After Iraq gains, Qaeda offshoot claims Islamic "caliphate"

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Nah, other Islamic scholars will question whether he had the right - or his shura - to make this claim. I would suspect that as he doesn't have control of the regalia (relics) that are in Istanbul, nor Makkah or Medina I 'd say his claim to be the Caliph is a tad lame.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

He would have been called out and able to be shown as false had he declared he was the Mahdi (aj).

He did the right thing by having a council and being found, according to consensus of everyone there, the caliph of the Islamic State. He named himself aptly. That is how Abu Bakr (and every other caliph) got his caliphate....he is going for the same... a recognized caliphate where not everyone was either present or in agreement at the time. (Which by the way sunni's do teach as being a valid caliphate anyway)

There is little denying, without denying your entire belief, that he is caliph.(of the sunni's) And... in that, you will be hard pressed to find a sunni to fight him now.

What we saw in Iraq, we may start seeing everywhere... entire countries simply folding, and fighters leaving their weapons and walking away from the fight.

If that happens, and it is up to the shia to fight them... we will loose. The shia are outnumbered.

a reply to: Hanslune

Abu Bakr had a caliphate where the vote was not attended by everyone, nor agreed to by everyone. Sunni's teach it was still a valid caliphate.

Only the shia disagree with that... that is what caused the sunni shia split. This right here, is what caused the first split in Islam, and sunni for 1400 years have been teaching it was valid.

This is why I said, he named himself aptly... he knows what he is doing...

And everyone thought Obama was stupide, it would seem that he has just completed one of his fathers dreams.

Like the mass desertion's of the Iraq army and the surprise move (at least to all the media shills) of ISIS this must be a surprise also... NOT

The misdirection by all the scandals perpetrated by both the so-called "left and right " media shill's that allowed this to happen with NO resistance should be the real surprise...or NOT !

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

He did something here, that was more powerful than you realize, in announcing himself as caliph of the Islamic Nation.

To go against the caliph is to go against Islam. To fight against him is to fight against Islam.

He is forcing everyone to choose. He is forcing people to openly declare themselves against the calipha....

Denouncing him as the leader of ISIS isn't the same as denouncing the calipha.

Stop fear mongering !!

Who gave him authority to claime a caliph ?

Are you forgetting the rules for establishing a caliph?

One major one is that it has to be "Proven" he has direct lineage to prophet Muhammad!

It has yet to be proven.

Some scholars say nay!


And all the major sunni/Muslim country's don't support this caliph

To name a two big ones marroco ,Saudi Arabia.....

You really think these country's are going to summit under this scumbag?

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Who gave him authority? Everyone who attended that council. Just ask the first caliph of Islam. Simply read history to know the truth of that.

Now the only question left will be... who will say he is sinning against Islam and be willing to fight them?


It's not fear mongering... its our religion. And this man knows it much better than you.

Said to be the rules to become Caliph

Caliph

3- By means of force and prevailing over others. When a man becomes caliph by prevailing over the people by the sword, and he establishes his authority and takes full control, then it becomes obligatory to obey him and he becomes the leader of the Muslims. Examples of that include some of the Umayyad and ‘Abbasid caliphs, and those who came after them. This method is contrary to sharee’ah, because it is seized by force. But because great interests are served by having a ruler who rules the ummah, and because a great deal of mischief may result from chaos and loss of security in the land, the one who seizes authority by means of the sword should be obeyed if he seizes power by force but he rules in accordance with the laws of Allaah. Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: If a man rebels and seizes power, the people must obey him, even if he seizes power by force and without their consent, because he has seized power.

The reason for that is that if his rule is contested, it will lead to a great deal of evil, and this is what happened during the Umayyad period when some of them seized power by means of force and gained the title of caliph, and people obeyed them in obedience to the command of Allaah. End quote. Sharh al-‘Aqeedah al-Safaareeniyyah (p. 688).

