Children hopping death trains to get to the US for Obama's promised Amnesty

a reply to: Echo3Foxtrot

I actually agree with kruphix to a degree, we are all people and they deserve a chance at a better life.

SO DO WE.

In case someone missed it ?

There isn't enough to go around now for the 'legals' in this country.

It simply can NOT handle anymore.

a reply to: neo96

This is about the only thing I'll get all bleeding heart on, so don't beat me too hard. After some of the stuff I've seen in less fortunate countries while with the Marines, I'll gladly trade places with them. But that's also why I said amnesty won't work and there needs to be control because if the flood gates are left open as they are, we are screwed.

Maybe the best way to start it is by just shutting down the borders completely until we can stablize the country with the population we already have.

a reply to: Echo3Foxtrot

The sad reality is that if the USA was the global leader in all categories that it should be, especially its economy, no one here or anywhere would be bitching about immigration.

If we had a great economy (remember the days when the "want/jobs section" was the thickest in a news paper) no one would complain.

We would make it easy for them to "legally" get into the USA and to find work... Of course most of them would probably only want to be here temporarily, they would return to their home countries after seasonal work and live like the wealthy there on the earnings they had saved while in the USA... Believe it or not, it worked well this way not that long ago.

I worked alongside some of these "migrant workers" back in the day, and they were good people, some I have no problem calling friends...

Times were good, opportunity was everywhere for ANYONE that wanted it, there for the taking. The good old days.

That America is dead and gone... What is happening now is the redistribution of what is left of America to the rest of the world, and the slow destruction of a once great nation.

The vultures are landing to pick the remaining flesh from the bones now...

originally posted by: grandmakdw


Why doesn't the mainstream media care about these children by reporting this?

Do you really think the Obama Administration has no responsibility for this situation as they claim?

Mainstream media has done articles on it.

First Here's a link to the CNN article covering the original bill

Initially, this was to address the issue of adolescents who were brought into this country, without their ability at the time to have any say in the matter and to start immigration reform with a clean slate from that point on.

My personal opinion, Obama made the correct call at the time. Unfortunately, one consequence of that action is the traffickers are able to use it to lure a young and naive base.

Now to address the mainstream media not covering the issue:

June 18th OpED piece from CNN

June 9th Article by Nick Valencia from CNN

June 10th piece by CNN regarding the upcoming summer and immigrations impact

June 19th piece by Halimah Abdullah from CNN on the political rammifications regarding the issue

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
a reply to: kruphix

How are you going to allow millions of people come to this country? You think that is being compassionate? You would be literally making your own people starve by the illegals stealing jobs away. Letting as many people come here by "opening the gates" is such a horrible idea I don't know why you would try to play a guilt card with the other poster by saying that. Unless you personally want to take care of all of the people trying to get in here, that is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.

First of all...I don't have a "my own people"...we are all people. The geographical location of your birth doesn't make one person better than another in my opinion. Immigrants are just as much "my people" as people who are born in this country are.

If people want to come here to attempt a better life, I'm all for it. If they beat "Americans" out for jobs...good for them...isn't that our American spirit...work hard and get ahead?

If it was up to me, we would slash our military budget and use all that wasted money on helping people...instead of killing people.

Then you provide for "your people" and leave the rest of us out of it,comprende?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Sounds like a hyped up BS story made up for propaganda!!

Nothing more!! Im sure they have the odd picture of some kid missing an arm...they all have that pic, its the go to pic for war zones and brutal regimes and whatever else they want to lay out for the public to chew on!!

a reply to: kruphix

The geographical location of your birth doesn't make one person better than another in my opinion. Immigrants are just as much "my people" as people who are born in this country are.

If people want to come here to attempt a better life, I'm all for it. If they beat "Americans" out for jobs...good for them...isn't that our American spirit...work hard and get ahead?

Then why are illegals often treated 'better' than the citizens? Why should an illegal have cheap housing while many of our citizens are on waiting lists and have to wait years? Are they 'better' than the people that were born here or came here through the proper channels?

The illegals are not getting jobs because they are 'better' workers, they are getting the jobs because they work for less money. They have lowered wages for everyone in many fields. I have worked beside illegals for many years and not one of them worked harder than I did. You insult the hard working people of America by placing illegals on some kind of pedestal like they are better than everyone else and above the laws.

a reply to: projectbane

You must have your head in the sand.

This is no fake story.

The borders are flooded with children without parents, most over 14 but a growing percentage of infants and 2 year olds. This is a real story with real consequences.
And real children who are going to be exploited by the rich liberals/progressives as maids, janitors, gardeners, and slave wage earners for dirty hard backbreaking jobs. They are not going to have a decent life, they are going to be exploited by the very people who want them here, for their own financial gain.

a reply to: Destinyone

Wait... is this actually true?

If a child makes it over, their parents are then allowed to come over as well?

If so, I would've figured we'd have seen child-throwing trebuchets by now, because that seems too easy.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Echo3Foxtrot

What is happening now is the redistribution of what is left of America to the rest of the world, and the slow destruction of a once great nation.

