Amendments to Trinity

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: RidgeWalker

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of one's own interpretation," ~ II Peter 1:20 NASV

Your translation downplays the use in the verse of the Greek word, ginomai, just putting "is" in there for it.
If the writer meant "is" he would have used the word that specifically means that.
The word, ginomai, refers to how the scripture came to be written.
The Prophet, 2 Peter says, isn't just making this stuff up.
It has nothing to do with how the reader understands it.
Colbe has a current post quoting the same verse saying that it means you have to accept what the Catholic Church tells you to believe about what scripture means.

A better translation would be "No prediction from Holy Writ originated through anyone's personal application or explanation." The extrapolated principle being that no person has license to find "hidden meaning" or develop their own interpretation.

You've established that you don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity as accepted by the majority of Christistendom. You've also established that you don't accept the Protestant canon. What do you believe?

a reply to: RidgeWalker

You've established that you don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity as accepted by the majority of Christistendom.

I don't know what you mean by Christistendom.
Are we still in the Crusades?
I think if you took a poll of Christians, most wouldn't know what the Trinity is, exactly.
For example, you don't.
You have some weird Dispensationalist or Pentecostal "Oneness" cult version that goes directly against the so-called orthodox version.

You've also established that you don't accept the Protestant canon. What do you believe?

There is no such thing as a "Protestant" canon, it is just the pre-Council of Trent, Catholic canon.
What I don't believe is just any sort of doctrinal bs people want to shove down my throat, being capable of reading the Bible myself, thank-you very much.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: RidgeWalker

You've established that you don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity as accepted by the majority of Christistendom.

I don't know what you mean by Christistendom.
Are we still in the Crusades?
I think if you took a poll of Christians, most wouldn't know what the Trinity is, exactly.
For example, you don't.
You have some weird Dispensationalist or Pentecostal "Oneness" cult version that goes directly against the so-called orthodox version.

You've also established that you don't accept the Protestant canon. What do you believe?

There is no such thing as a "Protestant" canon, it is just the pre-Council of Trent, Catholic canon.
What I don't believe is just any sort of doctrinal bs people want to shove down my throat, being capable of reading the Bible myself, thank-you very much.

Who is shoving doctrine down your throat?

originally posted by: TheChrome
The Trinity is not taught in the bible, he was wise and searched out the truth.

The anti-Trinity heresy would NEVER have been condemned by the fourth century church if the concept did not exist in the Bible.

Cults and false religions attack the trinity so that they can deny the deity of Jesus.

Of course, the event of Jesus’ baptism plainly and naturally affirms the Trinity—all three Persons are directly and distinctly involved. What obviously proves simultaneous Modalism false are the numerous passages indicating a personal distinction between the three Persons of the Trinity (e.g., Luke 10:21-22; John 1:1b; 6:37-40; 14:23; 2 Cor. 13:14). www.christiandefense.org...

Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammar reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8

B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26

"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22

"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech." Genesis 11:7

"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

Trinity Proof Texts

The teaching of the Church from the first century onward has always been trinitarian. The first Gospel, Saint Matthew, clearly establishes the trinitarian nature of God, especially in the baptismal formulae of the "great commission."

Paul's companion, Saint Luke, and his Gospel and the Acts which clearly teach trinitarian doctrine can only lead a believer to conclude any denial of the Trinity is clear and complete heresy. To wait two hundred years to deny the Trinity is just foolish heresy - clumbsy work of Satan at his sloppiest.

Confessional's Bytes: The Modern Day Modalists—Part I

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cult groups attack. It is also the main doctrine that all the mainline, historic churches agree upon. We may all have our differences, Catholics and varying Protestant groups, but when it comes to the doctrine on God we all agree that the Bible teaches belief in One God revealed in three persons, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Nevertheless we would not want to believe in the Trinity if the Bible did not teach it, no matter what the beliefs of our various churches were.

It's interesting that the cult groups usually give their members a false definition of the Trinity. For example, the magazine salesmen knocking on your door with their propaganda from Brooklyn, New York, say that the church teaches that there are three gods in one. This is completely false.

IS THE TRINITY TRUE?

