Behold, I am coming like a thief!

When reading the following story, I came to think about the words in the title of this thread, which is from Revelation 16:15.

In 1929 there died in Jerusalem, at the age of ninety, a chassid by the name of Reb Raphael Wiltz (or Wolf) of Skoli, Galicia. He left a manuscript of memoirs in which he records that in 1881 he visited Shpole, in Russia. While there, he questioned a number of aged local residents about a curious tombstone, next to the grave of Rabbi Aryeh Leib of Shpola - known as the Shpoler Zeide ('grandfather'), on which was inscribed, "the grave of the holy martyr, Yossele the thief."

Read the story about it at ascentofsafed.com. I don't know much about the people behind the site, other than that they are apparently Jewish, but the story is a good one and shows how great courage and faith can be found even among thieves. To make the story short, 'Joe the Thief' decided to raid the local church for all it's icons, silver, gold and gems. He was however caught and sentenced to be boiled alive in a barrel of burning tar. The priest offered a way out for Joe and promised him a long life and all kinds of gifts if he only converted to Christianity. However, not willing to sell his soul to the priest, he refused, and chose rather to die a Jew than to live a Christian, or as the proverb goes: "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Thought it was a good story that could serve to show that through courage and faithfulness Heaven is within reach, even for a man who comes as a thief in the night to rob a church. The name of the priest is long forgotten, but the name of the thief will live on. Joe the Thief became a martyr, the priest forever the fool.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
When reading the following story, I came to think about the words in the title of this thread, which is from Revelation 16:15.

In 1929 there died in Jerusalem, at the age of ninety, a chassid by the name of Reb Raphael Wiltz (or Wolf) of Skoli, Galicia. He left a manuscript of memoirs in which he records that in 1881 he visited Shpole, in Russia. While there, he questioned a number of aged local residents about a curious tombstone, next to the grave of Rabbi Aryeh Leib of Shpola - known as the Shpoler Zeide ('grandfather'), on which was inscribed, "the grave of the holy martyr, Yossele the thief."

Read the story about it at ascentofsafed.com. I don't know much about the people behind the site, other than that they are apparently Jewish, but the story is a good one and shows how great courage and faith can be found even among thieves. To make the story short, 'Joe the Thief' decided to raid the local church for all it's icons, silver, gold and gems. He was however caught and sentenced to be boiled alive in a barrel of burning tar. The priest offered a way out for Joe and promised him a long life and all kinds of gifts if he only converted to Christianity. However, not willing to sell his soul to the priest, he refused, and chose rather to die a Jew than to live a Christian, or as the proverb goes: "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Thought it was a good story that could serve to show that through courage and faithfulness Heaven is within reach, even for a man who comes as a thief in the night to rob a church. The name of the priest is long forgotten, but the name of the thief will live on. Joe the Thief became a martyr, the priest forever the fool.

Unless of course all the religions are Bronze Age mythes with no real world counter part. Then they were both idiots. Joe for turning down his freedom and the priest for devoting his life to a lie....




I really hate how we are expected to just assume something science has disproven as the TRUTH, it's just silly.

Rejecting Christianity in favor of Judaism to reach heaven. The irony abounds.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
When reading the following story, I came to think about the words in the title of this thread, which is from Revelation 16:15.

In 1929 there died in Jerusalem, at the age of ninety, a chassid by the name of Reb Raphael Wiltz (or Wolf) of Skoli, Galicia. He left a manuscript of memoirs in which he records that in 1881 he visited Shpole, in Russia. While there, he questioned a number of aged local residents about a curious tombstone, next to the grave of Rabbi Aryeh Leib of Shpola - known as the Shpoler Zeide ('grandfather'), on which was inscribed, "the grave of the holy martyr, Yossele the thief."

Read the story about it at ascentofsafed.com. I don't know much about the people behind the site, other than that they are apparently Jewish, but the story is a good one and shows how great courage and faith can be found even among thieves. To make the story short, 'Joe the Thief' decided to raid the local church for all it's icons, silver, gold and gems. He was however caught and sentenced to be boiled alive in a barrel of burning tar. The priest offered a way out for Joe and promised him a long life and all kinds of gifts if he only converted to Christianity. However, not willing to sell his soul to the priest, he refused, and chose rather to die a Jew than to live a Christian, or as the proverb goes: "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Thought it was a good story that could serve to show that through courage and faithfulness Heaven is within reach, even for a man who comes as a thief in the night to rob a church. The name of the priest is long forgotten, but the name of the thief will live on. Joe the Thief became a martyr, the priest forever the fool.