The vultures are landing to pick the remaining flesh from the bones now...

This is the first time I have heard someone put into words how It fills now in our once great nation.

originally posted by: parad0x122
a reply to: Destinyone

Wait... is this actually true?

If a child makes it over, their parents are then allowed to come over as well?

If so, I would've figured we'd have seen child-throwing trebuchets by now, because that seems too easy.

Don't be silly. The Cartel Coyotes walk them right up to the border, and hand them over to Border Patrol.

Unfortunately, our current administration won't allow the Border Patrol Agents, hand them right back to the Cartel Coyotes and tell them to take them back home.

Des

a reply to: kruphix

Have you ever tried getting residency in another country? I have. You have to jump through hoops and have serious money to do so. Even after paying and getting your residency you need to watch your p's and q's because you can be deported if you don't abide by the country's rules.

Many years ago I fell in love with Cozumel and wanted to move there, I could not work there unless I was supported by a local family, I also had to pay $1200 a yr for a workers permit. Do you know how hard it is to make that sort of money in Mexico?

A few years ago I started my residency on an island in the West Indies, I didn't have hoops to jump through, I had obstacles to over come, I could only gain employment if there was not a natural citizen to do the work I wanted to do. I also had to pay for all the paperwork that needed to filed as well as the cost of residency on a yearly basis. Besides all this I had to meet government officials and be approved and let me tell you if they didn't like me for any reason I could be denied and I couldn't do anything about it. It is not easy to gain legal residency in any country that I know of.

So tell me, with our economy the way it is, our national debt out of control, children here who are natural citizens going hungry and living in cardboard boxes, shelters and cars why you think it is a good idea to bring more to this country?

I am not a heartless person and I don't like seeing people suffer, but I am a strong believer in you help your own first. And why shouldn't it be that way? After all it's the American people paying the tax here, not the illegals that are swarming across our borders.

originally posted by: parad0x122
a reply to: Destinyone

Wait... is this actually true?

If a child makes it over, their parents are then allowed to come over as well?

If so, I would've figured we'd have seen child-throwing trebuchets by now, because that seems too easy.

Yes it is true. They have older unrelated children carry them over the border.

originally posted by: Destinyone
Of course not...when the little kids...and a hell of a lot of them are much older than 18, they have no documentation to prove how old they are, are in place as anchor kids. Their adult families get to join them. Then they get the free housing....

See, that's how it works.

What? What?! That's not how it works at all! Where are you getting that from?

The drug cartels are lying to people and saying that children will get amnesty, so people are sending their children over the border with the belief that they'll become American citizens and can sponsor their parents.

It's all lies. There's no amnesty. There's not even a dream act yet. The 'dreamers' that are being talked about are children that were in the country before 2008. Six years ago! People are being lied to and are paying hundreds of dollars to send their kids to America with the belief that they'll just be granted citizenship for showing up.

a reply to: links234

It all depends upon one's perspective. Destiny and you are coming from two different perspectives, one is based on what his actually happening and the other based on the legality of what is happening. Both of you are correct actually.

Yes there is no amnesty - now - but Obama and Biden have said over and over that it is coming - people believe that and want to get here "in time" (ignorant of the details of amnesty they trust what Obama says)

The Obama administration has basically stopped deportation - leading people to believe that once they cross they will not be sent back - which is the current reality.

The administration has openly said and loudly said their goal is to reunite these children with their parents. They have said little to nothing publicly about sending the families back. Leading the parents to believe if they can get the kids there that they can follow with little to no repercussions.

With ZERO public talk about putting these kids/families on military transports - informing the countries they came from to prepare for them coming - and sending them to their country of origin. The reality of what is actually happening is pretty much what you are incredulous about someone saying.

One person is expressing the reality - the other the legal side. The Obama administration has no intention of following current law - therefore what is happening becomes the reality regardless of the law.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

Why doesn't the mainstream media care about these children by reporting this?

Some of the mainstream media sources do indeed care abut these children and others like Fox News, are probably the ones most responsible for this current influx of undocumented children.

Some of the more responsible mainstream media sources accurately reported on Obama's initiative to delay proceedings on those who would qualify as "Dreamers" under the Dream Act and in doing so, they repeatedly explained that the number of immigrants who would qualify under the President's initiative was limited to those who could meet the requirements as set forth in the proposed "Dream Act." FYI, You might want to check out those requirements, they're actually quite restrictive.

On the other hand, some media sources like Fox News, Breitbart, etc... have repeatedly reported that the President was offering full amnesty to all immigrant children in the U.S. when nothing could be further from the truth.

Just the other night, I about fell off my couch when I heard Geraldo Rivera state that this problem was the result of "disinformation about the President's initiative" being propagated in Central America by "coyotes" and "human smugglers" in the region. What an absolute joke!

Funny how right wing media conveniently forgets about all the disinformation they themselves propagated 24/7 on this very issue.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Do you really think the Obama Administration has no responsibility for this situation as they claim?

