Spying on us all...

I've come across some promising (I think it's promising because left & right are working together) news on the ever growing "Security State"

The first one is from the ACLU "Beware the Dangers of Congress' Latest Cybersecurity Bill" at

www.aclu.org...

a couple of quotes to puruse:

The Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2014 ("CISA") was scheduled to be marked up by the Senate Intelligence Committee yesterday but has been delayed until after next week's congressional recess. The response to the proposed legislation from the privacy, civil liberties, tech, and open government communities was quick and unequivocal – this bill must not go through.

The bill would create a massive loophole in our existing privacy laws by allowing the government to ask companies for "voluntary" cooperation in sharing information, including the content of our communications, for cybersecurity purposes. But the definition they are using for the so-called "cybersecurity information" is so broad it could sweep up huge amounts of innocent Americans' personal data.

In the wake of Germany ending a contract with Verizon over concerns, this could prompt some degree of Corporate responsibility but I doubt it, as the US Government is one of the communications giants bigest customers. It would be a win for the world if other countries 'divested' from US Communications Companies.

phys.org...

The German government is ending a contract with Verizon over fears the company could be letting U.S. intelligence agencies eavesdrop on sensitive communications, officials said Thursday.

"There are indications that Verizon is legally required to provide certain things to the NSA, and that's one of the reasons the cooperation with Verizon won't continue," said Plate.

Then we have Greenpeace protesting at the Data Collection Center in Utah:

greenpeaceblogs.org...

That’s why today, Greenpeace joined with the digital rights watchdog Electronic Frontier Foundation and the conservative Tenth Amendment Center to fly our airship over the NSA’s data center in Utah to protest the government’s illegal mass surveillance program.

Tenth Amendment Center is a States Rights Organization that can be found here:

tenthamendmentcenter.com...

All leading to a true coliation of Left/Right at standagainstspying.org...

Which includes the following groups:



There are so many issues that left and right agree on and if we learn to work together on them perhaps we'll learn to HEAR each other on other subjects as well.

This needs to be check-mated before it even gets into a Senate vote.

If that doesn't work, protesting the House Members might.

In an election year they might listen enough to delay.

But watch out next year.

If they spy on everyone, how am I supposed to feel special anymore. How depressing.

The issues are still grossly misunderstood by low-information voters.

The 'threat' comes not from the NSA. They're simply doing the government's bidding.

The real threat comes from corporate and political interests.

Your information is for sale.

Then you will have the people that say if you don't have anything to hide then you shouldnt worry about it. And that's not the point if you are OK with them spying on everyone and everything then it's like agreeing to being owned and monitored like cattle in the field which is the way the government sees us anyway.

a reply to: Snarl

The real threat comes from corporate and political interests.

Your information is for sale.

They can try to sell me all the crap they want, I don't have any money to buy it anyway.

Nyah, nyah.

As far as some bill giving government permission to collect data? Isn't that what all the hubbub is about? They already do that. Just like every company collects employee taxes for the government so do they allow government access to any of their data on you. They have to or else, poof…. a cloud of smoke.

a reply to: intrptr

I'm not sure if I understand what you understand at all. I will if you answer the following question with one word (either "yes" ... or "no"): Did James R. Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence, lie to the Senate Judiciary on Capitol Hill, March 12, 2013 in Washington, DC?

I'm sure we all recall.

Back at an open congressional hearing on March 12, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) asked Clapper, “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” Clapper replied, “No sir … not wittingly.”

a reply to: Snarl

Yes they said that (directly denying the truth).

Let me reiterate. I quoted part of your post thus…

The real threat comes from corporate and political interests.

Your information is for sale.

They sell the info about your consumption habits to other companies to better target you with focused advertising circulars in the mail and online. My joke about that was go ahead, I can't afford anything anyway, (lol).

The other part I said, They have always collected data secretly on some level and denied that in public is also simple enough to my eyes.

Let me give you another example. (Besides the tax collection by your employer).

The video that Manning released of American helo crews targeting journalists is a direct violation of every ROE and they so hated being exposed for this in the main stream. Flies in the face of all the humanitarian claims about the "mission" there.

The whole world had irrefutable direct evidence of the reality of the situation in well, in every country targeted by the West. That killing of the journalist TV crew wasnt supposed to be aired publicly and can't be denied like Snowdens revelations. In the latter case there are no videos leaked of NSA tapping into central cable trunks to collect data surreptitiously. But I think you know it goes on. So do they and they will never admit it.

