Missing Israeli Teens Found Dead near Hebron

a reply to: cody599

The problem is that a home made rocket does not quite have the same effect as phosphorus bombs fired into civilian areas. You forget we have seen the newsreels of the clashes the Israeli army launches into Gaza, which reminds me more of a regular cull rather than any sort of effort to try to sort out the problems. We also see the teachings in the Talmud about how to exploit and treat the goy so respectability, honour and trustworthiness don't seem to figure high on people's priorities there when dealing with the Goy.

You chose to come to live in Britain so presumably you have a dual passport or a means of living both in Israel and in the UK, so do your children. Its quite a normal thing to move if you don't like the neighbourhood. It shouldn't be forgotten that there are Jews, non Ashkenazi of course who wouldn't live in Israel and certainly don't condone the current situation there, especially when one realises the ancient link between many of the peoples in the area.

I do have sympathy for the three teenage boy's families who will be mourning them but, again like any country the sacrifice of a few of its citizens to a false flag issue is not a new thing and there is no satisfactory explanation as to what they were doing. I also understand the worry you have for your children and obviously you respect their wish to live in Israel but the rockets are part of the price the ordinary people pay - I would wonder if rockets can fall into Netanyahoo's garden and on his and his cronies' gardens, I somehow doubt it.

When men and women from the Israeli army leave the neighbourhood and move to places like Germany, because of the way the army preys on and kills innocent Palestinians and that behaviour is actually expected by their commanders, you have a situation, thankfully, that does not only doesn't exist in many other countries, and certainly shouldn't in especially sophisticated countries like Israel; you have to look at Israeli policy and the effect it has on ordinary decent Jews, people shouldn't have their consciences' pricked in this manner.

When one considers that this has been going on since 1948 and is no closer to resolution, in fact further away than ever, you have to ask yourself how much longer will the Israeli government carry on failed policy for, before the penny drops and they understand what they are doing, doesn't work and deaths like the three teenagers by whoevers hand is blood on their own hands? Were the ME situation ever settled it would mean that perhaps the strategic position of Israel would not be a matter of weight with the countries whose aid and turning a blind eye policy perpetuate the sadness which is in the hearts of many who live in Israel and outside of it.

People can scream and rant about the misdemeneurs of all sides in Israel, but they are not screaming about the real problem and that is Israeli policy towards its citizens.

Hey ATSers.. im new.. have been keeping up with posts for a couple years now but just made an account since i never thought i knew enough to comment and plus i was an 17 years old kid.. anyways what i'd like to say in this case is that from a neutral point of view i have a few things:

1. the israeli government still hasn't put forth any evidence of hamas involvement which leaves loose ends as to who could've done it.. could be anyone.. so imo any sane authority would gather facts and put up appropriate charges against anyone they believe is the culprit.. they would build a case against them.. the israeli authority instead just took 300 odd palestinians into detention (probably more, even the msm is reporting more in certain places) and barged into homes.. destroyed them.. and in the process some have gotten killed, 5 i heard.. and in defense they have said they tried to minimise civilian loss as much as they could while they tried to locate the teens and basically hamas is responsible for palestinians being mistreated and even killed since they are the ones who kidnapped/killed the three isrealis (while still not providing any evidence of their involvement).. i find this sorta ridiculous and hypocritical.. i mean even at the least a portion of those detained are innocent civilians..
2. i kinda think the israelis are exploiting the tragedy to further their anti unity govt agenda.. which is shameful.. and the whole incident entirely shifts the spotlight away from the jewish settlements in the occupied west bank issue.. especially when the israelis were facing some criticism internationally

ps. pls excuse any errors, i'm new to this

a reply to: samsamm9

You forgot to multiply by ten for Zion tax.

The true number should be 3000.

a reply to: cody599

Cody
tell your children not to go to the army!
tell them to go and study in the university or any kind of high education.
From my experience and other Israelis too, tell them not to recruit.

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: SubTruth

Israel threatened Nixon with launching 13 bombers stuffed with nukes if Nixon refused to send them military and financial aid back in the 60's.

If they were willing to start a nuclear armageddon to get what they wanted, slaughtering 3 innocent teenagers isn't going to cause them any problems whatsoever.

They murdered them, buried them and them found them again and cue the crocodile tears and gnashing of teeth...instant excuse to crush the locals yet again.

Quite surprised they didn't murder an entire school bus load of kids tbh....perhaps the old guard is looking at their clocks and are worried how murdering so many innocents would go down in the hereafter.

