Does the beast in revelation 13,1 actually have 8 heads and not 7?

Some how the Isaiah scroll from the dead sea missed out on that Chinese conversation and stands as a document from over 2000 years confirming the lack of errors, and the consistency and dedication of committed people to getting it correct . a reply to: signalfire

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: spy66

My idea is that the focus is on the 7 kings, not the heads (which is a symbol). The 8th king is one of the 7 fallen kings that will rise again, hence the mortal wound that is healed. Therefore, 7 heads, one fallen and resurrected to be king again.

I think the 8th king is Nimrod. Since Mystery Babylon is really Nineveh (zeph 2:13-15), I feel that the 7 heads are all Assyrian kings:
(No specific order)

Nimrod
Pul
Sennicherib
Sargon II
Shalpileser
Furture unknown king (the one that IS for a short while)
Nimrod resurrected as Apollyon

That is also where i had my mind until i started to read verse 17,7 and 8.

Revelations starts out With what he thinks he is seeing. But than the angel comes in and puts him on the right track by explaining to him what he didnt see.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

What the angel is describing to him is not what he actually saw at the beginning. The angel is describing the eighth head "what he didnt see".

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This is the beast the angel is talking about.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

What are these verses telling us about the 10 kings?

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

There is a differens here between verse 10 and 12. In verse 10 there are 1 king present and one is to show up. In verse 12 it describes what what their Kingdom is going to be for one hour.
They are going to receive the Power as kings for one hour With the beast. That is not mentioned in verse 10. That is because they are not yet the king of the beast until it i granted them.

Those heads represent the heads of certain governments...

a reply to: spy66

I dont see what you're seeing. The angel only counts 7 heads, then he tells John that they are 7 kings. Next he tells John that the Beast from the abyss is one of the 7 who becomes the 8th king (the healed head).

The angel makes the transition from heads to kings to show that the 8th king is really just a revived head.

Now if the angel started of by saying that there were 8 heads, that would be a different story.

a reply to: spy66

Um, he does. In Hebrews I am condemned to fall into the hand of a living God. I once believed, and now call the entire story and his army of profiteering partners BS. I think most pastors and priests are scam artists, pretending it is real for power and monetary gain.

Oh, and I am condemned already just for existing. That is not threatening my existence?

What is selfish to me, is your absolute avoidance on your part, about my question regarding John's writings and Deuteronomy 18. You still need to prove how his writings are even supposed to be in the Bible before they can be applied the way you are attempting to do so. You are not following sound doctrine as demanded by Paul, by ignoring Moses requirements for prophets.

If the mark cannot happen due to technological advancements, he was wrong. It is that simple. Now do what is required by what the scripture told you too do with writers in error.

Truth doesn't fear investigation. If you are afraid of investigation past your comfort zone with the link I have provided to you, then that is your own subconscious telling you that your religion is not true. Remember, I've been their and done that with your religion.

Prove it. Conclusively.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The mistake that we have been making is that we have attributed to Rome what should have been to the Ottoman Empire . They are the head that is wounded and comes back to life .

I have to disagree with that. The Ottoman Empire existed during the Church Age. The 70th Week is the last 7 years of Israel's Age. The Church was a total mystery to the OT prophets, so the Ottomans wouldnt even be in view. Rome will be revived during the End Times, but I believe that is the Kingdom of the False Prophet. The Kingdom of the Antichrist is revived Assyria. Thats why Mystery Babylon is located in Nineveh:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Micah calls the Antichrist the "Assyrian". Its possible that the feet of Daniel's statue is the relationship between Revived Rome and Revived Assyria.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: spy66

I dont see what you're seeing. The angel only counts 7 heads, then he tells John that they are 7 kings. Next he tells John that the Beast from the abyss is one of the 7 who becomes the 8th king (the healed head).

The angel makes the transition from heads to kings to show that the 8th king is really just a revived head.

Now if the angel started of by saying that there were 8 heads, that would be a different story.

But what you describe is not mentioned at all.

The angel starts to speak in verse 7.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The angel explains that he will tell John the mystery of the woman, AND of the beast that carrieth her. The beast that John saw is a mystery.

Then the angel goes on to say this.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The angel is talking about this beast. it is the only beast that fits.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The woman sits on 7 heads and not the head/beast described by the angel.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: spy66

Um, he does. In Hebrews I am condemned to fall into the hand of a living God. I once believed, and now call the entire story and his army of profiteering partners BS. I think most pastors and priests are scam artists, pretending it is real for power and monetary gain.

Oh, and I am condemned already just for existing. That is not threatening my existence?