For more information on this topic, and to find out how the state should operate and how its affairs should be run, please see Ahkaam al-Sultaaniyyah by Abu’l-Hasan al-Maawardi al-Shaafa’i and Ahkaam al-Sultaaniyyah by Abu Ya’la al-Farra’ al-Hanbali, and al-Tarteeb al-Idaariyyah by al-Kattaani. And Allaah knows best.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

He has a doctorate in Islamic studies so you bet he knows what he is doing more concerning is his understanding of battlefield tactics and strategy,in any event this is the most significant event in international jihadism since 9-11 and all that is coming from the US and Europe is the sound of crickets.In an interesting development today Netanyahu has stated Israel supports a separate Kurdish state...this may bring Turkey into the mix.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000

a reply to: Expat888



Israel being quiet isn't a good thing, in my view. People with true strength are least threatening when they are loud and sassy. That's how they get out the frustration because they know they have power to do far far more. When powerful people go quiet? They're either unconcerned...or looked well past the tantrum stage to actually doing something about it.

Note the fact they are STILL bombing Assad, someone who has a hope and a prayer of winning against this group, someone who is actively trying to stop this group. You would think Israel would at least stop the fighting against Assad for a few until this group which will ultimately knock on Israel's door, and none too nicely either, is taken out of the running.

There is a definite plan... and its not good at all.

I agree with this 100%. There is absolutely no way they would be quiet without in some way shape or form guiding the outcome. As the Zionist Supremacists would say, Israel is under constant attack by its neighbors so all of their inhumane policy is justified. Why are we not hearing about their fears of ISIS/ IS what ever they have been told to call themselves.

I mean come now they clearly plan on taking back Israel, assuming the map on the following link to be correct. To have Netanyu speak today about how the Kurds should make their own independent state without the slightest bit of unease about ISIS speaks volumes about what they know and apparently it is that things are proceeding as planned.

english.alarabiya.net...

a reply to: OpinionatedB

And... according to sunni Islam in the teachings of many of these groups including salafi, is that he has not committed any sin, even by killing all these people - because he can say they are kafir or were fighting with the christians and it was his duty or some other such thing.

It's a rather untenable thing he just did... none of these scholars that have been teaching all this stuff for these last 30 years can go against him, without calling their own selves out as being false teachers of Islam.

This is a Flat out lie! I am sick of your constant Attacks on salafi and sunni , i have proven this to you on other threads that your Wrong about your fantacy that the majority of sunni /salafi Muslims support these evil misguided group! (The now IS)


Your constant fear mongering , demonizing of sunni Muslims is disgusting! Never once ! Have I attacked YOU shia ! On these boards but you continue
to group us together as if we all fall under or agree with the same belief of the "ISIS" /"IS" .


I am salafi and so are all the top scholars in Saudi Arabia , and I am telling YOU this group is committing acts of SIN ! They are evil !
Extremist !
Why don't you take the time to READ this time
The position of the salafi regarding this group!

mtws.posthaven.com...

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Who gave him authority? Everyone who attended that council. Just ask the first caliph of Islam. Simply read history to know the truth of that.

Now the only question left will be... who will say he is sinning against Islam and be willing to fight them?


It's not fear mongering... its our religion. And this man knows it much better than you.

Who is everyone that attended "that council"?

Who are they? A bunch of reble scum? With khawarij aqeeta?

Exactly ! What notable respected figure in Islam attended this "council"

I didn't hear of any leaders from marroco or Saudi Arabia ..or Iran ..

Nor did I hear of them supporting these misguided group's

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I tell you what. Just wait. Just watch and wait and see how they teach all this is right and in accordance with Islam.

Just watch and see. They will prove it themselves, you don't need to get mad at me over it.

You seriously think that a man who has his doctorate in Islamic studies did not have a clue what he was doing by holding council and being elected caliph by all present?

You just watch and see.

PS. I have lived and breathed Islam my whole life. I didn't convert. And I do know Islam well..

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I read your link and found it refreshing to see someone in authority denounce these thugs,now I am no great shakes in the religion department but I do have tertiary qualifications and experience with marketing and communications,here is where ISIS or IS has it over the moderates many of their productions are quite professional and slick and aimed at muslims in the west,heck you can even get hoodies and t-shirts from them.

