Eventually, they came across a picture in a book from a 1932 movie called Night After Night. Ryan got very excited and said "That's George! We did a picture together. And mama, that guy's me. I found me." The book didn't list the six people in the picture, but Cyndi was later able to verify that the one Ryan pointed to as George was indeed George Raft - a film star of the 1930s and 1940s. Ryan described a scene in the movie that involved a closet full of guns.

That night, Cyndi found Night after Night on You Tube. There was indeed a scene with a closet full of guns. Ryan was only five at the time all this took place and had never even seen a black and white movie, and definitely never saw this one.

After all of this, Cyndi reached out to Jim Tucker for assistance in understanding what her son was experiencing and also hoping Dr. Tucker might have resources to help them piece together the mystery of who Ryan was in a past life. The mystery of who Ryan identified as himself in a former life continued for quite a while, even with the resources of Tucker and later a film crew interested in featuring Ryan's story in a pilot episode of UneXplained Mysteries. This process included a false lead (which Ryan always said wasn't right).

In the meantime, Ryan kept having dreams about "Senator Five." Senator Five seemed to be some kind of villain and he talked about an agency in New York. At this stage, Dr. Tucker and Ryan's mom weren't sure where "memories" ended and simple childhood fantasy began. It sounded like he was have dreams of being a secret agent and "Senator Five" in New York certainly sounded like a fictional character.

Ryan also started talking a lot about Broadway and doing a tap dance routine that he "remembered." He got very emotional when seeing film footage of Pearl Harbor. When Franklin Roosevelt was shown on screen, he boo'ed him... when his dad tried to shush Ryan, Ryan turned to his mom and said "Daddy doesn't know what an idiot that man is." Then he began muttering about "the damn Japs." When the film concluded, Ryan cried and stood applauding.

Then there was a big breakthrough in this case. They linked the photo Ryan had identified as myself to a man named Marty Martyn. At this point, Ryan had just turned 6 years old - so Dr. Tucker felt his memories of his previous life were starting to fade. Still, he wanted to take the opportunity to test Ryan and see if he could correctly identify pictures of people Marty would have known. The identify of Marty was kept secret, even from Ryan's parents, in a effort to ensure the results of the testing were as untainted as possible.

Here was the simple test they gave Ryan to verify that Marty Martyn was indeed the man he seemed to remember being in a former life. Ryan was given a line-up of four pictures. Only one of the four pictures was of someone Marty knew in his life.

Ryan was showed four pictures of young men, all carrying tennis rackets. One as Marty Martyn. Ryan picked up the picture of Marty and said he remembered it. He didn't seem to know how, but only that it looked familiar.

Dr. Tucker thought he had solved the "Senator Five" mystery. He showed Ryan four pictures and Ryan pointed to one with certainty and said "That's Senator Five!" It was actually a picture of Senator Ives, a US Senator for 12 years in New York in the 1940s and 50s.

Ryan saw a picture of Marty's family and seemed to recognized Marty's last wife, his 5 stepchildren, and his biological daughter. Ryan pointed to the older stepdaughter and told his mom "I used to talk to her and give her advice. She never wanted to listen to me. She had no respect."

Finally, Dr. Tucker brought in a list of typed out names - John Johnson, Willie Wilson, Robert Robertson, and Marty Martyn. He had Ryan's dad read the list of names to Ryan (he had the dad read the list rather than Dr. Tucker reading the list since Tucker already knew the "correct" name, but Ryan's dad did not.) Ryan said "no" after each name, but was silent after Marty Martyn. He then pointed to Marty's name and confirmed that was his choice.

(CONTINUED NEXT POST)

With identification made, Dr. Tucker was able to confirm that 90 of 102 specific references on his list which Ryan had made were verifiability accurate! Here are some of the facts about his previous life that Ryan had accurately and independently stated early in the investigation, before the real-life Marty Martyn was discovered:
-His mother had curly brown hair
-He talked a lot about a sister, three years younger than him
-He had a daughter, and there were other kids but he didn't think they were "his" (stepchildren)
-He liked to bring elaborate coloring books to his kids
-He drove a green car and his wife had a black car
-He traveled to Paris
-He was a smoker
-He had a house with a pool and pianos
-He liked to travel by boat ("I get to go on these big boats, were fancy clothes, and dance with pretty ladies")
-He hated cats and got severely scratched by one he was trying to help
-He got his daughter a dog, but she didn't like it
-He owned an agency (a talent agency!) with offices in New York
-He danced on Broadway with his sister before going to Hollywood
-The address of his house had a "rock" or "mount" in it as part of the street address (was actually Roxbury)
- He knew "Senator Five" from New York. There was a photograph discovered of Marty Martyn and Senator Ives of New York together!

