SCI/TECH: Cannabis linked to mental illness risk

Originally posted by df1
I trust an individual being in CONTROL of what he consumes more than I trust government being in CONTROL.

I fully understand use in moderation has no major negative consequences, but the fact remains the vast majority of marijuana users do not use in moderation. They smoke daily. This is when brain chemistry suffers long-term alteration. This is when problems happen. And just like with alcoholism, this is when the law has no choice but to intervene. For the safety of everyone else.

Maybe if you got "F-ed Up" once in awhile you wouldnt be so hell bent on using the power of govenment to impose your personal beliefs on everyone else.

Well, if you must know, I'm pretty alkified presently. And these are not personal beliefs... they are fact derived from observation and multiple studies.

Originally posted by ANOK
LOL, what? You got something against people having a good time?

Only when it endangers the safety of the innocent. Or causes long term brain damage, resulting in yet another worthless addict to suckle the tit of the system. Then again, they do pay court costs... usually.

Most of us don't smoke to get "F-ed Up"(sic), we smoke because it allows us to do the normal things everybody does but with more focus.

Riiiiiiiight. I told myself that one before, too. Sorry... it's wrong.

ANOK... you seem to ignore my previous admittance... I USED TO BE A HABITUAL POTHEAD. I grew up.

Originally posted by apc

Originally posted by df1
I trust an individual being in CONTROL of what he consumes more than I trust government being in CONTROL.

I fully understand use in moderation has no major negative consequences, but the fact remains the vast majority of marijuana users do not use in moderation. They smoke daily. This is when brain chemistry suffers long-term alteration. This is when problems happen. And just like with alcoholism, this is when the law has no choice but to intervene. For the safety of everyone else.

Maybe if you got "F-ed Up" once in awhile you wouldnt be so hell bent on using the power of govenment to impose your personal beliefs on everyone else.

Well, if you must know, I'm pretty alkified presently. And these are not personal beliefs... they are fact derived from observation and multiple studies.

Originally posted by ANOK
LOL, what? You got something against people having a good time?

Only when it endangers the safety of the innocent. Or causes long term brain damage, resulting in yet another worthless addict to suckle the tit of the system. Then again, they do pay court costs... usually.

Most of us don't smoke to get "F-ed Up"(sic), we smoke because it allows us to do the normal things everybody does but with more focus.

Riiiiiiiight. I told myself that one before, too. Sorry... it's wrong.

ANOK... you seem to ignore my previous admittance... I USED TO BE A HABITUAL POTHEAD. I grew up.

what scientific studies are you basing this on? what do you know about the brain that all the leading scientist in the world are still trying to figure out? if responcibility got in the way of spending more time in your own head, probably kids or your new girlfriend didn't approve, doesn't give you the right to stand on the other side of the fence and preach. if you could you would love to spend the rest of your life in peace with a pipe, only concerning yourself with a hungry belly and staying in the shade, but like everyone else you got caught in the money trap, no time for a deeper understanding because you got a mortgage and a demanding life (wife).

i personally think the US government is scared that if it was legal to grow and smoke pot, nobody would be buying thier imported hieroin, no wonder extacy and chrystal meth piss the government off so much, they cant cant make any money importing something that the citizens can produce at home. when's the last time we heard of one of those whopper cocain or hieroin busts, lately its all been crystal meth and extacy.

i know, i know, im a pot head... i must be trippin

Originally posted by apc
Riiiiiiiight. I told myself that one before, too. Sorry... it's wrong.

Oh? Tell that to the thousands of musicians, sports players, and actors that would agree with me. Sorry but you are wrong and obviously ill-informed.
Just because it didn't work for you...

ANOK... you seem to ignore my previous admittance... I USED TO BE A HABITUAL POTHEAD. I grew up.

Oh you used to be a pot head? And you think that makes you the expert on it all?
I've heard of people who can die from eating chocolate, does that mean I'm going to?
Grew up from what? This is not a question of maturity. What do you call habitual and what exactly were you smoking?
Whatever it was, you were not using it right. Your fault, not the weeds old chap.

Apc I AM a pot head and have been for a looong time budy, for medical reasons nowadays. I easily quit for the 6 yrs I was in the Military. I've grown rooms full of it. So telling me you used to be a pot head don't really mean much.
And if it effects our brain as much as you think it does then maybe it's effecting you now How is your memory? Maybe you forget how good the devil smoke is? Maybe you forgot how to have a good time and let go of the anger?