WOW! That's really interesting. Proof...or just BS?

originally posted by: akshansh
Hey ATSers.. im new.. have been keeping up with posts for a couple years now but just made an account since i never thought i knew enough to comment and plus i was an 17 years old kid.. anyways what i'd like to say in this case is that from a neutral point of view i have a few things:

1. the israeli government still hasn't put forth any evidence of hamas involvement which leaves loose ends as to who could've done it.. could be anyone.. so imo any sane authority would gather facts and put up appropriate charges against anyone they believe is the culprit.. they would build a case against them.. the israeli authority instead just took 300 odd palestinians into detention (probably more, even the msm is reporting more in certain places) and barged into homes.. destroyed them.. and in the process some have gotten killed, 5 i heard.. and in defense they have said they tried to minimise civilian loss as much as they could while they tried to locate the teens and basically hamas is responsible for palestinians being mistreated and even killed since they are the ones who kidnapped/killed the three isrealis (while still not providing any evidence of their involvement).. i find this sorta ridiculous and hypocritical.. i mean even at the least a portion of those detained are innocent civilians..
2. i kinda think the israelis are exploiting the tragedy to further their anti unity govt agenda.. which is shameful.. and the whole incident entirely shifts the spotlight away from the jewish settlements in the occupied west bank issue.. especially when the israelis were facing some criticism internationally

ps. pls excuse any errors, i'm new to this

So...you and your family live in the woods and are surrounded by hungry wolves who would love to make a meal out of you. There are no other animals around, just the wolves. You do your best to avoid their attempted attacks, throwing sticks and stones when they come too close. One morning, you find your child torn apart and half eaten. So...did a wolf kill your child? And if not, considering there are no other animals...who did?

a reply to: g146541

Oh, I'm sorry. The situation in the ME isn't what one could call crystal clear. ...and no amount of blame mongering will make it so.

Blame who the Hell ever you wish to. The Jews. The Muslims. Honestly, I really don't give a good god damn. Kids on both sides are dying. Being killed for what, pray?

All I hear from most folks around here is: Oh, blame the Israelis. Or the equally stupid counter... Oh, blame the Muslims.

Or blame the U.S.. Or China. Or Europe. Or which ever evil group of the day is most popular at which ever point.

I'm muddying the waters? Seriously?

The folks muddying the waters are the **snip** pulling the damned triggers. ...and the closet psychos who insist upon taking sides.

I'm done taking sides in this stupidity. Both sides share in the blame. There are no angels.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

So...you and your family live in the woods and are surrounded by hungry wolves who would love to make a meal out of you. There are no other animals around, just the wolves. You do your best to avoid their attempted attacks, throwing sticks and stones when they come too close. One morning, you find your child torn apart and half eaten. So...did a wolf kill your child? And if not, considering there are no other animals...who did?

So...basically you're saying that all Palestinians are bloodthirsty animals?

a reply to: Shiloh7

The TORAH is what the jews of today go by(well the modern ones who have any sense) the talmud is liek the hadiths of the muslims. It s opinion alone.

originally posted by: cody599
a reply to: demus

inhumane treatment Palestinians are facing from Israel is helping the extremists on the Palestinian side...

And herein lies the problem, The Palestinians need to make a stand as a nation, against the extremists, as does Israel

Cody

But Israel ARE the extremists and terrorists. They moved on to land that doesn't belong to them, they began raiding homes and murdering the Palestinians, building settlements where Palestinians lived....I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but, who do you think you're fooling here? Israelis punch people in the back of the head all while screaming that they're being attacked. Some dirty business went down in WWII.

Based on Israels past actions, who's to say that they themselves didn't do this just so they could enter a new level of genocide? Until the Palestinians get their land back there will never be peace in the middle east and America will always be appointed by the Israeli government to fight their fights for them, at the very least, give them our latest military tech and billions in tax payer money every year.

But Israelis have the nerve to complain about rocket attacks....well that's what happens when you steal peoples land and murder them!!! They are gonna strike back. No big surprise there. But Israel always plays the "victim". How cute.

a reply to: Fylgje

According to the past and DNA evidence no the modern palestinians are not related to any of the historic tribes that lived in that area. They are all refugees from surrounding countries after that war the arabs sprung on them a while back.

Israel after the battle Israels leaders even told them hey could have the lands back but they refused. Why? Because it was a excuse to get rid of its undesirables and send them to aggravate israel at the same time.