What is selfish to me, is your absolute avoidance on your part, about my question regarding John's writings and Deuteronomy 18. You still need to prove how his writings are even supposed to be in the Bible before they can be applied the way you are attempting to do so. You are not following sound doctrine as demanded by Paul, by ignoring Moses requirements for prophets.

If the mark cannot happen due to technological advancements, he was wrong. It is that simple. Now do what is required by what the scripture told you too do with writers in error.

Truth doesn't fear investigation. If you are afraid of investigation past your comfort zone with the link I have provided to you, then that is your own subconscious telling you that your religion is not true. Remember, I've been their and done that with your religion.

Prove it. Conclusively.

All this probably only makes sense to me and some others i dont know. It surly dosent make sense to you. Aint that proof enough for you?

Dont you see the proof?
How can i help you if you dont?

You are the living proof that this is happening. What are the odds that a evil beast would admitting it is a evil beast? probably never.

originally posted by: MX61000
Those heads represent the heads of certain governments...

Probably yes.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

This verse explains where exactly the whore is sitting.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The vatican sits on seven hill. But if the vatican is one of the ten horns on one of the 7 heads. The Pope/papal See is not the whore.

There is also a verse that says.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

In Rev. 3 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. This tells me that the church will be around near the end and that Israel is a separate issue .

I agree that he will be a "Assyrian". But the beast will be the Empire at the time .He comes out from that beast . Daniel is told to seal up his vision until the end but John is told not to .John adds some important distinctions . The more I study this subject the more I want to . If Gods command to Daniel was to shut up the visions until the end and we see our brothers from just after the closing of scriptures till today claiming that Rome was the 4th beast then it doesn't bode well for God being able to sealing up Daniels vision .My take would be that Daniels vision would only be able to be understood properly near the end . a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

here is one thing i have thought of,,

Q: What has all the Legal "God" given Right's of a man, and is not a man.?

A: A Corporation.

I know that one was maybe too easy.?

Do you think that God,, would see this "image" of man,
or a woman,,
and allow this image or Corporation,
,the same love for man and women upon which precept upon precept ,
title ,by title, judgement, by judgement,
too where we have today,,a legal image of entities with the same rights and privileges as a ordinary person?

Some call this image a Corporation,,some say beast.

a reply to: Not Authorized

This is allegory. Most of the scriptures in any of these religions is allegory except like the Ten Commandments.

Often there is great wisdom and knowledge in allegory and metaphor

Regarding your comment: What about the crimes of the atheists?
What prompted them?

The holy book of the atheists.

Crimes against humanity is done by humans who would do these crimes whether religious or not.

The fact that religion does lend itself to sectarianism is a problem, but the problem is sectarianism not the religion.

It is a challenge of religious people to eradicate the negative sectarianism in religion:
The attitude of “My religion is better than yours” that ignorant sectarians preach and leads to dangerous attitudes and often bad actions.

Different religions shouldn’t look down on other religions at all

Nor should they look down on atheists, nor should atheists look down on religious people

a reply to: spy66

If you ask me, I think 12,422 angels can dance on the head of a pin,... NOT 12,421... those who think 12,421 angels can dance on the head of a pin just haven't researched the bible enough...

for instance,,, the Corporate Beast,, that has Government head.





all just image.

the key is in Daniel

when Alexander the Greats Grecian Empire broke in 4 directions... that was one of the 7 'heads/Kings' the 8th King which existed once, is not, but will come again for a short time (3 1/2 years) is a revival of the Seleucid Kingdom part of the Greek Empire being revived in the end-time/70th week/last half of the Tribulation week , that's when the 10 'horns-Kings' join the Beast for an hour before the Beast overthrows 3 of those horns-kings

Seleucid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire
The Seleucid Empire (from Greek: Σελεύκεια, Seleúkeia, Persian:سلوکیان) was a Hellenistic state ruled by the Seleucid dynasty founded by Seleucus I ...

the 8th king, Seleucid Empire revived, parts of Turkey/Syria/Iraq/Iran/Kurdistan autonomous zone, and other peoples Serbs included~ a total of 10 'horns-kings' = peoples, perhaps even sovereignties

too much explanation makes it all sound too complex ~ just expect a Nation-State or Caliphate to arise out of the peoples & area already listed~ that will fulfil the 8th king of Revelation and fulfil the prophecy that the AC will arise from one of the 4 kingdoms of Alexander the Great breakup of that Grecian Empire.... (hey there is even a Greek Apollyon god rising from the Abyss...and that underscores the Seceucid Empire as the 8th king)



now I had a few deep moments of unsureness while I listened to the dialogue coming from shoebat.com that the revived ottoman empire was the 8th king... but I keep getting reinforced that the Beast & the final empire will arise from one of the 4 kingdoms of the Greek Empire upon the death of Alexander as a sure prophecy from Daniel