"Can I 'ave my ball back mister?"

Why do you care about people smoking pot so much? One of the least harmful substances we have? A substance that can, and does, improve the lives of thousands of ADULTS everywhere.

The powers that be are dragging up any lame ass story they can find to discredit the beneficial use of marijuana. Maybe as a member of a conspiracy forum you should dig a little deeper.

Your perception of pot smokers seems to come from badly made 80's college movies.

Heads Up

Since the first message did not take I will repeat it here (and if further violations persist, I will take stronger action so please pay attention)

While this is certainly an intersting topic and worth of debate here on ATS I need to remind all participants that discussion of drug use is not allowed in the forums per the Terms and Conditions of the site;

16.) Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

So on that note, please do not interject your personal use or those you know within the context of this debate.

Thanks
FredT

im canadian, smoking pot IS NOT ILLEGAL but i guess once again US policy is most post important.

whatever its not like anyone had any facts about this anyway,

Denial is not a river in Egypt but makes a good excuse for a chemical addict who can't handle reality on a clean platter.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Denial is not a river in Egypt but makes a good excuse for a chemical addict who can't handle reality on a clean platter.

Who says we have to?

Darwin, forefather of proving denial leads to higher mortality rates when the proverbial schit hits the fan. But it's always your choice to play the cripple and grab a crutch.

Either that or denial leads to breaking local laws and a cell with Big Leroy, isn't that special.

Funny how the dance of fools has a price to pay in an ordered universe...cha-ching, I hear the Piper coming to a head near you.


[edit on 18-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Darwin, forefather of proving denial leads to higher mortality rates when the proverbial schit hits the fan. But it's always your choice to play the cripple and grab a crutch.

Either or denial leads to breaking local laws and a cell with Big Leroy, isn't that special. Funny how the dance of fools has a price in an ordered universe.

[edit on 18-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

So whats the difference in having a drink at the end of hard day and a spliff, apart from the obvious Legal issues (which forms no basis in natural selection, it is merely the subject of opinion)....

Is it ok for people to use one chemical and not the other based entirely on outdated and ill thought out legislation? If, for example, canabis wasn't banned in the 30's and was sold alongside Alcohol, would you still have a negative view of it? Not likely, as you wouldn't have been told it was bad, therefore you wouldn't be stuck in your thinking rut now.

Besides, i think having a conversation with anyone from the US about any sort of substance use is skewed, as you guys don't even drink properly! How can we expect you too see our point of view on cannabis when you have such a funny attitude towards drinking.

Boils down to prohibition and that crappy piece of ancient fiction known as the Bible, I suppose.

Land of the Free...Indeed...Land of the Free to do as your Told or what the Bible lets you more like.

For all you US smokers out there tired of the Religious doo-gooders and the wholly uninteresting we-know-whats-best for you crowd...come to Europe...we have far for freedom than you guys seem too.

The only thing you have over us is Gun Ownership and possibly, in some states, the ability to marry ones daughter

You have obviously confused me with someone else, considering I am a Swiss national, don't drink, smoke or make up excuses to cripple myself and waste my potential.

Denial will teach everyone a lesson given time, and I have NEVER been wrong in those regards. Bank on it, meanwhile profits are to be made on sheeple that can't handle reality without drug crutches.

There's always a price to be paid irregardless of what the foolish ego wants to rationalize towards hedonistic self gratifying nonsense. You only fool yourself so keep smoking, eyes wide open might kill ya anyways.

You have chosen to be a slave.

I have chosen freedom from dependencies.

You lose...



[edit on 18-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Nonsense.

Victimless crime = Worthless Statute.

Vast majority of people with mental illness have never smoked pot = Mental illness risk tied to water/air/automobiles/television (that last one especially...)

Just another excuse to criminalize vast tracts of humanity to increase the burden on the citizens of this once-free country. We're paying for the upkeep of the security apparatus that is hell bent on our incarceration and marginilization. How does it feel to pay the wages of your own executioner?

Pretty miserable. I did it for a long time, then I got wise. If you like funding this corrupt and insane government, go ahead and keep paying taxes. I manage to get by with less than the minimum to file every year, so can everyone else.