There are many more--- the list goes on and on.

Ryan was actually able to meet his daughter from his previous life! She was just 8-years-old when Marty died. She verified much of what he said about his life as Marty. The meeting was actually a bit difficult for Ryan. He went into it determined to love his daughter... but when he arrived he became very shy and very quiet. Later, he became angry and expressed himself this way "She got old! Why didn't she wait for me?? She had the same face, but she didn't wait on me. She changed, her energy changed. I don't want to go back. I always want to keep this family."

(The distress over previously loved ones aging is apparently common in these cases, according to Dr. Tucker. But it helps people to move on when they see their loved ones have moved on as well.)

The meeting did seem to provide some psychological closure for Ryan as he talked less and less about his old life and seemed like he really wanted to focus on his current life.

There are also a couple of things Ryan appeared to get wrong or at least could not be verified:
- Marty Martyn died not from a "heart explosion" - but leukemia and a cerebral hemorrhage.
-He talked about a father who raised corn and died when Marty was a child - but this could not be confirmed... in part because investigators had only public records and a daughter who was 8 at the time of death to verify information.

Otherwise, the information Ryan gave on Marty was shockingly specific and accurate... and this is information about a pretty obscure person from the past, whose identify was very difficult to discover.

Before you think this is a definite case of reincarnation, here is an interesting complicating factor in interpreting Ryan's experience. He appears to have psychic ability. For example...
-He knew about a "third baby" that his grandma had in July that died (something his mom didn't even know about, until she called and asked her about it)
-Ryan would sometimes touch people's faces and say he needed to "feel their energy" He did that to his grandma and told her she was about to get chicken pox. Two weeks like she came down with shingles (an illness produced by the re-emergence of the chicken pox virus)
-When buying pool toys to take to his grandparents house, Ryan insisted they needed three "master blasters" for him and his cousin to play with. His mom said two were enough for two kids. Ryan said, but grandpa is going to break his cousin's before he even got to use it. His mom told him that his grandpa probably wouldn't even be getting in the pool. When they got to the grandparent's house, grandpa was in shorts and ready to swim. Before Ryan's cousin showed up, the grandpa accidentally broke the blaster! They needed a third, like Ryan said.
---The list of "psychic" moments with Ryan is endless... so I'll stop here. They were all verified with the grandparents and others who witnessed them. There are many more examples in the book if you are curious.


Phew! Sorry this is such a long-winded post! But I found the story absolutely fascinating and wanted to share as much detail as I could.

I mentioned this story caught the attention of a film crew. Ryan's story was actually made into the pilot episode of the biography series The UneXplained. I found the twenty second preview for it on YouTube here:


Here is how the biography channel describes the episode:

A five year-old boy from rural Oklahoma begins telling his mother extensive details about his past life. He says he lived in Hollywood during the 1930's, claiming to have been wealthy and having friendships with the likes of Rita Hayworth. After hearing her son give vivid details about an era no five year-old should know about, the mother checks out some library books about early Hollywood. When she showed her son the books, he paused on a page with a black and white film still that had no captions. Much to her surprise, her son points to a man in the photo and screams, "That's me! You found me mommy! That's me, and that's George!" The man he was pointing to was an actor and "George" later turned out to be George Raft in Paramount's 1932 film "Night After Night". This is the amazing story of a young family's emotional journey to unravel and understand what they believe to be their son's previous life identity.

source: tv.biography.com...


I wasn't able to find the entire episode, though.... nor have I ever seen the episode. I'd be interested to hear from anyone that saw this show if the facts on the show correlate well with the facts laid out in the book.

Here is a 2011 article from the Muskogee Phoenix, a local paper, about the case: www.muskogeephoenix.com...

So... Is this truly a case that verifies reincarnation as fact?

