Amendments to Trinity

originally posted by: RidgeWalker

The same person Who created in Genesis, died on the Cross, and came back on Pentecost.

No.

The same mind/thought/plan (logos) that Created in Genesis, also thought/planned (logos) the need for a Passover sacrifice on a stake/pole (NOT CROSS!); and the same mind/thought/plan (logos) also brought the ability for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (mind of God) in the minds of human beings beginning on Pentecost 31AD.

That mind/thought/plan (logos) is the mind/thought/plan of God the Father of Jesus/Joshua Christ. Only one being has eternally existed and is the "self existing ONE" El Shaddai (Almighty) Yahweh (Creator) Elohim (of the God family).

Jesus/Joshua Christ was the son of Yahweh Elohim, and is now the "first of the first-fruits of salvation" having entered into Elohim (immortal member of the family of God) as the eldest brother of all mankind that in time will become a part of the Elohim of God according to the perfect will of the Logos of Almighty God.

God Bless,

a reply to: Murgatroid

Elohim is a uni-plural word.

It is the name of the God family.

In the beginning there was only one member of Elohim (Yahweh). His plan (logos) calls for the creation over time of many children which will also bare the name Elohim. Just like you can have Mr. Smith (1 person) or the Smith family (100 people). Smith is this case would be a uni-plural word.

Currently Jesus/Joshua Christ is the only other member of Elohim. Having achieved salvation by the living of a life in the age of mankind's self rule without sin. He was the only being in all creation to have been born with the full mind of God dwelling within his human mind. And was in agreement with the mind of God in all things while on Earth (without sin). Currently there are 2 members of Elohim.

Soon, at the return of Jesus/Joshua Christ, 144,000 individual beings that lived and died in the age of mankind's self rule will be resurrected to eternal life as members of Elohim. Soon there will be 144,002 members of Elohim.

After the 1000 year reign of the Kingdom of God on Earth, under Jesus/Joshua Christ and the 144,000 member Kingdom. Those who lived and died in the millennium and achieved salvation, will be resurrected to eternal life as members of Elohim. After 1000 years there will be millions of members of Elohim.

After the resurrection of the millennial members. The Great White Thrown age will begin. All mankind that lived and died on Earth, without achieving salvation (measured outside the temple) will be resurrected to physical life a second time. This is the second life, of which one might experience the second death. After the 100 years of the Great White thrown age, God will resurrect all who achieved salvation in their second life to eternal life as members of Elohim. After the Great White Thrown age there will be billions of members of Elohim.

GEN 1:26
"Let Elohim (the God Family) create (over time) mankind in the image (character) of Elohim." - this is the entire purpose for the physical creation and physical mankind upon it!

uni-plural.

God Bless,

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: RidgeWalker

I don't understand what you're asking...

That you wouldn't think that Jesus was creating the world if there wasn't already the doctrine that he was of a "God" status, as it claims.

You wouldn't for one thing, have this often left out verse section in 1 John that by logic names Jesus as the Logos, that would force translating the first chapter of the Gospel of John to make it out as a person, rather than some sort of spirit of God, which it could just as easily mean, if you didn't already have the idea that it really meant, Jesus.

I feel about like a goat with a mouthful of Astroturf. ha!

Are you saying that, without a doctrine of a triune Godhead, one would be left thinking that Jesus was just a good man?

Are you drawing a distinction between A spirit of God, and God Himself, who is a spirit (substance)?

Are you saying that the conclusion is predetermined that Jesus was God, and other Scriptures are used as proof texts?

I'm not understanding what you're getting at...

The scriptures say nothing of a Trinity Creator God.It is a doctrines of men extrapolation. The creator God is "one".

The creator God IS Spirit not "a spirit".The essence of spirit means "life" not a "substance" or a being/ entity.The "Holy"(separated) Spirit IS the creator God.Man has life..the "spirit of man".The life of man will eventually die as ALL things that "live" in the physical realm because that is the "nature" of it's life.The Life of the creator God is infinite and cannot die.

The creator God "begat"a Son….a "seed" which is how ALL things grow.That "seed" was sown in the physical realm in a physical body in the man Yahoshua of Nazareth.Yahoshua said unless a seed is sown and dies it can produce no fruit and when it does it produce life abundantly.The Son is the "seed" of the Father.The "Son seed" is the first "born" (first FRUIT) of all creation.

The Son is NOT the creator God THE Father even though he is a Father of ALL of mankind as the 2nd Adam.The 1st Adam's life was the spirit of man…… the man of flesh of the physical realm that life will die.The 2nd Adam's life is the Spirit of the creator God born of the flesh but LIVES BY the Spirit and just as ALL mankind is born 1st of the 1st Adam so ALL mankind WILL be born of the 2nd Adam.The 1st Adam had to be first for the 2nd Adam to be the seed sown IN the flesh INTO the physical realm.
The physical realm is a matrix/womb where creation is being "conceived". Everything in the physical realm must die because it's life is not infinite.Infinite life is first conceived in the physical realm then "born" into the infinite realm of LIFE(spirit)…..the Kingdom of the creator God.