Later on Yasser arafatt and the "plo"(ran by egyptians and others at the time) had a brilliant idea. claim heritage to reclaim lands back from the jews/hebrews. WHy? Because yasser disagreed with the egyptian government refusing to reclaim the gaza strip when it was offerred.

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: opethPA
Just saw this

PzFeed Top News
@PzFeed
BREAKING NEWS: Israel bombing Gaza with armed boats, F-16's and Apache helicopters following deadly discovery of three boys.

And the part that was left out (as usual) is that Gaza was launching rockets into Israel first and the Israelis responded by hitting the launch sites as they always do, business as usual, and not because of the murdered boys... But the truth isn't as sensational, so it gets bent a little bit.

I know MANY people who travel to Israel, i may go there soon myself.

Please tell us, how is the Crime Rate there, and why does everyone automatically believe this was not some kind of OTHER violence subjected to these 3 ?

The way I see it, Israeli on Israeli violence is as bad as anywhere on the earth, but of course this could not be something other than HAMAS.

Not alot of free-thinkers or questioners there huh, well I am coming soon !!

I haven't looked up any statistics, but from my observations over the 4 years I've lived here, I don't think there is nearly as much Israeli on Israeli crime and your supposition that it is as high as anywhere else is off base. And I generally feel safer In Israel than many places in the US (Except maybe when rockets are incoming and I'm away from the safe room in my apartment)... I'll take my dog out for a walk on the beach or sidewalk at midnight and feel perfectly safe (even if he wasn't a Rottweiler that everyone here seems to be deathly afraid of - see avatar to left), and will see other people out and about walking too. Now I'm sure there are areas where you wouldn't want to be out alone at that time, but it is the exception, not the rule. Another reason I feel safer is that there are armed security guards at every Mall entrance, grocery store, banks, etc as well as armed soldiers going about their business as well (Shopping, eating, waiting for the bus) - if someone gets out of line they are dealt with quickly, they don't mess around here... When I've gone back to the US to visit and watched the local news it seems to just be the death/murder/kill/crime report to me. Some guy shoots his wife and kids, then shoots himself - drive by shootings, road rage incidents, assaults, rapes, etc. I just haven't seen that level of crime here. The only violent crime I really hear about seems to be related to organized crime groups messing with each other. Those were car bombs and drive by shootings, but in the last couple years I think there were only about 5-6 of those.

I think part of the reason for less Israeli on Israeli crime is that Israeli's are a tight knit group. A very large percentage have served in the military so most will have that in common. In addition, since most of their neighbors would love to see Israel wiped out, they have bigger things to worry about and why should they do the job for them... Think back to how united the US was after 9/11. When you're in that situation (under constant threat of attack) it pulls you closer together and the petty differences don't seem to matter as much. Now Israelis do love to argue with each other - their "normal" conversations sound like arguments to my ear. I've seen people here get out of their cars and and stand nose to nose yelling at each other because one guy didn't like the other guys driving (Many are horrible drivers BTW, that is probably the most dangerous thing about living in Israel) - but it doesn't come to blows, the light turns green and they go on their way.

I don't think this was just some random violence because these were just kids, not likely involved in organized crime, it happened in the West Bank, and a gun was involved. And unlike the US, private gun ownership is very low here. While I wouldn't say for sure that Hamas is directly responsible (As in planned by their leadership), it could have been Hamas members acting on their own or even just someone sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Either way the Hamas leadership praised the kidnapping. And I'm sure they aren't shedding any tears over their deaths either.

Recently there was an Arab teenager found dead in East Jerusalem which the Israeli Prime Minister quickly denounced, in addition, a family member of one of the kidnapped Israeli teens also condemned the killing. THAT is the difference between Hamas and Israel. An Israeli kid assaulted an Arab taxi driver the other day, and the police arrested him and are pressing charges. There have also been several reports lately of Arabs being harassed by rioters in Israel and the police fighting them off and protecting the Arabs. Think that would happen in the West Bank if the PA security forces were around?

a reply to: seagull

I couldn't agree more.

As such I must take my share of blame for perpetuating this conflict by serving in uniform. Was I an angel ? Not for lack of trying but no certainly wasn't, sometimes rubber bullets and/or tear gas are necessary to save lives. Unfortunately sometime live fire is the only way to survive.

Am I proud of what I achieved ? In a few cases yes, very much so because I know for sure that lives on both sides were saved through my personal decisions and actions. In many more no I am most certainly not, I don't believe in that BS I was following orders we are accountable for our actions REGARDLESS and I must live with that.