Or is it a case that actually is more likely the result of psychic ability being mistaken for reincarnation? (also a fascinating scenario!)

Or is this simply a very active imagination and very "lucky guesses" on the part of a child?

Or do you write this all off as pure fantasy and fabrication - and if so, where do you think the dishonestly lies? (The investigators? The parents?)

ATS community, I'd love to hear thoughts on this case.

How interesting. The dilemma you pose is exactly the one with which I've been grappling. He says he chose his present mother. Obviously if this were true, then others would also get to choose their current incarnations, imo. If so, why would anyone choose to be born as a woman in Saudi Arabia or North Korea? Did he ever say why he chose his mother? I've read other stories of reincarnation where the re-born person seems to keep the same nationality and culture of the previous life, and for some reason that doesn't sit right with me.

a reply to: VegHead

Awesome story! I love this stuff.

When I was a little kid, I often spoke of my past lives, most notably my Japanese memories. It horrified my mom for two reasons, one, her Christianity, and two, she hated the "Japs" and boasted how "God" gave America the "BOMB" because America is Christian and righteous, and blah, blah blah....

I also was somewhat psychic, and knew things and that also upset my mother.

For her the answer was to take me to church, to be oiled and shaken while creepy people spit on me, yelling in tongues, all to cast out my demons.

I strongly feel that if it weren't for religious fear and prejudice we would have more stories like this one.

a reply to: aboutface

The simple answer in my mind is that you choose those places in an attempt to spiritually progress quickly by deliberately picking a life that will most likely be filled with intense struggle.

In my opinion of course.

Brilliant case!
S/F

I'm pretty well convinced in reincarnation, and have been since I was a kid. This is an excellent example!

As for his psychic ability - perhaps that is something to do with having lived multiple lives - that as our soul advances, we are better able to use our latent abilities.

Thanks so much for posting. I'm going to order the book!!

originally posted by: aboutface
How interesting. The dilemma you pose is exactly the one with which I've been grappling. He says he chose his present mother. Obviously if this were true, then others would also get to choose their current incarnations, imo. If so, why would anyone choose to be born as a woman in Saudi Arabia or North Korea? Did he ever say why he chose his mother? I've read other stories of reincarnation where the re-born person seems to keep the same nationality and culture of the previous life, and for some reason that doesn't sit right with me.

Interesting question! I don't have the answer as to why he choose this particular woman to be his mother. It is possible he was looking for a simpler family life than the one we came from in a previous life.

Here is a quote from his mom in the newspaper article linked above:

“The show didn’t tell why he claims he came back and I feel like that’s an important message,” Cyndi said. “Ryan says that we all come back because we have lessons to relearn. Ryan said he had to come back because of greed and he didn’t put his family and love first.”

I was just looking back in the book right now to see if I could find an answer to your question. Ryan doesn't go into lot of detail in the book on this, but there is this...

One night, Ryan said he wanted to tell Cyndi what it was like when you die. He began describing an awesome bright light and said you should go to the light. He said everyone comes back and that he knew Cyndi before. He claimed he picked her to be his mother.

So it appears he already knew his mother??

a reply to: aboutface

If so, why would anyone choose to be born as a woman in Saudi Arabia or North Korea?

My understanding of the process is that it is between lives that we make the decision, with the help of 'guides' and teachers on the other side - because we determine what 'lessons' we still need to learn, or 'experiences' required to move on.

So, we make the choice even knowing that we won't remember "why" - but our Higher Self knows we have a "master plan," and stick to it. SOME lives are simply to help someone else, and that, too, is a between-lives conscious decision that is forgotten after we 'incarnate' again...

according to what I was taught by my teacher, even aborted babies simply return to the cycle, having known they were to be aborted - in order to help the mother or whoever learn something. They then choose a subsequent life, and so it goes.

(I've often wondered: if a woman who had an abortion for whatever reason early, later became pregnant, purposefully, and had and WANTED a full-term baby - is it possible that the child is the SAME soul it would have been if the first embryo had been brought full term?)

