The Tibet/Nepal Quandry....

Hawkkss man c'mon what does all that have to do with the topic at hand??!!Does that mean that China has more right to do what it wills with Nepal??!! GOD Get a life!!...Does it mean that China will win hands down in a war over tibet?? NO!
More KFCs and McDonalds will pave the way to victory for you???NO!!
Chinese live 10 years more than Indians.so?.What you going to outgrow us to victory?!!
Talk sense...Okay J-10s...where are they deployed, refueling range, missile loadout,SFPG(stick force per Gee),..
PLA.., ..deployed assets in the tibetian region..,time to shift forces from central region to tibetian region?.Also since you fail t odeny that China is pursuing Nepal, have they catered for a moderate Indian response or a full-fledgeded retaliation..?Thats what we need to talk about..Not..all that crap you keep on posting...

And whatever you say...most people agree that India has a better form of government than china..

J-10, deployed in YunNan (border with India), first batch of 50 already deployed, range=1000KM without refueling. Cannot seem to find the STFG.

Daedalus, you are making stupid posts, the "Can India Liberate Tibet" thread was one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Why is the world would Tibet ever be liberated, Tibet now has a Han majority I believe and I'll say it again, "liberation" is "invasion" alright? You liberate, the world's gonna have to do something. The Nepal/Tibet quandry was even more stupid than the "Can India Liberate Tibet" thread, yes, there are Maoists in Nepal but they are unlikely to be able to achieve enough political influence and political power to be able to do anything. For Nepal all you need is politics not war and military build up. Man stop this thread already, your posts are getting stupid.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
And whatever you say...most people agree that India has a better form of government than china..

That has a lot more to do with Western media antagonizing everyone to China's [non-existent] "communist" gov't.

A lot of people "hate" China without full knowledge of how the Chinese gov't works. They still think wage slaves are being forced at gunpoint to work in sweatshops all over China.

Far less people [think that they] know about India's gov't.

Your argument is based on th ignorance of the public rather than the objective truth.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Nox]

^^^So china is not interested in Nepal??
And where is this YunNan ..can you give me a map link?also I asked for STFG because the MiG29 has a better STFG as compared to even the F-16...

About yun Nan..this site here doesn't show it..it says you've probably got J-10s at Kungmin and mengzi by the Myanmar border...

also the J-10 is an Air superiority fighter right?..How would it fair against the MiG29 or the Su30MKI? what otherair superiority fighters does PLAAF have besides J-10 and Su-27?We've already ruled out the MKKs participating as they are not air superiority but more of a naval role..

Chinese AF bases:
www.scramble.nl...

IAF bases:
www.scramble.nl...

Note the Proximity of bases to the border on either side...

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Hawkkss man c'mon what does all that have to do with the topic at hand??!!Does that mean that China has more right to do what it wills with Nepal??!! GOD Get a life!!...Does it mean that China will win hands down in a war over tibet?? NO!

That directly shows the different standards of life and how well the people are living over there.And YES,it does make a difference,more money = more weapons,don't you know that?Since us chinese have an average lifespan 10 years longer than yours,it shows our standard of living is better(better healthcare etc).And yes we have more KFC and McDonalds outlets and more internet surfing people.That shows we are with the rest of the world in this aspect,unlike the 40% of illiterate Indians who are sitting in their well like a frog.

Yet those well-bound Indians have access to the free press, and the myriad of competative newspapers, journals and magazines as befit a free society.

China may have a ten year head start on literacy levels, but I would take the common Indian farmer with access to the world's knowlege at his fingertips would be far more informed than the rural Chinese peasant, having access to only what the government and the Chinese Communist Party dare deem him fit to know.


China had started its path to industrialization fifteen years ahead of India, and remains such today. Yet the Indian nation remains a free nation, dictated by and for its people, rather than the dictator, and, regardless of what crass economic impedance a fundimentally democratic system pays, the benefits itself of a free society, of free movement of people, and the free flow of information and ideas, translated from an ancient society to the modern days, in democracy in History's grandest form, is, itself, immeasurable.

I beg you all to give me till thursday, and I will make the time to respond to the allegations made here in this thread.

-Raj

I hate these threads. China and India should be good allies.

It's too bad that the stronger a country becomes, the more hated it attracts.

China and India are both becoming stronger and I have no doubt they'll both be dominating the Asian half of the world in the near future. It's too bad the Chinese and Indians are bickering already before we've already reached that state.

China is slowly moving towards a democracy,don't you read the news?Check out the Miss World Pagent for a start.India's democracy is beautiful?Sure,it is democracy,but how about try some other country for democracy.There are still plenty of untouchables there.Back to weaponry anyway please.