The one thing that all cults and non-Christian religions have in common is, they all deny the deity of Christ. In John 8:24 Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I am (the name God said was His in Exodus 3:15) you will die in your sin.”

People reading this today (2,000 years later) might not understand this, but the people Jesus said it to understood Him perfectly! They wanted to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:30-33). In most cases the confusion is based on miss-understanding the Trinity.

The cults say the Trinity is a damnable heresy. For a mortal who has never seen God, to say that the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal God cannot be God in heaven, come to earth as a man, and be everywhere at the same time by His Spirit (a statement beyond his pay-grade) is a greater mystery than the Trinity itself.

There is not a man on earth who can tell you how a brown cow can eat green grass and turn it into white milk! Answering the Cults

One of the biggest clues is to look at which groups reject the Trinity and which do not:

Faith Groups that Reject the Trinity

• Muslims
• Mormons
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Christian Science
• Scientology
• Arians
• Armstrongism
• Christadelphians
• The Way International
• Unification Church

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: TheChrome
The Trinity is not taught in the bible, he was wise and searched out the truth.

The anti-Trinity heresy would NEVER have been condemned by the fourth century church if the concept did not exist in the Bible.

Cults and false religions attack the trinity so that they can deny the deity of Jesus.

Of course, the event of Jesus’ baptism plainly and naturally affirms the Trinity—all three Persons are directly and distinctly involved. What obviously proves simultaneous Modalism false are the numerous passages indicating a personal distinction between the three Persons of the Trinity (e.g., Luke 10:21-22; John 1:1b; 6:37-40; 14:23; 2 Cor. 13:14). www.christiandefense.org...

Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity

A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammar reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.

"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8

B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:

"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26

"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22

"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech." Genesis 11:7

"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8

Trinity Proof Texts

The teaching of the Church from the first century onward has always been trinitarian. The first Gospel, Saint Matthew, clearly establishes the trinitarian nature of God, especially in the baptismal formulae of the "great commission."

Paul's companion, Saint Luke, and his Gospel and the Acts which clearly teach trinitarian doctrine can only lead a believer to conclude any denial of the Trinity is clear and complete heresy. To wait two hundred years to deny the Trinity is just foolish heresy - clumbsy work of Satan at his sloppiest.

Confessional's Bytes: The Modern Day Modalists—Part I

The Trinity has become the main doctrine that all the cult groups attack. It is also the main doctrine that all the mainline, historic churches agree upon. We may all have our differences, Catholics and varying Protestant groups, but when it comes to the doctrine on God we all agree that the Bible teaches belief in One God revealed in three persons, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Nevertheless we would not want to believe in the Trinity if the Bible did not teach it, no matter what the beliefs of our various churches were.

It's interesting that the cult groups usually give their members a false definition of the Trinity. For example, the magazine salesmen knocking on your door with their propaganda from Brooklyn, New York, say that the church teaches that there are three gods in one. This is completely false.

IS THE TRINITY TRUE?

The one thing that all cults and non-Christian religions have in common is, they all deny the deity of Christ. In John 8:24 Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I am (the name God said was His in Exodus 3:15) you will die in your sin.”

People reading this today (2,000 years later) might not understand this, but the people Jesus said it to understood Him perfectly! They wanted to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:30-33). In most cases the confusion is based on miss-understanding the Trinity.

The cults say the Trinity is a damnable heresy. For a mortal who has never seen God, to say that the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal God cannot be God in heaven, come to earth as a man, and be everywhere at the same time by His Spirit (a statement beyond his pay-grade) is a greater mystery than the Trinity itself.

There is not a man on earth who can tell you how a brown cow can eat green grass and turn it into white milk! Answering the Cults

One of the biggest clues is to look at which groups reject the Trinity and which do not:

Faith Groups that Reject the Trinity

• Muslims
• Mormons
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Christian Science
• Scientology
• Arians
• Armstrongism
• Christadelphians
• The Way International
• Unification Church

One of those is the true faith, it is your quest to find out which one...

In regards to the contention that the rejection of the trinity is done to deny the deity of Jesus, my longest post from yesterday morning should make it clear that I, and those of like precious faith, do not deny His deity; we understand that there is only one God, who has manifested Himself in three manners. One Person Who has used three ways to communicate with His creation.