If that helps. Don't presume Snarl to subject me to a court style questioning session with "Yes or no will do". This is not a court and you are not a prosecutor. Hope I didn't further offend you with more than yes or no.

a reply to: intrptr

Hope I didn't further offend you with more than yes or no.

##SNIPPED##

So, now that I have a keyboard, I will explain my observations of what transpired in that particular session of Congress.

First we have to examine the set and setting. A location where a lynch mob of elected officials has gathered. One of the three most powerful unelected officials on the planet has been compelled to appear before them. Everything that will happen will take place in the public venue (this cannot be understated). Questions of National Security will be addressed. Did the pieces of the puzzle just fall into place?

Let's take a look at what is not common knowledge. This must be prefaced with what many of us have seen with our own eyes. A congressman ... in a public venue ... who will not, himself, divulge certain information "because that information is classified."They may make a mockery of it, but they know the law and they don't trifle with it.

So ... they get Clapper up there to answer 'the questions.' They know they've got a really, really, really intelligent guy in front of them. Clapper knows he's facing a group of really smart individuals whose collective intelligence, wiliness, experience, doggedness, and desire to embarrass ... cannot be rivaled (except for maybe in a British Court of law -grin-). ... And, when they finally get down to the jiggy, they ask him the question (in public mind you) ... that virtually requires him to divulge classified defense information causing 'exceptionally grave damage' to the national security of the United States of America.

Only ... he's 'prepared' for that. He answers in a very narrow band of truth. He says, "No."

You see, the truth can be found behind this five second video.It's all about definition. What does the word "collect" mean? For the layman, collect means to find, gather and store something of a material nature. In the Intel business, it means to actively (by force of law) acquire. Now those may be pretty rough definitions. I didn't go out there and look them up like I did those previous videos. I'm 'drawing' on previous first-hand experience.

You probably know right now ... if you were baiting me ... you've got me hook, line, and sinker.

When Clapper said, "No." he was telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Just because the layman can't see the truth, right in front of his own eyes, doesn't mean a lie was conveyed. The NSA doesn't collect information on the American people, they don't gather information on the American people ... they are, in fact, given information on the American people. ANYTHING they do with THAT kind of information is NOT currently subject to LAW. However ... comma ... it is subject to compensation. Now ask yourself, "What is the black budget for again?"

Can you now understand why Snowden ran? First to China ... then to Russia ... and yet, Clapper didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Clapper was humiliated in front of the entire world, because his agency employed a mole. He was punished ... and 99.99% of everyone ... everywhere ... will never understand.


##SNIPPED##

-Cheers

a reply to: FyreByrd


Good and so they should and they have the right!! WHY???

BEcause, any idiot that expresses their inner most ideas, plans and thoughts through any form of technology is a damn fool and should be looked at more closely!!

IF you can't be bothered to learn and learn quick then you will always be one step behind.

What happened to communicating through person-to-person, face-to-face somewhere private and secure????

If you are dumb enough to release private comms into cyberspace then it doesn't belong to you anymore!!

a reply to: Snarl

Is this one of those debates where the replies get longer until filling half pages? Borrring…

they don't gather information on the American people … they are, in fact, given information on the American people

This is semantics. Of course they gather (retain) the data given them (upon request). I don't think we actually disagree on this, maybe we are just misunderstanding each others point of view? Companies like Google and Facebook (all in fact) agree to government requests for information, before they are allowed to even exist. (The BIG terms).

They say "when necessary" but really its all encompassing. What are those vast data banks like the one in Utah there for? Not only is the government directly monitoring internet and phone traffic all the time with keyword actuated recording, but they are storing it all for ("just in case") future use.

The difference between admitting that and not in public view is irrelevant. Everyone knows the truth.

You can continue to try and convince me otherwise, but I hardly believe anything my government tells me anymore throughout the dog and pony show main stream.

A_N_Y_T_H_I_ N_G

Sorry to have this disagreement with you about this, I regularly enjoy your input here and am hopefully wondering if we aren't just misunderstanding each other…

a reply to: Snarl

Ummm... The NSA is part of the Federal Government.

a reply to: projectbane

Well seeing as you choose not to express yourself electronically, I guess you've missed the bit in the US Constituion' s4th Amendment about:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects[a], against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...