Untouchability??

Less than forty years ago in the richest, most powerful democracy in the world, an entire race of people were discriminated against in law and society.

In India, a country infinately more diverse, and a country struck hard by poverty, had since its inception in 1947 laws against the social discrimination that exists in every country. This same country has elected an 'untouchable' President, low caste prime minister, four minority presidents, and one minority prime minister, a Sikh, the same religion to which I belong.

Are you implying that the social stratification is unique to India?

In every society there exists social ills, and India is no different. And in a poor country that India is, and a victim of 300 ys of colonialization where a tyrranical foreign government instituted laws and practices that purposefully exacerbated this, that India made such incredible strides (and continues to do so!), within a free system where the socially and economically destitute have a voice, is a feat unparallelled in the history of humanity.


Shall we really compare this to China, which in 50 years saw the state-sponsored genocide of millions, incredible intolerance for minority races and religions, complete suppression of the fundamental rights of over a billion, and till this very day continues to consciously, officially erase the culture of territories it has invaded by force?

...a country that has stripped the rights and the lives of more of its citizens than the population of the rest of Asia combined?


Are you, a supporter of the PRC, seriously casting China's social ills in a better life than India's?


I'd if the nature of the PRCs transgressions against humanity weren't so terrible, and your hypocracies so distasteful.

-Raj

[edit on 8-12-2004 by rajkhalsa2004]

Ok, I'll try to stay on topic here, but these are only my opinions from my own personal experience.First, Tibet will never be "liberated" as some here suggest if nepal was invaded.My reasoning is very simple on this matter too.When the chinese invaded back in the day it was sad, but that is the PAST, just like when we(the US) came to america.We did the same things to the native indians.But over time inter marrying happens, as it is in tibet now.If they(India) did try to liberate tibet they would not be liberating Tibetens.Why? because they have children together.you would be liberating an intermixed area.It just wouldnt work.As far as millitary goes, China IS the better.Simply compare an average soldier from each county.The chinese, on a 1 to 1 basis would win simply from better martial knowledge and fighting experience.From childhood up an average chinese citizen is well learned in fighting arts.This is not the same in India.Also the US will never fight China, we are to good of friends, not to mention they have been working twords democracy for awhile now.There is no reason why we would care about India and Nepal, unless they harbor terrorists.Anyway, if china could give a better starndard of living to those in Nepal I would support it. Xing-Yi Quan forever my chinese friends, we practice the same techniques, so I trust you.

Also the caste system is alive and well in india,PBS and the BBC have shown proof of this through various articles and documentarys.I will give an example too.Recently china built a damn for hydro electricity that displaced thousands of chinese, but the goverment there paid to relocate and compensate them all.Now, on the other hand India built a similar hyro-electric damn but did nothing for the people it displaced, except flooding thier famliys farms and lands with a 500$ compensation or nothing at all.Now why did they flood these people out, simple, they where considered lower than those in the citys and not worth even dealing with them.That is not a democracy.Also I Know many people that have lived or visited china, and only had wonderful things to say.Personal accounts of visits to india sounded horrible from everyone that I have talked with....INCLUDING people who fled india because of the unfair and horrible conditions.I would suggest going into the countryside of india instead of the citys for an accurate look of your country.From personal accounts from Indians and other sources its truly hellish....they still get the plague in some areas of india still..WTF!

Yes,watched the last season of the amazing race?One part of the race was in Calcutta,everyone thought it was a low down place.It seems to be time for a classic remark,feed your people before you spend money on weapons.

That's slightly biased though, because obviously you relate to the Chinese more, so more of your friends are likely to be Chinese.

Of course they'll have nothing but positive things to say about China (most people who visit China only visit urban areas).

India's fine. It'll start changing for the better once it starts getting more attention and international criticism of the caste system becomes an issue.

Well, my opinion of India is based on what a fellow co-worker(from northern India) told me.Her biggest complaint was the rampant disease, as mistreatment by the goverment in her native area.I'm not sure if what I was told is still as prevelent as when she lived there though, and I'll admit to that(she fled India 1987).But I have seen very recent accounts from BBC about very caste like laws and attitudes(I'll see if I can get some good links on it).I am aware that rural china is differnt than the citys as well.But, I have contacts with many people from those rural areas(through martial arts).I just don't see how india would even consider going up into Tibet as the population is so mixed at this point.I would say that if there are moaist type people in Nepal they are a very small minority, and are a "dying breed".Nothing to really worry about.Why exactly would china want nepal anyway? Tea&Spice maybe? Also wouldnt Hong Kong be sort of the new chinese "model" of stucture. I dont think any sane chinese person would want to relive the cultural revolution of the 30's, or even the boxer rebellion for that matter.From the 70's till today they have been making sweeping changes.India, although they are modernizing, they started to soon IMHO.I think when england invaded they did more harm than good as most of India didnt benefit.I mean they have computers,cell phones, AND the plauge.There is something wrong with that picture.I agree with the feed and clothe your selves before you make a sword position.Anyway, its just my position and opinion based on what I hear.I just think India is getting ahead of the horse a bit.I dont really think anyone would even want to invade India anyway.But if someone has any links on maybe why they would(like pakistan) invade I would gladly read them.

