Evolution is an exercise in creative thinking.

originally posted by: Verum1quaere
what does science say:

“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being.”
--Sir Isaac Newton, Principia, Book 3

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
--Max Planck

“When the answer is simple, God is answering.”
--Einstein

“A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question."
--Dr. Fred Hoyle (scientist who coined the term "Big Bang" who was unafraid to go wherever the facts led him, and who consequently recanted his atheism.)

Head of Human Genome Project, Dr. Francis Collins, converts to Christianity
"I set out to prove that my atheist position was correct."

“Since everything that is in motion must be moved by something, let us suppose there is a thing in motion which was moved by something else in motion, and that by something else, and so on. But this series cannot go on to infinity, so there must be some First Mover.”
--Aristotle, “Physics”

“One cannot be exposed to the law and order of the universe without concluding that there must be design and purpose behind it all... To be forced to believe only one conclusion--that everything in the universe happened by chance--would violate the very objectivity of science itself.”
--Werner von Braun, Letter to CA State Board of Education, 9/14/72

"The laws of nature produce no events, they state the pattern to which every event have only and can be induced to happen, must conform. Just as the rules of Arithmetic state the pattern to which all transactions of money, must conform, if only you can get a hold of any money. Thus in one sense the laws of nature cover the whole field of space and time. In another what they leave out is precisely the whole real universe. The incessant "
"For every law says in the last resort: 'If you have A, then B."
But first catch your A.
The laws will not do it for you."
--C.S.Lewis
12 min

youtube: The Case For A Creator With Lee Strobel
www.youtube.com...

Funny how creationists always quote people who died before science had disproven the bible..... Also Albert enstien was furious over the way people lied about his quotes to back their religion.....I don't know if the quote you used is the fake one, but Al thought Christianity was a joke.

a reply to: Verum1quaere

Ah the age old tradition of Creationists quote mining scientists like the opinions of scientists in the past has any relevance on the science of today, and this is provided that the quotes weren't taken out of context too. I hope you know that quotes from famous people (even scientists or smart people) isn't evidence of anything. It just highlights these people's opinions. Even smart people can be wrong. And again, I must highlight that all these quotes happened years ago. Science has moved on since they spoke these opinions. EVIDENCE. That is all that matters in a discussion about evolution being true or not. If you want to demonstrate that evolution isn't true, give us evidence that it isn't true.

ETA: Oh wait those quotes aren't even about evolution but the existence of god. That's off topic...

Well, as someone said earlier, I do love to discuss these topics. I've learned so much more about the science around evolution from heated debates with Young Earth creationists, or radical skeptics (who actually disbelieve all non-empirical proof, god those are some tough nuts..)

Also, and this is some kind of compromise I almost always get to in my discussions with religious people who also like to remind me how Isaac Newton, Einstein and so on were in fact Christians (!):

So? Science and spirituality are not mutually exclusive. Science deals with the measurable, physical, rational, provable and peer reviewed facts. Spirituality deals with well..just that, the personal experience and path of faith.

Whatever that means.

What I do think that it's (generally) exclusive is science and religion: this opinion emanates from a few talks with both jewish and christian colleagues, who state that one can believe that christ is our lord and saviour, but don't actually follow the bible to the letter (Spiritual people, or light-christians if you will) but in their view these light-christians really are hypochrites. To truly follow their religion they should believe and know that every word of the Bible/Torah/Talmud is the truth and directly inspired by God.

So, yeah.

Funny stuff.


And please OP, I think you are a bit behind on your 8th Grade biology. Wouldn't hurt to go out there and read a book or two by people who actually gave something useful to humanity.

Cheers!

a reply to: JoeTheJoe

religious people who also like to remind me how Isaac Newton, Einstein and so on were in fact Christians.

Einstein was a Christian? They must have been Young Earthers. You don't get to join that club if you know how to use an apostrophe.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: JoeTheJoe

religious people who also like to remind me how Isaac Newton, Einstein and so on were in fact Christians.

Einstein was a Christian? They must have been Young Earthers.

I don't think they wereYoung Earthers actually. Just uninformed? Lazy? Had other, bigger, life conerns?

In any case, I don't know why they bring it up, it's useless. So they were, or weren't, whatever. Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

It's all nonsense.

Question for creationists here.

Can adam and eve be proof of evolution? Their kids had incest, incest creates horrible mutations, mutations are a spark of evolution, and humans are horrible enough to be one of those mutations.

I haven't seen pictures of adam and eve, and we can't see their bones, so we have no reason to assume they where the same as us. Right?

a reply to: JoeTheJoe

Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

Oh yes.

Not just Fascists. But moustaches are very dangerous things.