Anyway - so, choosing a life of "poverty" or hardship or disability or losses/suffering would be a sort of "gauntlet" thing - knowing we need to experience it to help our souls achieve 'mastery' and be ready to move on - to eventual permanent reunion with the Source. From there, we can CHOOSE to come back simply to help - this is, I think, what Jesus did - as well as Krishna, Ghautamah (sp?) Buddha, and every other 'avatar' type of legend/history.

a reply to: VegHead

Oh WOW. Thanks for posting that. I was busy typing while you posted it - so he said the reason is we need to learn lessons!!

My teacher said the same thing.

Awesome.

He was featured on a tv show called ghost inside my child on the Lifetime network.
They had a segment that featured someone who died on the Titanic, a child who perished in the Murray building in Oklahoma City and someone who died on Sept 11th in the trade center.

I remember the death of my most recent past life. I was a child who died in WWII London during a Nazi Air raid. I did on a playground. I remember seeing my mother (from that time period) and two of her friends talking on the side of the playground. I remember the clothing she wore. I heard the air raid siren and looked over to her ... she said 'keep playing, nothing ever happens' ... and then I blew up.

Reincarnation happens. I don' t know if it happens to everyone. But it happens.

I think my past life death explains why I am so strong in favor of self defense and a strong military .. and why I'm a bit of a prepper. The carry over from that life has shaped some of my thoughts in this one.

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
He was featured on a tv show called ghost inside my child on the Lifetime network.
They had a segment that featured someone who died on the Titanic, a child who perished in the Murray building in Oklahoma City and someone who died on Sept 11th in the trade center.

Thanks for the tip! I looked for this, but the episode I found was actually about a different child with Hollywood memories - named Eric.

Night after night, two year-old Eric would wake up screaming from a horrific dream about being crushed to death. However it was Eric's obsession with Hollywood that escalated to the point where they had to lock the doors.

www.imdb.com...
www.mylifetime.com...

I couldn't find one with Ryan and the Marty Martyn story. Do you happen to have a link?

It wouldn't surprise me if they did air a segment on this case. The film crew (according to the book) was from A & E, but they ended up broadcasting the show on the Biography channel... and the Lifetime Network is also tied to A & E. So I can see how they would maybe already have footage and a connection to this family and want to use Ryan's story on Ghost Inside my Child. I just couldn't find the episode when I looked.

These cases always fascinate me! I do hope though that we have a choice on whether or not we want to come back, because frankly, I would never want to come back here.

a reply to: Night Star

Hello NightStar!

Here is an answer from the woman who taught me:

"When we leave this life, does that mean we have successfully completed our soul contract and if we have, can we opt to staying longer (on the other side) if we so desire?"

When you take that proverbial 'last breath' and it is time to 'go home,' that act alone does not have anything whatsoever to do with the success of your soul contract. To die is only the transition that moves us to the place of evaluation. In that space we will review what our accomplishments were with regard to the agenda we created before our birth - the 'soul contract.'.

Every moment of every day will be reviewed and then this life will be weighed against all other lifetimes and whatever the course of your soul's journey has been. It is most certainly possible to succeeded in all areas of your chosen path; it is possible to fail in the attempts to survive painful experiences. There is no rule written that says you must be 100% successful every time.

If you choose to work from the other side for a longer period of time, that is up to you. Just a note that may help you understand why most don't choose to stay on the other side if they feel that there is work to be done. When we work from the physical plane everything increases sevenfold. We are able to achieve our goals much faster and in a much shorter time. I know when I say the word 'time' it raises a few eyebrows. You probably think I am saying that your life's journey is actually going faster. When you understand that in 'spirit' time does not exist, you will begin to see that the time spent here is just a blink of an eye, so to speak. The choice to stay, move on or reincarnate will be pretty much up to you.

There will always be some exceptions to that statement. Sometimes a soul will fail miserably and choose not to come back. Imagine their surprise when they wake up at the moment of their birth in another lifetime. If a soul does not show any reasonable and responsible judgment, there will always be a higher source that ensures that we don't make that mistake.

Not sure if that helps or not - it's a little vague, but I just thought I'd offer it up for you.

a reply to: VegHead

Here's an imdb link to the career of Marty Martyn. Never heard of him before, and I was interested if he had a Wikipedia page the kid could have looked at, and he doesn't. The kid may get a Wikipedia page before Martyn does (although that may be redundant):

www.imdb.com...