The words to describe this process are inadequate because they are trying to communicate something of another realm that CAN'T be perceived EXCEPT by observation through the physical realms limitation.The Kingdom of the creator God cannot be "observed" because it can only be experienced by being known.Mankind could only perceive the Kingdom of God "in their midst"…i.e.."action"(effects) that were caused in the Kingdom of the creator God however those are only on the "surface of the bubble .

That is why things caused in the Kingdom of God realm(what are called miracles) are "perceived" as breaking the law of physics of the physical realm.Those causes come from inside and outside the bubble where the "laws" of physics are not limited to the Laws"of 4 dimensions which of course mankind can only "perceive" in 4 dimensions at most.

The Father,The Son and Holy Spirit are only 4 dimensional constructs.If there is a creator God they are not metaphysical because the Kingdom of God realm is not IN the existence of the"creation"(things made) of the physical realm .The physical realm is In and outside of the infinite bubble of the Kingdom of God realm on the limited dimensions "surfaces".

The fact is man can perceive the creator God only through faith however they cannot "know" the creator God by faith.The creator God can only be known by revelation that is 100% caused by the creator God to "know".All else(faith) is false perception.In other words it doesn't matter how many"persons" of what is perceived of a Godhead whatever man "believes" will be wrong.

It is a futile endeavor as the proverbial how many angels fit on the head of a pin.To try to "prove" a God Trinity is in vain.The creator God WILL BE what they will Be nothing more not nothing less.It is not mans purpose to fit the creator God in the Box of the physical realm.The creator God transcends that construct and is causing Life to be conceived in the physical realm.That is ALL man can know or needs to know.

All theory's of religion(theology) are false in nature.Nothing can be "known" of the creator God through the observation of faith.Faith is the main function of perception in the physical realm.NOTHING can be known as absolute Truth by ANY method because the foundation will always be false and perceived through faith.To KNOW the truth ALL of the "true facts" most be known and known to be true which is impossible in the physical realm.

Is there a triune creator God ..no....…the creator God "will be what they will be"…nothing more nor nothing less.

a reply to: RidgeWalker

Are you saying that, without a doctrine of a triune Godhead, one would be left thinking that Jesus was just a good man?

No.

Are you drawing a distinction between A spirit of God, and God Himself, who is a spirit (substance)?

Not exactly.

Are you saying that the conclusion is predetermined that Jesus was God, and other Scriptures are used as proof texts?

No.

Just what I said, Why would you think Jesus was creating the universe or whatever, as God, if the Trinity doctrine didn't already exist?

I'm trying to get you to do a thought experiment.
Imagine the Trinity actually being a heresy and it never took off and today you never heard of the word, Trinity, then how would you , or why would you not, ever come up with the idea that Jesus created the universe?

You may not realize it but the normal translation of the beginning of John 1 is a construct based on the verse in 1 John that says that Jesus, basically is the word.
If you disallow that part of the verse as most current translations do, then there is no reason to translate it the way it is.
The wording in the Greek is ambiguous where it can mean either, he, or , it.
"The Word" is only translated as a person because of that verse in 1 John.
So you are left with the choice of accepting the Trinity, or rejecting the idea of the "Word" in John 1 being Jesus.

Understanding of who Jesus really is:

He is the firstborn of all creation. God's only begotten son. Because he is the first spirit created by God, and through him all other spirits and creation were created, he is the chief messenger (angel) of God.

Jesus was his earthly name, but in the heavens his name is Michael.

While on earth, Jesus was tempted by Satan "The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I wan to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, "it is written: Worship the Lord your God and serve him only" (Luke 4:5-8)

In a similar manner Michael dealt with Satan: " even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "the Lord rebuke you." (Jude 9)

In the end times we see something interesting at (Daniel 12:1) "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people (YHVH's), will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is written in the book-will be delivered."

We see in the end times at (Revelation 12:7): And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and it's angels battled but did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven." This depicts the time when Jesus received the kingdom, and ousted the wicked spirits from heaven.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we see Jesus "will come down from heaven , with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God."

He receives the kingdom from his father God (YHVH), and thus he is the prince of his people: " no one supports me against them except Michael, your prince." (Daniel 10:21)

a reply to: ElohimJD

Thank you ElohimJD for bringing in more insight. I have been reading articles on Hinduism (God has many rooms in his house) to try understand the trinity better. If I have translated correctly, the waters are Atman (realization of our individualized self), the blood is Brahman (realization of our universal self) and the holy spirit is the dynamic energy responsible for creation, maintenance, and destruction of the universe. So perhaps Holy Spirit is more the will of God rather than the mind of God, but language probably insufficient to explain the unexplainable with single words.