Hitler grew one. It took over his brain and turned him into a tyrant.

Joe Stalin grew one. Guess what?

Saddam Hussein grew one. Are we seeing a pattern here?

Lenin went one step further and grew a goatee.

Everybody knows that people with goatees have sold their souls to the Devil.

Case in point: Richard Branson.

Like my goatee?

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: JoeTheJoe

Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

Oh yes.

Not just Fascists. But moustaches are very dangerous things.

Hitler grew one. It took over his brain and turned him into a tyrant.

Joe Stalin grew one. Guess what?

Saddam Hussein grew one. Are we seeing a pattern here?

Lenin went one step further and grew a goatee.

Everybody knows that people with goatees have sold their souls to the Devil.

Case in point: Richard Branson.

All the best world leaders have facial hair. I can't trust a man with a smooth face. It's a form of deception. America has gone to # since politicians started shaving. Nero, Caligula, Mao, pol pot, mugabe, idi amin dada, brezhnev, Yahya Khan....all clean shaven...i rest my case!

Here's a crazy thought....what if hitler's mustache is the only thing that kept him from being worse? it brought some control into his life....He may have been worse with out it.


and so this stays on topic....facial hair is an important part of human evolution!

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: JoeTheJoe

Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

Oh yes.

Not just Fascists. But moustaches are very dangerous things.

Hitler grew one. It took over his brain and turned him into a tyrant.

Joe Stalin grew one. Guess what?

Saddam Hussein grew one. Are we seeing a pattern here?

Lenin went one step further and grew a goatee.

Everybody knows that people with goatees have sold their souls to the Devil.

Case in point: Richard Branson.

All the best world leaders have facial hair. I can't trust a man with a smooth face. It's a form of deception. America has gone to # since politicians started shaving. Nero, Caligula, Mao, pol pot, mugabe, idi amin dada, brezhnev, Yahya Khan....all clean shaven...i rest my case!

Here's a crazy thought....what if hitler's mustache is the only thing that kept him from being worse? it brought some control into his life....He may have been worse with out it.


and so this stays on topic....facial hair is an important part of human evolution!

It's ridiculous to insinuate hitlers mustache was innocent or maybe even a hero! That's the kinda of pro-satche propaganda that's ruining this country! We have undenighably evidence that the mustache was the precursor to everything from slavery to murder!


You sir discust me... Someone report this guy!

God I hope no one actually reports you :p

originally posted by: mahatche
Question for creationists here.

Can adam and eve be proof of evolution? Their kids had incest, incest creates horrible mutations, mutations are a spark of evolution, and humans are horrible enough to be one of those mutations.

I haven't seen pictures of adam and eve, and we can't see their bones, so we have no reason to assume they where the same as us. Right?

Oh no they have faith! Lmao hehe

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: JoeTheJoe

Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

Oh yes.

Not just Fascists. But moustaches are very dangerous things.

Hitler grew one. It took over his brain and turned him into a tyrant.

Joe Stalin grew one. Guess what?

Saddam Hussein grew one. Are we seeing a pattern here?

Lenin went one step further and grew a goatee.

Everybody knows that people with goatees have sold their souls to the Devil.

Case in point: Richard Branson.

All the best world leaders have facial hair. I can't trust a man with a smooth face. It's a form of deception. America has gone to # since politicians started shaving. Nero, Caligula, Mao, pol pot, mugabe, idi amin dada, brezhnev, Yahya Khan....all clean shaven...i rest my case!

Here's a crazy thought....what if hitler's mustache is the only thing that kept him from being worse? it brought some control into his life....He may have been worse with out it.


and so this stays on topic....facial hair is an important part of human evolution!

You may have a good point there...many of the greatest men have also worn beards. I suspect a great deal of masculine virtue is produced deep within those follicles, fueling a legendary passion for moving heaven and earth to secure heaven incarnate on earth. Yes, those bristly face-bears have long established the grand dream we envision for ourselves. It is my hope that one day, all humans may boast bundles of fur both on and around their mouths, and wisdom will be a genetic trait passed from bearded noble to bearded noble. And they will say to each other, "By my beard, I have deduced that the buoyant force on my body's the weight of the water displaced!" And then they will head off to preschool for their grad school degree.

Or something like that.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: JoeTheJoe

Hitler had a (silly) moustache, so does my uncle. Does that equate them on some level, both equally probable to go be a fascist leader?

Oh yes.

Not just Fascists. But moustaches are very dangerous things.

Hitler grew one. It took over his brain and turned him into a tyrant.

Joe Stalin grew one. Guess what?

Saddam Hussein grew one. Are we seeing a pattern here?

Lenin went one step further and grew a goatee.