Marty Martyn was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1903. His birth name was Morris Kolinsky, and he was the son of Ukrainian-born parents, Philip and Rebecca Kolinsky. His father operated a clothes press in a tailor shop. Marty grew up in Philadelphia before moving with his younger sister, Florence, to New York, where, under the name Marty Kolinsky, he once lived in a brownstone apartment building at 108 West 69th St. Working as a dancer, he appeared in a Broadway production called "Gay Paree" in 1925. He only appeared in one film, "Night After Night," which starred George Raft.

So he or his parents could have gotten the George Raft mention here. And I wonder if the kid recognized his real name, Morris Kolinsky, when it was dangled at him.

originally posted by: aboutface
How interesting. The dilemma you pose is exactly the one with which I've been grappling. He says he chose his present mother. Obviously if this were true, then others would also get to choose their current incarnations, imo. If so, why would anyone choose to be born as a woman in Saudi Arabia or North Korea? Did he ever say why he chose his mother? I've read other stories of reincarnation where the re-born person seems to keep the same nationality and culture of the previous life, and for some reason that doesn't sit right with me.

Maybe because the purpose of our incarnation/reincarnation is not to have the easiest life possible, but for certain other reasons. You get to choose which scenario and which location and people you incarnate in/with that will fit that purpose. The women in Saudi Arabia and North Korea incarnated there for a specific purpose.

a reply to: VegHead

As a result of reading the Bible, I have also come to believe in reincarnation.

Edgar Cayce, who is reputed to have read the whole Bible every single day of his life, when asked about reincarnation in the Bible, said something to the effect of, 'it could be read into, and out of, the Bible'.

There is one verse Matthew 11:14, where after John the Baptist has been killed, the Son of God says a strange thing about John: 'And if ye are willing to accept it, this is Elijah, who is to come.' Note that even the Jews are expecting Elijah to return, and always leave a spare seat for him at Passover. I also suspect that Elijah will return as one of the Two Witnesses mentioned in Revelation.

Also the Scarlet Beast / Eighth Head from Revelation 17:8 & 11 from the Sea is described as 'who was, who is not and who yet shall be present'. This could be read as 'was [alive], is not [alive] and yet who shall be present [alive and well].

All of these, IMO, strongly suggest reincarnation...

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
He was featured on a tv show called ghost inside my child on the Lifetime network.
They had a segment that featured someone who died on the Titanic, a child who perished in the Murray building in Oklahoma City and someone who died on Sept 11th in the trade center.

Yeah, I did a thread on that show. Some great stories told by children remembering past lives.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


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To the OP, S&F! Great story!
For anyone who loves to read up on reincarnation, who is trying to decide if it's real, you should read the book,


And, for those Christians that are too closed-minded to even consider it, (I used to be one, too) this book answers a lot of questions:


For people just beginning on their journey of searching the topic of reincarnation, my I suggest the book, Life Without Guilt, by Hazel M. Denning, Ph.D is an excellent place to start! It's wonderful!

Thanks for posting this topic again. I think it's important to get this message out there to as many as possible.

And here is a free e-book that a member posted on my thread about reincarnation that answers questions:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Free PDF book downloadable. "BACK AGAIN"...really explains alot of how, why and when this happens. And it gives us other ways to interpret this all. Im a believer for sure. That show was really good as well....

BACK AGAIN by Larry Rich

www.kelvin-voicefromabove.com...

And here is an excellent video for all you hard core skeptics:

These types of stories both fascinate and instill me with intense fear. Reincarnation, especially our situation where it appears that memories are erased, seems like a never-ending repetitive form of torture or even "Hell."

Regarding reasons as to "why" I'm also not fond of opinions that some of us come here to be in effect object lessons for other people. Life is already cruel. That sounds perhaps even crueler a fate to exist just to serve as a lesson for somebody else.

Why not just take vocational empathy courses on the other side if this is what we're supposed to learn? Much more simple and a lot less painful than having to go through this over and over and over again. Or is it that only boneheads who don't get it are reincarnated?

More study needs to be done on the subject regardless of my opinion on the matter.

originally posted by: Night Star
These cases always fascinate me! I do hope though that we have a choice on whether or not we want to come back, because frankly, I would never want to come back here.

Agreed. If reincarnation is real I would never voluntarily come back to this planet.