So when one reads "the Son and the Father are one. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. Yet all along the Father is greater" all takes new meaning when one uses Hindu to try unravel its meaning. Hinduism tells to achieve full enlightenment of our universal self (father = Brahma) one has to first achieve full enlightenment of our individualized self (son = atma). Once achieved the aim is to then achieve full enlightenment of universal self (father = Brahma). Yeshua perhaps achieved full realization of universal self when he walked the desert for 40 days striping away all remains of his self ego.

Sadly many Christians think that its blasphemous to even question Yeshua (aka Jesus) divinity. I think not, the true intent of early Christianity was to inspire us to follow Yeshua footsteps. Saying Yeshua was God dis-empowers Christians from walking the same path, and that in itself, is the real blasphemy. Yeshua (aka Jesus) was truly great and should inspire us all.

God Bless.

a reply to: glend

One problem with that scenario: false religion ALWAYS lies.

Satan counterfeits everything that God does.

This is why religion is probably his greatest masterpiece.

One thing really stands out in many of your posts glend...

You appear to be a seeker of real truth.

I find your conversations intriguing and enjoyable because of that.

I am always saddened when ever I see others struggling to find answers because they are looking in the wrong places.

Religion is clearly NOT the place to seek after the truth.

God left us some huge clues as to how to find it though: Ask, seek, and knock...

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control. The indoctrination of the masses by a "Trojan Horse" false religion has allowed the Illuminati to take control and work in secret for many, many years." Link

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda. Link

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated organized religion. Link

When I was researching Hinduism I discovered that it is actually a manufactured "religion" created in 1830:

Over the last three years, I have visited several libraries, and diligently studied Hindu theology, scriptures, and books. I spent countless hours pouring over thick works through the night, often hidden in obscure corners of dusty shelves in old libraries, covered in spider webs.

In short, I discovered that Hinduism was an English invention that bracketed several distinct, mutually hostile religions into one umbrella. `Hinduism' or `Sanatana Dharma' did not exist before the English, but was created by them in order to reward the Brahmins for loyal services during Anglo-Brahmin rule

Myth of One Hindu Religion Exploded

Bottom line: religion is simply Satan masquerading as our Lord Jesus Christ.

He is a counterfeiter.

Hinduism is fiction created by the British. Hinduism is not a single religion. It consists of "thousands of different religious groups that have evolved in India since 1500 BCE." The correct name for what is commonly called "Hinduism" is "Sanatana Dharma" "Sanathana Dharma" was also a 19nth century invention. forums.catholic.com...

Hinduism did not exist before 1830. It was created by the English colonialists in the 1830s. This remarkable circumstance is evidenced by the fact that none of the travelers who visited India before English rule used the word `Hindu' or `Sanatana'. This is amply borne out by the Encyclopedia Britannica, which states :

" The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 by British writers. "-- [ EB 20 `Hinduism ' 519 ]

In other words, the founding father of `Hinduism' is an Englishman ! Nowhere in the Vedas, Puranas or any other religious text prior to 1830 AD are the terms `Hindu'...The Myth of Hinduism

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: RidgeWalker

The same person Who created in Genesis, died on the Cross, and came back on Pentecost.

No.

The same mind/thought/plan (logos) that Created in Genesis, also thought/planned (logos) the need for a Passover sacrifice on a stake/pole (NOT CROSS!)

Good point, didn't see it before. I snapped a picture at the British museum of a Greco-Roman sculpture dated to the first century. It shows the common execution methods of a prisoner during Jesus' time. Combined with the Greek word Stauros, which means tree or stake, and not cross, we can see Jesus most likely did not die on a cross. The cross was used before Christ as a symbol of worship, all the way back to the Babylonians, probably in conjunction mainly with Tammuz worship. Just as the trinity was pasted falsely onto Christianity, so was this pagan symbol. It is no wonder that it is venerated in an idolatrous way. A great ploy by the devil to mislead the masses!

a reply to: ElohimJD

The same mind/thought/plan (logos) that Created in Genesis, also thought/planned (logos) the need for a Passover sacrifice on a stake/pole (NOT CROSS!); and the same mind/thought/plan (logos) also brought the ability for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (mind of God) in the minds of human beings beginning on Pentecost 31AD.

Can you explain what a "Passover sacrifice" is?

Passover lambs were slaughtered, never sacrificed.
Jesus was fulfillment of the type described in the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53.
The Gospel of John says flat-out that Isaiah was writing about Jesus in prophecy.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I will reply to this. The sacrificial lamb foreshadowed the sacrifice of the Christ. That is why Jesus is referred to as "The Lamb" in the scriptures. Pretty basic.

originally posted by: Murgatroid


I am always saddened when ever I see others struggling to find answers because they are looking in the wrong places.