This is a video of a debate many years ago between one of the primary oneness theologians, and a trinitarian theologian. It is rather lengthy, right at two hours, but would be beneficial for someone who is looking for a different perspective.

I think relatively few verses in the Bible that mention a spirit are Trinitarian, meaning talking about the third person of the godhead.
Here are two that to me seem to be definitely about Him.
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Both verses, in the Greek, have it in the form, "the holy spirit".
Meaning with the article, and with that word order.
Most of the mentions of a holy spirit do not have the article, and the word order is reversed.
Those, I think, are just about a spirit that has as its ultimate source, God.

If this is actually a rule, rather than just coincidence, then it leaves us with verses like:

Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Then followed by five other verses in Acts, that use that same construct that I pointed out.

The other instance of this formatting is in 1 John 5:7, which is in the King James and left out of most current translations.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (the Logos), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So the point of all of this is that there is only a limited amount of references to a holy spirit that means the third person of the godhead.

Where this has suddenly lead my thinking since being active on this thread and simultaneously being active on some other web sites, is to now have this idea that the "trinity" is a limited thing, meaning it involves these other divine and immortal heavenly entities who have been enlisted by God to fulfill roles that are specific to this world and our race of humanity towards our salvation and the operation of this kingdom otherwise known as, the church.
This would be counter to the so-called orthodox Trinitarian view that there has always been, and always will be, a sort of triune god.

a reply to: Murgatroid

The anti-Trinity heresy would NEVER have been condemned by the fourth century church if the concept did not exist in the Bible.

And what "heresy" would that be, exactly?

If you are thinking about so-called Arianism, then that was just the Christian trinity before Athanasius reworked the doctrine to fit his own imaginings.

Here are the photos I mentioned in my earlier post. The first is John 1:1, which many use to prove Jesus is God, however it is clear that Almighty God is rendered different than Jesus. The second photo is 2 Corinthians 4:4 where Satan is referred to a god in the Greek text. You can see Satan and Jesus are both rendered the same, whereas YHVH is rendered OEOV. It is worthy of mention, God had no beginning, for he is everlasting to everlasting. Jesus however did have a beginning, as he was the firstborn of all creation.

originally posted by: RidgeWalker
And, the doctrine of the trinity cannot be found in the text. Even with your rejection en toto of one entire book (Acts), there isn't any evidence of tritheism in either the Old Testament or the New.

Oneness believers alway say this about the word “Trinity” but aren’t willing to talk about the fact that the unbiblical doctrine of “Oneness” is found NO where in the Bible.

The Scriptures are full of references to the triune nature of God...

In doing so they embrace modalism, a heresy that was condemned by the Synod of Smyrna in a.d. 200. The Nicene and Athanasian creeds also condemn modalism. If Jesus is the Father, why then does Jesus refer to the Father and the Holy Spirit in manner that distinguishes them from Himself, if they are merely “expressions” or “manifestations” of himself. Once again, this scripture makes no sense if one adheres to oneness doctrine. It could only be explained away with poor exegesis. In fact, there are more than 60 new testament verses alone mentioning the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the same verse!

The Jesus Only Movement's Teachings Are Heresy And Nonsensical!

originally posted by: RidgeWalker
The doctrine of the Trinity has its roots in the council of Nicea. The apostles and other Christians for the first couple centuries of Christianity did not teach any such doctrine. There are still many Christians that do not believe in the trinity, and do not trace our roots through the reformation to Rome, but we trace our roots back to Pentecost.

The doctrine of “Oneness” has its roots in Gnosticism:

Gnosticism is the foundation of the oneness movement even if the oneness movement does not accept all the tenets of Gnosticism.

Modalism: Heresy Or Catholic Persecution of Truth?

Virtually all non-Christian cults (esp. Oneness believers and Jehovah’s Witnesses) reject the doctrine of the Trinity and teach that the early church had no such concept of a triune God, but rather they held to a unitarian concept of God (i.e., God existing as one Person). Because of a great lack of study in the area of Patristics (i.e., church Fathers), these groups normally assert that the origins of the doctrine of the Trinity first emerged at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325.