Unless of course all the religions are Bronze Age mythes with no real world counter part. Then they were both idiots. Joe for turning down his freedom and the priest for devoting his life to a lie....




I really hate how we are expected to just assume something science has disproven as the TRUTH, it's just silly.

Out of curiosity, did you know almost all of the main religions stem from the same story - which is roughly at least 3000 years older than the Bible?

This same story as that on our native continents was repeated by the Incan and Mayan civilizations, seperated by vast distances and time. It is a story uttered consistently from the dawn of modern man.

You can choose to laugh at the story because you can't comprehend it in any other way than the form it was written in. That is a damn shame, but you are not alone. Most people born in today's world are indoctrined into believing these stories cannot be the product of anything other than imagination.

But that does not detract from the fact that you will find the same story in roughly the same form from the moment we started producing sophisticated writing to the very modern day. It is no-less a leap of faith to claim it is all nonsense than it is to claim it is all truth. Both depend on the action of believing rather than knowing.

Not ONE scientific discovery has disproven or excluded the overall story that we find through Religous and sacred texts. Please, provide me an example if you can think of one.

Evolution has never disproved the story, for the original Sumerian account factors in that Humans were already on Earth in some form prior to the '"God/Gods" interception. You can disprove certain texts that attempt to affirm acts that directly contradict our understanding of Evolution - but these texts are few.

I'm an agnostic, so my agenda isn't to make you see the 'light' of any specific text. But I honestly think it's premature to label it all as definite myths and then claim science has disproven them lol.

I'd say be careful with 'making your mind up' regarding these things. We don't even come close to understanding our existence and yet we already want to wrap up the past and claim we understand how it all happened.

Scientifically - our current paradigm of our history (and our existence coincidentally) has been blown apart multiple times.

Yet...why is it when we have science telling us the history is wrong, the history doesn't follow? But when science contradicts a specific line of a specific Religous or sacred text, we jump at it and say 'See! Science proves these myths wrong and our version of history right again!'.

It is so evidently biased, since the concepts in those texts and science are mutually independent things and do not directly affect eachother. All concepts in those texts can be justified as a primitive explaination of scientifically proven actions, hence rendering any form of such an argument completely useless.

The concept of a Creator or a group of Creators will NEVER die. You will NOT kill such a powerful idea with a 5-sense understanding of our world. It is a damn shame that a fascinating story of our origin has been decimated into individual sects and beliefs. That is the greatest tradegy of our history - rather than the inception of the story itself.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Rejecting Christianity in favor of Judaism to reach heaven. The irony abounds.

Wait, what? There's more than one religion? I thought there was only one god.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Rejecting Christianity in favor of Judaism to reach heaven. The irony abounds.

Wait, what? There's more than one religion? I thought there was only one god.

There have been hundreds throughout the course of history.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Rejecting Christianity in favor of Judaism to reach heaven. The irony abounds.

Wait, what? There's more than one religion? I thought there was only one god.

I went to a Chinese restaurant the other day, and saw the menu. Wait, what? There's more than one food? I thought there was only cheeseburgers and fries.

Which is the one true food? I'm going to go barging into a Mexican restaurant and demand to know!

Anyway, I like your story bud. Heaven is indeed beyond shame and shamelessness, beyond ideas of wrong and right.

a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
Rejecting Christianity in favor of Judaism to reach heaven. The irony abounds.

Wait, what? There's more than one religion? I thought there was only one god.

There have been hundreds throughout the course of history.

I posted in a sarcastic sense, I need to invent that sarcasm font.

I have no idea what story you mean? If you mean anchient alien theory, I'm open to it. But I was talking about the omnipresent omnipotent god of organized religion.

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

Relax, I found it.

www.theonion.com...

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

Relax, I found it.

www.theonion.com...

Mighty cinnamon roll I praise thee, thou have shown me the light! fluffy context of your being!

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

Relax, I found it.

www.theonion.com...

Mighty cinnamon roll I praise thee, thou have shown me the light! fluffy context of your being!

I think a pilgrimage to Scottsdale is in order. Since I did my part by finding it, you pay travel expenses.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

Relax, I found it.

www.theonion.com...

Mighty cinnamon roll I praise thee, thou have shown me the light! fluffy context of your being!

I think a pilgrimage to Scottsdale is in order. Since I did my part by finding it, you pay travel expenses.

]Im only 3 hours drive away being in Vegas, but we can't go at this time of the year, its 115° there lol

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: KnowledgeSeeker81
a reply to: BlueMule

But which food is right! There are sooo many foods!

Relax, I found it.

www.theonion.com...

Mighty cinnamon roll I praise thee, thou have shown me the light! fluffy context of your being!