The last vid I posted on this thread is well worth checking out .The author points out with scripture that the 4 beasts are on the scene at the same time and one of the beast is thrown into the fire while the other 3 are allowed to continue for a time . Very convincing ...Unlike the standard models as believable as they have been for me along with many others ,his study has merit and should be considered ..peace to all and thanks op for this thread . a reply to: St Udio

a reply to: Not Authorized

Either way, you've given me food for thought. Those of us with eyes to see, will see

I did look up the word in the concordance. Engraving, idol, carving, mark upon the forehead. Being in the age of technology, I don't think any human being would submit to some obtuse physical mark on their skin or engraving. You can't rule out a techno-tattoo though... Some would also argue that a chip under the skin constitutes a mark, but that's ambiguous at best.

I understand the concern with Deuteronomy 18, where a prophets words must be proven by the fruit of those words. The problem with that is...we haven't reached those end times yet, to really know for sure... I will however, check out the link you posted even if I'm not entirely convinced we can prove John's words were false.

There are 7 kings: The Beast with 7 heads Collectively 1) Egypt, 2)Assyria, 3)Babylon, 4)Persia, 5)Greece, 6)Rome, 7)GB/US

Babylon is represented at Dan. 2 as the head of Gold (named as Nebuchadnezzar), at Dan.7 as the Lion with wings.
Persia is represented at Dan. 2 as the Chest and Arms of Silver, at Dan. 7 as the Bear, and is named at Dan. 8:20 as the Ram with 2 horns.
Greece at Dan. 2 is the Belly and Thighs of Copper, at Dan. 7 the Leopard with 4 wings, and is named at Dan. 8:21 as the male goat with one horn split into 4.
Rome is represented at Dan. 2 as the Legs of Iron, at Dan. 7:7 the Beast with Teeth of Iron and Ten Horns.
GB/US is represented as the final power at Dan. 2 as Feet of Iron and Clay, at Dan. 7 the Horn that humiliated 3 kings: GB-prevailed against France, Spain and Netherlands.
Revelation 17:19 "Five have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece) one is (Rome) the other has not yet come (GB/US)"

The Wild beast with 7 heads is a collective representation of the past and current world powers. The 7th head being GB/US...the current dual world power. The direct beast representation of GB/US that corresponds to this 7th head is the beast described at Rev. 13:11 that has 2 horns (GB/US) like a lamb (We come in peace) but speaks as a dragon (propaganda)." He was given power to give breath (or life) to the image of the first beast (The 7 headed beast)."
What this means, is while GB/US function as the 7th power, it gives life to the "8th" listed at Rev. 17:11, for it says the 8th "BELONGS to the 7." So we are talking about a one world government in which GB/US are still the chief world power.

a reply to: spy66
I'm not sure which part of my post you're disagreeing with.
I said that the Beast is political power, and you do at least agree that the Beast is political power.
If the "heads" are individual states, that explains how a "head" can suffer a mortal wound and come back to life. It's already happened to Russia, twice over in the last century, not to mention other states.

The unity of the "ten horns" is actually the submission of subordinate rulers to the main ruler. In the same way that Mussolini and Petain and Quisling "gave over their wills" to Hitler, in varying degrees.

One factor which you haven't noticed is the way that "being an eighth" is part of the Beast's imitation of Christ.
Christ is "eighth" through being raised from the dead on the eighth day of the week (the day following the seventh), and because his resurrection is symbolised by Noah, who was "the eighth man" on the Ark.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: spy66
I'm not sure which part of my post you're disagreeing with.
I said that the Beast is political power, and you do at least agree that the Beast is political power.
If the "heads" are individual states, that explains how a "head" can suffer a mortal wound and come back to life. It's already happened to Russia, twice over in the last century, not to mention other states.

The unity of the "ten horns" is actually the submission of subordinate rulers to the main ruler. In the same way that Mussolini and Petain and Quisling "gave over their wills" to Hitler, in varying degrees.

One factor which you haven't noticed is the way that "being an eighth" is part of the Beast's imitation of Christ.
Christ is "eighth" through being raised from the dead on the eighth day of the week (the day following the seventh), and because his resurrection is symbolised by Noah, who was "the eighth man" on the Ark.

Russia dont fit into this verse at all.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

I hardly think the world Wonders after Russia.

The other part you mention about the 10 horns being submissive by the main beast can not be correct. It is the ten horns that gathers the multitude of People who shape the beast. That is how political Power functions, it functions by Deception. The ten horns who are to be kings for one hour are decieving the multitude of People into one beast.