I have some questions also, maybe someone on this thread can provide evidence to answer these:

Do people with extra cannabinoid receptors go insane more often? Has this study even been done yet?

Do people with extra cannabinoid receptors have higher than average IQs? Is their performance on standardized tests better stoned or straight?

When in the evolutionary development of our species did cannabinoid receptors enter the picture? Do any other creatures share this receptor?

There is a lot about cannabis we don't know. I think it behooves the scientific establishment to do some meaningful research regarding this miraculous plant, instead of wasting all their time ressurecting fears from the Reefer Madness era.

Anyone remember why the stuff was outlawed in the first place? It's a very interesting, and incredibly sordid tale, well worth the research for those who actually want to know. Most are content to simply shoot off their mouths and assume it's illegal for good reasons. Trust in government, if only it weren't so prevalent, we might be advancing a little instead of wallowing in this cultural tar pit.

Two final points. This was a survey, not an experiment. Show me results that prove marijuana users are compelled to commit criminal acts because of the effects of marijuana, and I'll read it with interest. Society should, indeed, lock people up when they commit a crime, that's basically the only useful function served by the State. Locking up people who smoke herb because they MIGHT commit a crime, is fine by me, as long as I can place every politician and every cop under citizens arrest for the same reason. Power is a far more addictive drug than pot, this is proven and well understood.

Burning a garden variety herb and inhaling the fumes is NOT a crime. It's a freakin' hobby for some, an occasional indulgence for others, and an addiction for an unfortunate few. People get addicted to cough syrup and pain killers, but since those drugs serve a useful purpose they are legal and freely available. The same should be true of cannabis. Studies show cannabis reduces stress, and aids in the relief of literally thousands of symptoms.

Until cannabis is legalized, you can't trust a goddamn thing the government says or does. They've been staunchly supporting their buddies in industry since this debacle began. They chose Dupont over the American people, and they have yet to correct their error. Their allegiances lie in that corner to this day. The American government does NOT work for the American people who fight and die to protect it. That is the real travesty. Not some recreational grass-igniter playing Tecmo Bowl in his parents' basement.

Locking people up for cannabis use is insane. Only an insane society would go about their business while hundreds of thousands of innocent people rot in jail.

This damn propaganda machine needs to stop picking on a mostly harmless plant!

Tobacco is linked much more to mental illness than Cannabis, based on my personal observations. Cannabis has the opposite effect, I have known many who without any chemicals in them are prone to violent fits of rage, depression, and other mental illness symptomns, and you know what happens when they smoke some pot; they become calm and happy and are much better off than they would be on any pharmaceudical drug out there.

Yes it is probaly true that someone who is suffering from mental illness is more likely to smoke cannabis than someone who is AOK. Given that I think you can see where the statistic to this topic came from. Cannabis doesn't make someone metally ill but is just more likely to be used by someone who is.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
You have obviously confused me with someone else, considering I am a Swiss national, don't drink, smoke or make up excuses to cripple myself and waste my potential.

Denial will teach everyone a lesson given time, and I have NEVER been wrong in those regards. Bank on it, meanwhile profits are to be made on sheeple that can't handle reality without drug crutches.

There's always a price to be paid irregardless of what the foolish ego wants to rationalize towards hedonistic self gratifying nonsense. You only fool yourself so keep smoking, eyes wide open might kill ya anyways.

Seems you have also confused me (and many others) with something else also. The US jab is at the majority who have come on this thread to spout the self-righteous BS.

Who said I was wasting my potential, I most certainly am not? I have a very good job and I have a child.

Why is it crippling oneself just because you may like a drink/smoke. It isn't being in denial, it is enjoying the feeling/sensation it gives. Much like sex..

There are those who will use drugs/drink to escape from reality, but that is no different from the brain dead morons who gawp at Big Survivor Idol 234 for days or weeks on end.

That is escapism, same with computer games, Art or pornography. in fact, everything we do that isn't part of the daily grind is escapism. It is needed, a release from the daily pressures and a chance to expierience something "out of the norm", either for interest or enjoyment, or perhaps both.

To live life completely devoted to reality with no fantasy or enjoyment is to waste your potential there and to become a robot.