Originally posted by rajkhalsa2004


Shall we really compare this to China, which in 50 years saw the state-sponsored genocide of millions, incredible intolerance for minority races and religions, complete suppression of the fundamental rights of over a billion, and till this very day continues to consciously, officially erase the culture of territories it has invaded by force?

...a country that has stripped the rights and the lives of more of its citizens than the population of the rest of Asia combined?


-Raj

[edit on 8-12-2004 by rajkhalsa2004]

Actually, where in the world did you get the genocide of millions from? All races are considered the same in China dumbo. 92+% of China is Atheist, and half the people who have religions are half believers (meaning pay respect but don't believe in it). Hey, I wouldn't be talking about stripping rights because if your gonna talk about that, read something about your country first and once your country finished its reform so they are really "Democratic and equal" then talk about the Chinese past because those things you have mentioned does not exist anymore. The past talks tells nothing of the future because the past contains decisions we have already made and the future are full of decisions yet to be made.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
China is slowly moving towards a democracy,don't you read the news?Check out the Miss World Pagent for a start.India's democracy is beautiful?Sure,it is democracy,but how about try some other country for democracy.There are still plenty of untouchables there.Back to weaponry anyway please.

haha...how many times hs China won that?!!
India..umm..lets see...1..2...3..4 times?

back to weaponry

Replying to W4rlrd,

what I meant to say was that all the KFC,McDonalds, 10 years of extra life will not mean ANYTHING in a war NOW!!What you going to do...Throw chicken wings and mig MaCs at us?
The state of the Indian destitute has nothing to do with the Indian military..miles apart they are my friend..same with China..thats why i say stick to weaponry and logistics....everything else does not play into a war equation...

Replying to Basket

You see, as I've mentioned before I myself stay in India,..thats an advantage IMHO no chinese has on this forum..so commenting on problems at the grassroot level from foreign lands is abs retarted in both cases, chinese and Indian..You seem to know an Indian who fled India..but don't tell me there isn't a single chinese who has fled china and has similar tales of sadness and oppression...C'mon be reasonable..Also like I've mentioned before due to the free press,media access that India allows, such criticism from BBC, PBS..etc. will always be there..its constructive..China does not allow the same..we all agree on that..So all the dirt you see on India is true I accept..but just because there's so little on china doesn't mean that there's none over there..chinese oppression of media is world-reknowned! Another way to compare the lving conditions in both the countries is to see whether people have actually fled from India to China or vice versa..Now correct me if im wrong but I don't know of any 'poor' Indians (like your woman friend) who have fled to CHINA from INDIA...On the other hand there are loads of Chinese(tibetians) who have fled India..they regularly protest outside the chinese embassy!!

Stumped you there haven't I basketman??!!

And you said that if China could offer nepal a better standard of living then you were for nepals annexation..well with that logic the US has every right to annex half the bloody world!!
Your arguement is FLAWED!! China goes into Nepal..India will respond and tibet will be the price

Fair enough, like I said, all I have to go on is things I've heard from persons of both countrys and news accounts.I'm still having a hard time in seeing WHY China would want Nepal in the first place.If any body has some links to news sources as to why an invasion would happen, I would love to read them.I would still say chinese(in a close quarters/hand to hand) would have a slight advantage.As far as the machines of both sides, they might not come into play as much as gurilla fighting would(using the Iraq war as an example terrorists vs. USA).Anyway post any good links if you have them, I'll be sure to read up on them.

why is it that these chicoms have so much insecurity, that they have to bash up every thread an indian starts?

what is it with these ppl??

Originally posted by aryaputhra
why is it that these chicoms have so much insecurity, that they have to bash up every thread an indian starts?

what is it with these ppl??

The inherent hypocrisy of this post is amusing.
You do realize that the Indian that started this thread practically INVITED the "chicoms" to bash this thread up.

Any "which country is better?" thread (which is essentially what this thread is) invites flaming and "bashing".

You should be smart enough to know why.