Religion is clearly NOT the place to seek after the truth.

...........

Bottom line: religion is simply Satan masquerading as our Lord Jesus Christ.

He is a counterfeiter.

-----------------

Yes "religion" is the great deception perpetrated by "satan" however satan is not a being or entity.It means adversary.It is the religious carnal mind" that is at enmity with the creator God.The 2nd biggest lie ever believed(the 1st is the eternal punishment of hell sanctioned by the creator God) is a being "satan" is the cause of all the evil man does when in fact "man" is .ALL of mankind was born with a religious nature.The amalgamation of ALL of a persons experiences form their belief in faith of "their" Belief System religion.The fact is religion has a purpose however it's ends do not justify the means.The creator God is VERY aware of mans nature.They created them that way.They are 100% responsible in both meanings of the word.

A person can ONLY act according to their nature and character(their names).They will "repent" (change)when they need to and it will all be caused by the creator God not themselves.Fear is caused by not "knowing" the truth and blaming "mythic fictional" beings for personal actions.Religion is mans illness and ironically is also one of the means for the cure.

a reply to: TheChrome

The sacrificial lamb foreshadowed the sacrifice of the Christ. That is why Jesus is referred to as "The Lamb" in the scriptures. Pretty basic.

The only thing "basic" about it is that Jesus was crucified around the time of Passover.
What you are describing, I would call a theory since the Bible never actually says any of that.
Where is there a rule that if you get killed at the time of a celebration, then that celebration really means your being killed?

John the Baptist pointed out Jesus as being "the lamb of God" who lifts up the world's sin.
This is to me a reference to the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53, where he is compared to a lamb, "dumb before its shearers".

a reply to: Murgatroid

Yes I see the plague of satanical forces everywhere as well (War, Religion, Education, Media, Government etc). But if people weren't shaken from their slumber would they really turn to God. One thing I know for certain, nothing could step one foot forward without the grace of God, nothing. The following quote from Gospel of Thomas pours light on the matter, a beautiful peace of scripture for anyone with the ears to hear.

"Jesus said, Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

I think you are referring to 19th-century Aryan invasion theory which has been dismissed by scholars. You can view the timeline of Hindu texts here ( en.wikipedia.org... ). We have to be careful of forces that also want turn us away from books that can help us understand our spiritual self better. One can find God in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism. The satanic war against these religions is real, make sure you don't inadvertently help them.

I congratulate you for searching the truth as well.

originally posted by: Rex282
satan is not a being or entity...

Not going to ask for a source on that.

It's pretty obvious WHO is behind that scenario.

God's Word on the other hand is usually right...

The fulfillment of prophecy is irrefutable proof that the Bible is in fact an inerrant and divinely inspired book.

Anyone who assumes errors in Scripture contradicts Christ to His face. He said of the whole Scripture and every single word of it: “And Scripture cannot be broken.” Those who wish to restrict the inspiration of the Holy Scripture contradict the Apostle of Christ who testifies: “All Scripture is inspired of God.”

Scripture Cannot be Broken

Jesus Himself confirmed the verbal plenary inspiration of the Scriptures when He said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law...” (Matthew 5:17-18). In these verses, Jesus is reinforcing the accuracy of the Scriptures down to the smallest detail and the slightest punctuation mark, because it is the very Word of God.

Because the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God, we can conclude that they are also inerrant and authoritative. A correct view of God will lead us to a correct view of His Word. Because God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely perfect, His Word will by its very nature have the same characteristics. The same verses that establish the inspiration of the Scriptures also establish that it is both inerrant and authoritative. Without a doubt the Bible is what it claims to be—the undeniable, authoritative, Word of God to humanity.

What does it mean that the Bible is inspired?

So Scripture is unbreakable, or “indestructible” even. Not in a physical sense – plenty of Bibles have been successfully destroyed by fire. But in the sense that Jesus uses in Matt 24:35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” The doctrine of the unbreakability of Scripture means that God’s words never lose their truth, relevance or power. We never move beyond Scripture, and we never argue with Scripture. Or as J C Ryle explains it:

“Wherever the Scripture speaks plainly on any subject, there can be no more question about it. The case is settled and decided. Every jot and tittle of Scripture is true, and must be received as conclusive.”

The Unbreakability of Scripture

This is one of the better discussions I have seen on ATS on the Trinity, it's good to see some people not just blindly accepting a doctrine that is false. At one time the Roman Catholic Church only allowed one belief system everything else was heresy and you couldn't even read the bible to see if what the clergy was saying was true. But slowly old doctrines like purgatory began to be found out as false, next on the list was "Hell", last to fall albeit very slowly is the Trinity.

Unitarian belief of God is on the rise, and that speaks to the truth being realized. Like a light that get brighter as time passes

Proverbs 4:18

But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.