You lambast the sheeple for their need to "deny reality" but your own denial of sensation or pleasure is making you worse than a sheeple. If you could honestly say that you do not "deny reality" in anyway, shape or form, then I pity you. One of the most awesome things about the human mind is the ability to feel and to imagine.

Just to set the record straight. Cannabis does not cause metal problems. it may help trigger those already pre-disposed to being a nut case, but then so will alcohol.

Cannabis cannot kill you.

Alcohol can..and does.

Cannabis is not addictive. As I sit here now, at work, 4 hours into a twelve hour shift, the only thing I desire is a ciggarette.

If I was an Alcoholic, I would either be in the toilets swigging my hip flask, or not be in work at all.

You can smoke to your hearts content and go to work the next day

Try that on drink.

Also worth noting is the way in which it is msoked in the US and the UK. As I understand it, the Yanks like to go way overboard (as usual) and smoke an 1/8th in one big spliff called a "Blunt", with no tobacco mix. Here in the UK we are far more sensible and smoke a lot less mixed in with Tobacco. maybe that is why it gets a bad name out in the US, as they have no self control and get all trippy on it.

But that is the same as drinking one beer compared to 20 beers.

Self control.

But if the powers that be have decided we can have alcohol, then surely we can be trusted with a bit of Weed?

Maybe we can if the doo-gooders and bible freaks would just back off interfering with everyones lives and take a long look at their own, meaningless existences before fiddling with ours!

You have chosen to be a slave.

Incorrect. The system made slaves of users by nullifying the sanctity of personal choice and personal responsibility. Those who continue to smoke cannabis in defiance of the law are using their freedom of choice.

Your desire to be better than others is transparent and was likely spawned by some deep seated neurosis. You will never be better than others, it's not possible since we all start as fertilizer and end in similar fashion. Religion sells dreams of superiority, but I'm certain those dreams will remain perpetually distant.

I have chosen freedom from dependencies.

Are you religious at all? That's the mother load of dependencies. There is nothing more dependent, more in need of a crutch, than a man who's, deep down, afraid of death without the fantasy of eternal life to steel his nerves.

Everyone's addicted to something, it's human nature. You're in denial.

You lose...

That remains to be seen, since the battle is nowhere near over. Judging by your cocky attitude though, I'd say victory is a long shot for ya'.

If you really take pleasure in the thought of innocent potheads getting raped in jail, I think hell will find a special place for you, if you believe in such nonsense that is.

Study finds cannabis triggers transient schizophrenia-like symptoms
The findings of this study go along with several other lines of evidence that suggest a contribution of cannabis and/or abnormalities in the brain cannabinoid receptor system to the pathophysiology of schizophrenia.
www.eurekalert.org...

Of cannabis and psychosis
Just under 20 years ago research done by Swedish chemists at the Karolinksa Institute in Huddinge suggested that cannabis use could result in long-term mental health problems. They discovered that men who had smoked cannabis before they did National Service (aged 18–20) were six times more likely to be hospitalised with schizophrenia.
www.rsc.org...

Schizophrenia Society of Sask. Warns Doctors of Marijuana Risk
Doctors should be wary when asked to prescribe medical marijuana, says the Schizophrenia Society of Saskatchewan. "Marijuana is detrimental to someone who has schizophrenia. It's a bad mix," said Kathleen Thompson, executive director of the Schizophrenia Society of Saskatchewan.
www.canada.com...

Cannabis linked to bone disease
Scottish scientists found that the drug can cause increased bone loss, which in turn leads to osteoporosis. The findings add to a growing body of evidence on the dangers of cannabis and prompted campaigners to renew their calls for the government to rethink its drugs law.
thescotsman.scotsman.com...

10 billion articles later denial of science is still ruled good for rationalizing fools who can't follow nature's rules....news at 11.

The world needs more hamburger flippers.

Cannibus Beneficial

Blah, blah, blah.

You've got studies, I've got studies.

How about we agree that the government's place is to protect citizens from each other, not themselves, and then we can just call the whole question moot?

The State is not my mother. The State is not my father. The State is my servant, my bodyguard against enemies foreign and domestic, my shield and my sword.

The State has forgotten its place, and needs to be reminded of its duties. For too long the American people have been a slave to their own twisted creation. It's their own fault, and if they ever manage to find the will, it will be their responsibility to remedy the situation.