So vast is the evidence that the early church envisaged a tri-personal God and not a unitarian or unipersonal deity to which groups such as Oneness Pentecostals (as well as Muslims, Jews, and JWs) hold, that Oneness writers such as William B. Chalfant make desperate attempts to convince Oneness believes that the early church Fathers were really modalists (Oneness):

The Trinity and the Early Church: Debunking the Oneness Myth

And after Modalism/Oneness theology reemerged in the twentieth century, it was again rejected by the church. The historical records speak clearly: the early church envisaged a tri-personal God. Hence, they assertively condemned any teaching that controverted or rejected the essential distinctions among the divine Persons of the Trinity.

The error of Sabellianism was no small matter to the Christian church. It attacked the very nature of God. Thus, Oneness theology in all forms was universally condemned. In order to achieve a correct understanding of the attitude of the early church one must realize that the massive amounts of information written against the Modalism of Sabellius show beyond doubt that the early Christians did not see Oneness theology as simply a non-essential matter, it was of the utmost importance.

Modalism and Church History

a reply to: TheChrome

. . . 2 Corinthians 4:4 where Satan is referred to a god in the Greek text. You can see Satan and Jesus are both rendered the same, whereas YHVH is rendered OEOV.

One is in the genitive, while the other is in the nominative case.
It's just the way Greek uses words to indicate grammar, even if it is the word for, God.
One is "our god", the other is "that god".

And, by the way, the "god of this age" is not Satan.
Paul is being metaphorical here, talking about how people perceive God, the old way fading, being replaced by a more accurate concept of God through the revelation of Jesus.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: RidgeWalker
And, the doctrine of the trinity cannot be found in the text. Even with your rejection en toto of one entire book (Acts), there isn't any evidence of tritheism in either the Old Testament or the New.

Oneness believers alway say this about the word “Trinity” but aren’t willing to talk about the fact that the unbiblical doctrine of “Oneness” is found NO where in the Bible.

The Scriptures are full of references to the triune nature of God...

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD

Psalm 118:14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation (same root word as Yeshua)

Isaiah 43:10-11 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. (savior ~ same word as in Ps 118:14)

John 8:21 ...if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:

John 8:58 Before Abraham was, I AM.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, "I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us

I Timothy 3:16 ...God was manifest in the flesh...

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." If Jesus has all power, and the Greek word means "all, whole", what do the other two have?

Colossians 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


How did God create things using a different person (the Son), when the Son didn't exist yet?

If God has always existed as a triune-godhead of three persons, why was there the emphasis on absolute unity in the OT, so much so that when Jesus claimed to be God that the Jews took up stones to stone Him? How could he say "the Father is in Me?" Did He have multiple people living in Him?

As I already asked, if the Father is the father, why did the Holy Ghost do the overshadowing of the mother?

If the Son and the Father are different people, why are they described using the same terms? In fact, it would not be inaccurate to quote Ps 118:14 as "....become my Jesus..." because the root of the Hebrew word is the same root from which we derive the name Jesus.

If the Son is not the same person as the God that spoke to Moses that He is one, who is the "God with us", as Gabriel described the baby that Mary would bear?

The trinity was a compromise between the monotheism of the New Testament, and the polytheism of the pagan religions.

" Christians... conversant with the then dominant philosophy of middle-Platonism seized the opportunity to proclaim and elucidate the Christian message in a thought form which was meaningful to the educated classes of the widespread Hellenistic society. Confident that the God they [the pagan Greek philosophers] preached was the Father of Jesus Christ and the salvation they proclaimed was that of Jesus, the apologists adapted much of the Hellenic worldview... [Tertullian made] the first known use of the term "trinity" (p. 1054). Roman Catholic New Theological Dictionary

The doctrine of the trinity defies basic reason: This is an oversimplified example, but accurately illustrations the fallacy of making three people equal one God: If the Son is God, and God is a trinity, then the Son is a trinity.

Three people do not equate to one God. That is tritheism.