Was any of it avoidable ? The idealist in me says yes, all that had to happen was for them to choose not to riot and for us not to respond, but just turn away and leave, the realist says if I turned my back I would be shot.

Is there an end to this conflict ? There can be....................The very first step is for the Palestinians to accept the concept of peace. Not as easy as it sounds, this generation has known nothing but conflict and mistrust, but if not provoked Israel would not respond, there would be nothing to respond to.

I doubt anybody would disagree that every country has the right to defend it's innocents against attack and to respond if so provoked. Admittedly it does take on the David and Goliath perspective in the ME but basic premise is the same.

We have the reached the point in this thread that inevitably comes when discussing this issue where we simply have agree to disagree, or we all end up going around in circles.

As such this will be my last post here.

My thanks to Gortex for authoring this thread.
And my thanks to you, ATS'ers, for an interesting and on the whole, civil discussion of a very hot subject. For any support I was shown my gratitude, and for any counter argument my thanks for making me think.

As a side note for those that may be interested the rockets have stopped falling and my kids are once again safe for the meantime My heartfelt thanks for all the concern that was shown.

I'd also like to send my sincere condolences to the Palestinian family that suffered the loss of beloved son today, such a waste of life.

Israeli leaders have appealed for calm after the discovery of a kidnapped Palestinian teenager's body sparked clashes in East Jerusalem.

LINKY I'm actually shaking my head at the stupidity of this particular pointless murder.

I feel it appropriate given my Irish roots to leave you all with this song about the futility of war

A very disheartened
Cody

ETA: Video

LET THE ETHNIC CLEANSING BEGIN!

a reply to: stirling

Care to attempt to explain that?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Fylgje
According to the past and DNA evidence no the modern palestinians are not related to any of the historic tribes that lived in that area. They are all refugees from surrounding countries after that war the arabs sprung on them a while back.

You are not sure about what you are talking about ! right !?
This is Israel which is made of citizens of Russia, USA, EU and other countries.
Moreover Israel is just a cancerous tumor which is just spreading blindly. The same as ISIL and those radical terrorists. It is not odd. All of those radical entities (Like Zhionists and ISIL and Evangelists and ....) have the same root.
Those terrorists they all have a same root and they are all allies of each other.
And they want to reach beneath Solomon Temple to find their old magics ! What a logic !! It should be written as one of most important goals of UN !!!
May Jesus help us to get rid of all of these stupid radical mad leaders. Oh God just when do you save us !

a reply to: maes2

Maes. we both know there were jews/hebrews there before 1948. They lived side by side with the muslims there. So do not come up in here saying they are all khazars. Didi i say how many are not blood related or have relatives there? nope. But testing of DNA does show who has ancestrial ties there. id say HALF is a good estimate of the ones in europe who could still trace lineage back.

The moder palestinians though? nope. dismiss it all you want but it was conducted by a neutral party. th e only reason this is a thing is the UN is made up of countries that dislike Israel

The whole affair makes me deeply uneasy. It seems to me that some unscrupulous elements within the Israeli government are exploiting this terrible tragedy for their own nefarious ends - namely to quash any chance of peace with the Palestinians and their unity government.

The ones who were calling loudly that they wouldn't work with the Fatah and Hamas government are now the same ones loudly calling for retribution against Hamas and Palestinians as a whole.

The Israeli's claimed almost from the moment the bodies of the young people were found that Hamas was responsible. What they based this on remains to be seen. Sadly the murder of those Israeli teenagers was appallingly convenient for those who were looking for an excuse to smash the Palestinians and to halt the peace process.

No Palestinian group has claimed responsibility and Hamas has denied any involvement. Who has the most to gain from these events?

The Israeli's couldn't stand the fact that the Palestinians had united and would prefer to keep them weak and divided.

The Palestinians try to make small efforts to become a part of the international community and engage in the peace process but Israel blocks them at every turn. Palestine tries to join UN organisations, Israel condemns them and threatens responses and says it's completely unacceptable. The Palestinians form a unity government the Israeli's condemn them and refuse to work with them (even though the U.S. said they would continue to work with them).

If Netanyahu actually had the moral courage to take a step back for a moment and not wildly start calling for revenge then things may be different. But then I doubt he could get away with doing such a thing. Until that time this cycle of retribution and retaliatory attacks will continue.

a reply to: cody599

As a side note for those that may be interested the rockets have stopped falling and my kids are once again safe for the meantime My heartfelt thanks for all the concern that was shown.

A side note? I'm glad for you, my friend. I truly am.

a reply to: yuppa
I wish world was as beautiful as you are describing !