I think a pilgrimage to Scottsdale is in order. Since I did my part by finding it, you pay travel expenses.

]Im only 3 hours drive away being in Vegas, but we can't go at this time of the year, its 115° there lol

Oh ye of little faith! Ye shall atone by sunburn, as you hold the Holy Parasol over my head. I, the Finder of the Roll, have spoken.

Behold, I am coming like a consumer!

Well, that thread-jacking escalated quickly.

That onion article is a classic though.

originally posted by: ArtemisE

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
When reading the following story, I came to think about the words in the title of this thread, which is from Revelation 16:15.

In 1929 there died in Jerusalem, at the age of ninety, a chassid by the name of Reb Raphael Wiltz (or Wolf) of Skoli, Galicia. He left a manuscript of memoirs in which he records that in 1881 he visited Shpole, in Russia. While there, he questioned a number of aged local residents about a curious tombstone, next to the grave of Rabbi Aryeh Leib of Shpola - known as the Shpoler Zeide ('grandfather'), on which was inscribed, "the grave of the holy martyr, Yossele the thief."

Read the story about it at ascentofsafed.com. I don't know much about the people behind the site, other than that they are apparently Jewish, but the story is a good one and shows how great courage and faith can be found even among thieves. To make the story short, 'Joe the Thief' decided to raid the local church for all it's icons, silver, gold and gems. He was however caught and sentenced to be boiled alive in a barrel of burning tar. The priest offered a way out for Joe and promised him a long life and all kinds of gifts if he only converted to Christianity. However, not willing to sell his soul to the priest, he refused, and chose rather to die a Jew than to live a Christian, or as the proverb goes: "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Thought it was a good story that could serve to show that through courage and faithfulness Heaven is within reach, even for a man who comes as a thief in the night to rob a church. The name of the priest is long forgotten, but the name of the thief will live on. Joe the Thief became a martyr, the priest forever the fool.

Unless of course all the religions are Bronze Age mythes with no real world counter part. Then they were both idiots. Joe for turning down his freedom and the priest for devoting his life to a lie....




I really hate how we are expected to just assume something science has disproven as the TRUTH, it's just silly.

The scariest part is when you realise there is real truth behind some of these 'myths' - through personal experience! I can't prove it to anyone else in a way they'd accept; but I KNOW it.

Anyone looking at what appears to be a glass stone, can't tell what it is, if it is valuable or not, unless they are looking at it with 'qualified' or 'experienced' eyes.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

In keeping with the title of this thread, and the verse you quoted, Revelation 16:15, which says in full, Remember that Christ says, "When I come, it will surprise you like a thief! But God will bless you, if you are awake and ready. Then you won't have to walk around naked and be ashamed." CEV

Obviously, some will be ready...

Interesting!

a reply to: Maigret

Looking forward to the naked part. Won't see me ashamed. It's a dream come true, where we don't wear cloathes unless it's cold. My partner in Paradise taught me that. Dragons live next door. And the Greats are across the road. And the Pope. Is dead.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
When reading the following story, I came to think about the words in the title of this thread, which is from Revelation 16:15.

In 1929 there died in Jerusalem, at the age of ninety, a chassid by the name of Reb Raphael Wiltz (or Wolf) of Skoli, Galicia. He left a manuscript of memoirs in which he records that in 1881 he visited Shpole, in Russia. While there, he questioned a number of aged local residents about a curious tombstone, next to the grave of Rabbi Aryeh Leib of Shpola - known as the Shpoler Zeide ('grandfather'), on which was inscribed, "the grave of the holy martyr, Yossele the thief."

Read the story about it at ascentofsafed.com. I don't know much about the people behind the site, other than that they are apparently Jewish, but the story is a good one and shows how great courage and faith can be found even among thieves. To make the story short, 'Joe the Thief' decided to raid the local church for all it's icons, silver, gold and gems. He was however caught and sentenced to be boiled alive in a barrel of burning tar. The priest offered a way out for Joe and promised him a long life and all kinds of gifts if he only converted to Christianity. However, not willing to sell his soul to the priest, he refused, and chose rather to die a Jew than to live a Christian, or as the proverb goes: "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Thought it was a good story that could serve to show that through courage and faithfulness Heaven is within reach, even for a man who comes as a thief in the night to rob a church. The name of the priest is long forgotten, but the name of the thief will live on. Joe the Thief became a martyr, the priest forever the fool.

Maybe the priest is a fool but so was the thief. Even the Jews knew not to steal.

I think his punishment was way too harsh but during those bad times I believe they did this to the thief to simply make an example of him so others would not follow.

Stealing from a church was and still is considered a terrible act of blasphemy.