One God. He overshadowed Mary, she bore a son, who was both the son of God and the son of man. The Invisible God then inhabited that body for thirty-three years, was tempted in all points like as we are, fulfilled the role of the perfect passover lamb, and after His sacrifice fulfilled the role of the high priest with His own blood. He then returned to live in and among His people on the day of Pentecost. One God, different roles for different purposes.

a reply to: RidgeWalker

Colossians 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This is just the new covenant vs. the old covenant, where you had this thing, Israel, that was a kingdom, a country and system of government.

Jesus is now the virtual I Am of this new thing, which is God's chosen people constituted as the church which Jesus created by his work on earth and then in the spiritual realm from Heaven.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: RidgeWalker

Colossians 1:15-17 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

This is just the new covenant vs. the old covenant, where you had this thing, Israel, that was a kingdom, a country and system of government, Jesus is now the virtual I Am of this new thing, which is God's chosen people constituted as the church which Jesus created by his work on earth and then in the spiritual realm from Heaven.

I both agree and disagree.

God always works from the end backwards, or starts with the end in mind. He created the world, and humanity, knowing what would happen and knowing that there would be a need for redemption. Hence, the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Israel never had a personal relationship with God. Even now, if you listen to Jews teaching on their history, you will find that they look at God as being "way up there" relative to them, and the only relationship they can have with Him is based upon their obedience as a nation. Not a personal relationship at all, much less based upon mercy and grace.

But it was God's desire from the get-go to have a one-on-one relationship with men and women, and that was achieved through the redemptive work at Calvary, the burial, and the resurrection. When we respond to Him in faith, and allow that faith to drive us to obedience, we can participate in that relationship.

a reply to: RidgeWalker

Hence, the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The correct translation is:

and all those who live on the earth will worship the beast, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb who was killed.

which goes along with the part further on, in Revelation:

The beast you saw was, and is not, but is about to come up from the abyss and then go to destruction. The inhabitants of the earth – all those whose names have not been written in the book of life since the foundation of the world – will be astounded when they see that the beast was, and is not, but is to come.

The doctrine of the trinity defies basic reason:

I posted above yesterday what I came up with after thinking about this pretty much non-stop for two weeks.

There has been since Genesis 1 a holy spirit as a way that God works in the world.

The other thing that has oddly a very similar name is specific to Christianity as it first came about officially as Jesus was saying his final farewells before returning to the Father.

The only real explanation for it is in the Gospel of John where Jesus describes a spiritual person who will be with us as he is not physically with us in person.

The other thing that has oddly a very similar name is specific to Christianity as it first came about officially as Jesus was saying his final farewells before returning to the Father.

The only real explanation for it is in the Gospel of John where Jesus describes a spiritual person who will be with us as he is not physically with us in person. emphasis mine ~ RW

The same person Who created in Genesis, died on the Cross, and came back on Pentecost.

a reply to: RidgeWalker

The same person Who created in Genesis, died on the Cross, and came back on Pentecost.

Why would you even think that if there wasn't already a Trinity doctrine?

a reply to: jmdewey60

I don't understand what you're asking...

a reply to: glend
Excellent post and accurate as well.

3 bare witness. The spirit (Holy Spirit, mind of God; not a separate entity), and the waters (of repentance, washing away of sins) and the blood (Passover sacrifice of Jesus/Joshua Christ; paying the price of sin having not been found guilty of it; needed for the removal of sins for those who are guilty).

There is One God, the Father of all, Almighty in power, The Creator of the heavens (spirit realm) and the Earth (physical realm).

Jesus/Joshua Christ had a beginning, when born of Mary 2000 years ago.
The Word (gk = logos) is the revealing thoughts which come from God. His mind made manifest in the physical realm.
The Holy Spirit is the mind of God; it is Holy because it belongs to Him.

God Bless,

a reply to: RidgeWalker

I don't understand what you're asking...

That you wouldn't think that Jesus was creating the world if there wasn't already the doctrine that he was of a "God" status, as it claims.

You wouldn't for one thing, have this often left out verse section in 1 John that by logic names Jesus as the Logos, that would force translating the first chapter of the Gospel of John to make it out as a person, rather than some sort of spirit of God, which it could just as easily mean, if you didn't already have the idea that it really meant, Jesus.