I have no pity for those who allow themselves to be subdued. What I do find offensive is those who sit on the sidelines and cheer on the bully while he beats other kids up.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Those who continue to smoke cannabis in defiance of the law are using their freedom of choice.

Cut of your arm and feel the freedom then...great analogy you have.

Jail does nothing but increase the prison population and is not an effective means to eliminating mental illness or drug dependencies, but the reality is you have to be damn stupid to risk jail time by smoking dope in order to toss off your brain for a couple hours in wasted nothingness.

Go sell your institutionalize religon story to the Sun, maybe they will buy it. I think you have chosen the "hard matter of fact lesson" for your chemical road journey and I would bet heavy you will get just that.

You presume way too much, which points to psychosis. Make it up as you go along ehh? The brick wall of reality is looming in the headlights, the question is will you be too stoned to see it.

I don't need pulling down into your non-coping dependency world and have no need for drugs to chain me to the machine, that's your life..remember?



[edit on 18-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Study finds cannabis triggers transient schizophrenia-like symptoms
The findings of this study go along with several other lines of evidence that suggest a contribution of cannabis and/or abnormalities in the brain cannabinoid receptor system to the pathophysiology of schizophrenia.
www.eurekalert.org...

Of cannabis and psychosis
Just under 20 years ago research done by Swedish chemists at the Karolinksa Institute in Huddinge suggested that cannabis use could result in long-term mental health problems. They discovered that men who had smoked cannabis before they did National Service (aged 18–20) were six times more likely to be hospitalised with schizophrenia.
www.rsc.org...

Schizophrenia Society of Sask. Warns Doctors of Marijuana Risk
Doctors should be wary when asked to prescribe medical marijuana, says the Schizophrenia Society of Saskatchewan. "Marijuana is detrimental to someone who has schizophrenia. It's a bad mix," said Kathleen Thompson, executive director of the Schizophrenia Society of Saskatchewan.
www.canada.com...

Cannabis linked to bone disease
Scottish scientists found that the drug can cause increased bone loss, which in turn leads to osteoporosis. The findings add to a growing body of evidence on the dangers of cannabis and prompted campaigners to renew their calls for the government to rethink its drugs law.
thescotsman.scotsman.com...

10 billion articles later denial of science is still ruled good for rationalizing fools who can't follow nature's rules....news at 11.

The world needs more hamburger flippers.

Quote as many of these biased (yes, the groups with vested interests pay for these"studies") as you like as I can do the same.

However, I can speak from personal experience, which is worth more than a bunch of white-coats going over meaningless statistical research (and we all know statistics can be manipulated) who, in all likleyhood, wouldn't know a joint if it was stuck up their nose.

I am not psycho, not are my friends. I can think of one person, out of the dozens i know who smoke, that is a bit on the slow side, but he started out that way ... I have seen no first hand accounts of any of the scare stories that get dragged up with regards to cannabis. However, I have plenty of friends who have had multiple arrests after getting into fights/criminal damage when DRUNK....

Hamburger flipper? Not likely mate so keep your assumptions to yourself. Telecoms Engineer is me. Soon to start studying for my BSc in Physics (with Astrophysics)...might take the MBA in Business as well, if I have the spare cash. Although I do like Chemistry...or Engineering....ooooh....the choices are endless.....really limiting my potential there aren't I?

Originally posted by stumason

Hamburger flipper? Not likely mate so keep your assumptions to yourself. Telecoms Engineer is me. Soon to start studying for my BSc in Physics (with Astrophysics)...might take the MBA in Business as well, if I have the spare cash. Although I do like Chemistry...or Engineering....ooooh....the choices are endless.....really limiting my potential there aren't I?

The system wants you to be a drughead, your are easier to control, manage and no threat to the power structure.

Uh-huh and I am Lord Byron too. Go fool yourself, I am not blind.





[edit on 18-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Cannibus Beneficial
How about we agree that the government's place is to protect citizens from each other, not themselves, and then we can just call the whole question moot?

Many Libertarian policies are valid and I would say big brother/big gov should butt out of personal choices as long as those choices don't become a burden on society or decrease it's efficiency. But until the current power structure changes and the black market remains, illegal drug use is damaging society.

BUT, I deal in the now and that now is understanding why people seek to escape thru chemical brain alteration, if the view themselves as sane. I see no point to recreational drug usage besides a waste of time, money and potential.