At the time of 9-11 there were only 30 Australians affiliIiated with the Taliban,with ISIS there are 150 known to be over there,there's over 500 brits with them as well as Germans etc their recruitment works from 2500 in 2012 there are now 10000 or more in their ranks.I could go on but the point is moderates have to get their multi-media act together declare this guy a Dajjal or apostate and let the West know mainstream Islam does not approve because at the moment they are losing the battle of ideas.

a reply to: khnum

(sigh) I read your words and just groan... So it's becoming a regular UN over there for faces and races. Dandy... So much for any form of profiling being helpful. It was kinda P.C. problematic before but had some real points for being factually accurate in who DID things. If he's pulling the right strings to attract an international cross section? Profiling isn't P.C. anymore. It's factually worthless and we're in real bad trouble, real quick.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I tell you what. Just wait. Just watch and wait and see how they teach all this is right and in accordance with Islam.

Just watch and see. They will prove it themselves, you don't need to get mad at me over it.

You seriously think that a man who has his doctorate in Islamic studies did not have a clue what he was doing by holding council and being elected caliph by all present?

You just watch and see.

PS. I have lived and breathed Islam my whole life. I didn't convert. And I do know Islam well..

His degree means nothing ! Its obviou by his actions of takfiri and khwawrij ideology!

The imam at my local community masjid has a doctrine in "Islamic studies " he's also a haffis ..

He's been wrong many times and rightly called out on it!

How long you have been Muslim means NOTHING to me ! Its the knowledge of Islam that matters .
And thus far your knowledge has been proven weak ! Its evident in your statements !

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I read your link and found it refreshing to see someone in authority denounce these thugs,now I am no great shakes in the religion department but I do have tertiary qualifications and experience with marketing and communications,here is where ISIS or IS has it over the moderates many of their productions are quite professional and slick and aimed at muslims in the west,heck you can even get hoodies and t-shirts from them.

At the time of 9-11 there were only 30 Australians affiliIiated with the Taliban,with ISIS there are 150 known to be over there,there's over 500 brits with them as well as Germans etc their recruitment works from 2500 in 2012 there are now 10000 or more in their ranks.I could go on but the point is moderates have to get their multi-media act together declare this guy a Dajjal or apostate and let the West know mainstream Islam does not approve because at the moment they are losing the battle of ideas.

I fully!! Fully ! Agree with you!

We need media coverage to spread some dawa!
Sadly its hard to get such coverage ...

We also need "Other Muslims" on this board and abroad to realize these groups don't represent the majority of sunni/salafi beliefs.


I was just recelty on Facebook and I came across a pic that said "click like if you support the new caliph " or comment if you don't"
The comments out weigh the "likes " by a large number .

I am optimistic ! That they will be stopped.. Unlike SOME! Muslims in this thread.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It seriously depends on so many factors, ones we cannot rightly gauge at present moment. He will have a good cross section of support across nations, however, its the support he will have or not have locally which will determine a lot.

Right as of now, most tribal leaders are not treating him too seriously... but he has already implemented sharia law in the areas he has over taken, this will add to his claims. But what the people do locally is key.

This wont stop shia from fighting in Iraq, Jihad has already been called against them by Ayatollah Sistani. Assad will fight them regardless of this claim, the concern is more how many foreign fighters may join to support him which would outweigh the shia fighting against him...

he can still be stopped and it will all amount to not. He simply cannot be allowed to take Iraq and Syria.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The Israeli's have known for a long time a terrorist probably isn't going to show up with a nightie and a beard and may be of any race on earth they have developed 2 very good technologies to counter this one is called the Suspect detection system and the other WeCU this technology isn't cheap and you may argue they interfere with civil liberties but they work on physiological responses,polygraph type technologies,subliminal imaging etc to identify potential terrorists,that and good staff training keeps their airports secure so profiling is still relevant although its now becoming technological non visual/non verbal.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

You two realize the distinctions you are talking about mean very little in the larger scheme of these events right?

Its his resources, his skills and his golden touch that should be the primary fear here. Use all that understanding to figure out his next move........and I think this Caliph needs a catchy nickname....somehow calling him Caliph seems wrong and al-baghdadi is both fake is and a reference to that ol alqueda ruse with the faceless man. I think this cat has moved beyond that just by using that name, its so Machiavelien.

Since Obummer is secretly a Muslim, we all seen the ring....does this mean POTUS is subservient to this new Caliph?

A new avenue for impeachment may have just hit the fan.