Everybody knows that people with goatees have sold their souls to the Devil.

Case in point: Richard Branson.

All the best world leaders have facial hair. I can't trust a man with a smooth face. It's a form of deception. America has gone to # since politicians started shaving. Nero, Caligula, Mao, pol pot, mugabe, idi amin dada, brezhnev, Yahya Khan....all clean shaven...i rest my case!

Here's a crazy thought....what if hitler's mustache is the only thing that kept him from being worse? it brought some control into his life....He may have been worse with out it.


and so this stays on topic....facial hair is an important part of human evolution!

You may have a good point there...many of the greatest men have also worn beards. I suspect a great deal of masculine virtue is produced deep within those follicles, fueling a legendary passion for moving heaven and earth to secure heaven incarnate on earth. Yes, those bristly face-bears have long established the grand dream we envision for ourselves. It is my hope that one day, all humans may boast bundles of fur both on and around their mouths, and wisdom will be a genetic trait passed from bearded noble to bearded noble. And they will say to each other, "By my beard, I have deduced that the buoyant force on my body's the weight of the water displaced!" And then they will head off to preschool for their grad school degree.

Or something like that.

Men were great inspite of their beards!

a reply to: reploid

there's no such thing as an 'evolutionist'. The correct term is 'scientist.'

I'm assuming you've made up the term in an attempt to put the fiction of a divine creation on an equal footing with the observed process of evolution.

BUZZT!

Megafail on your part.

a reply to: ArtemisE

How exactly is cloning based on evolution? Cloning and gene therapy are study of our DNA(which contains genes), and now you make the assumption that they are based on evolution? Yet another leap in logic. Might as well just say Quantum Physics is the reason for our advancements in medicine.

Science or the study of how things work is why we live longer, not evolution. Evolution is just one branch of science that is based a lot on conjecture.

I think that creationists should reference the index to creationist claims before posting new topics in this section. This weak reasoning has been posted numerous times and practically every new thread in here uses the same outdated arguments. It's funny how every creationist thinks they have actually figured out and debunked a scientific theory as if they know more than scientists do about the subject, just because they read something on a religious website.

Suppose we were to go with my theory that the universe is a simulation and that our DNA is a computer program or an array, then the similarities in out DNA can be explained by the fact that we all have a "pointer" to the master program, and that any changes to the master program will result in a change in our DNA.

It should be noted that the difference between chimps and humans' DNA is 70-85%, not 99%.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because I don't remember how conclusive the evidence was about the claim, I'm not going to state it as fact, but a book called "the Mating Mind" posits that our intelligence evolved because it was sexually selected for.

there had to be a point where humans somehow started to develop in a different way from other animals and evolution has some answers to that but than why and how exactly did that happen?

If anything but the fact that we have become the dominant species on the planet, is meant by that question, there's no reason to assume we are different from any other animal. The fact that we're more intelligent and managed to kill everything that got in our way to achieve dominance over most every other life form doesn't make us special. In many ways, it even makes us worse.

1. To all the members who jumped in to say "theres no such thing as an evolutionist"........
This guy talking about how understanding evolution caused an epiphany.... calls himself a "convinced evolutionist" in his thread The evolution ephiphany. So quit fussing childishly over the word "evolutionist". You are not worth my time.

2. To all the people bringing up religion and creationism....
I am not arguing from the POV of religion and creationism. I just posted a couple of points to show that the "explanations" provided by evolutions are rooted in their own imagination and conjecture. Bringing up religion/creationism neither addresses the OPs points nor does it help your case. You, too, are not worth my time.

3. To the few posters who actually bothered to read and respond to the points made in the OP, I greatly appreciate that and you are definitely folks worth spending time with in a discussion and I will respond to your posts (cant promise I'll post what you want to read) But anyway.


#38

originally posted by: reploid
1. To all the members who jumped in to say "theres no such thing as an evolutionist"........
This guy talking about how understanding evolution caused an epiphany.... calls himself a "convinced evolutionist" in his thread The evolution ephiphany. So quit fussing childishly over the word "evolutionist". You are not worth my time.

2. To all the people bringing up religion and creationism....
I am not arguing from the POV of religion and creationism. I just posted a couple of points to show that the "explanations" provided by evolutions are rooted in their own imagination and conjecture. Bringing up religion/creationism neither addresses the OPs points nor does it help your case. You, too, are not worth my time.

3. To the few posters who actually bothered to read and respond to the points made in the OP, I greatly appreciate that and you are definitely folks worth spending time with in a discussion and I will respond to your posts (cant promise I'll post what you want to read) But anyway.


#38

Your time can't be worth that much to begin with if you're spending it here.