IMO, the Obama administration is NOT responsible for the current influx of immigrant children. You can place that blame squarely on the back of those who make their living propagating lies and disinformation under the guise of "fair & balanced" news.

a reply to: Flatfish

I respectfully disagree with you.

I think it is the actions which become the reality that are responsible for the problem.

Action: Joe Biden said some of these children will get amnesty just a week or so ago.

Action: Not one child has been sent back to their country of origin
(which should of course be with the incoming country informed of their arrival).

Action: Many of the incoming are held temporarily and then released with a 'promise" to return. later
( if someone commits one illegal act, one should expect them to commit another by not returning for
adjudication)

Action: Obama has only released illegal immigrants and there is no concrete public evidence that even one person has
been sent back to their country of origin
(even the worst known rapists, thieves, gang members, violent criminals are not sent back to their country of
origin).

These very public actions have led to a reality regardless of what the media says or what the law is.

The media is simply passing on what the administration does, not the legality.

Since the Obama administration openly thumbs its nose regularly at the law of the land,
the law becomes in reality a moot point.

Regardless of what anyone says, the immigrants are looking at the reality, what the current administration does.

It is what they do or rather don't do that becomes the true reality for the illegal immigrants.

Who see a completely open border for children with a promise of reunification with parents and with no discussion of sending them back to their country of origin.

That is the reality.

a reply to: Flatfish

If rapists, violent criminals, gang members etc are not sent back to their country of origin

by the Obama administration

the reality is parents can justly expect that children and parents who are not criminals will be deported.


This reality is frequently in the news - extreme criminals who are illegal immigrants are released from prison and NOT deported by the Obama administration.

What does this tell people in south america? What does this tell coyotes and what kind of promises can these coyotes make that become reality?

originally posted by: grandmakdw

I respectfully disagree with you.

I think it is the actions which become the reality that are responsible for the problem.

Action: Joe Biden said some of these children will get amnesty just a week or so ago.

The laws that would grant the immigrant children, (that Joe Biden is talking about) the right to stay in the U.S. were on the books long before Obama ever even considered running for POTUS, much less actually taking office. The laws that deal with unaccompanied minor immigrant children have been in place for some time and the President's initiative with respect to "Dreamers" hasn't altered them one bit.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Action: Not one child has been sent back to their country of origin
(which should of course be with the incoming country informed of their arrival).

Not yet, you act like these are instantaneous decisions. It's not called "due process" for no reason. The term "process" literally means a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end and common sense would dictate that time would be needed to exercise that series of actions or steps.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Action: Many of the incoming are held temporarily and then released with a 'promise" to return. later
( if someone commits one illegal act, one should expect them to commit another by not returning for
adjudication)

Right or wrong, this practice is common when dealing with undocumented immigrants and it too, was in place long before Obama ran for office.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Action: Obama has only released illegal immigrants and there is no concrete public evidence that even one person has been sent back to their country of origin (even the worst known rapists, thieves, gang members, violent criminals are not sent back to their country of origin).

I don't know where you get your information, but for the record; Obama has deported more immigrants than any President in U.S. history. Here are just a few articles on the subject;

www.thenation.com...#
www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.newrepublic.com...

originally posted by: grandmakdw
These very public actions have led to a reality regardless of what the media says or what the law is.

The media is simply passing on what the administration does, not the legality.

Since the Obama administration openly thumbs its nose regularly at the law of the land,
the law becomes in reality a moot point.

Regardless of what anyone says, the immigrants are looking at the reality, what the current administration does.

It is what they do or rather don't do that becomes the true reality for the illegal immigrants.

Who see a completely open border for children with a promise of reunification with parents and with no discussion of sending them back to their country of origin.

That is the reality.

Some media sources do indeed report on the "reality" of the situation while others seem content to spew disinformation at ever opportunity while claiming to be "fair & balanced." If you really want to get a grip on reality, I'd suggest you start by utilizing news sources other than Fox and/or Breitbart because what you're calling reality, I'm seeing as pure delusion.

a reply to: Flatfish

I haven't watched Fox in over a year. So you can rule that one one. I only went to Breitbart because of a link to this headline. This mudslinging on your part is unseemly at best and definitely rude and uncalled for.

Joe Biden was referring to these children who are incoming. Check the news reports.

What I have observed in the news is that hardened criminals and gang members have been allowed to stay, and subsequently commit further heinous crimes that could have been prevented by deportation.

What I have observed in the news is that the Obama administration has not told the border patrol to stand down.

I have observed the Obama administration flagrantly disregarding the constitution (through executive orders which make laws or change laws passed by congress, which is forbidden in the constitution; spy on all Americans emails and phone calls with warrant or suspicion; destroy evidence in ongoing congressional investigations).

Why would I believe that the Obama administration would not do what it wants rather than follow the law on this issue, why would the rest of the world believe Obama would follow US law in anything?

Even Mexico is thumbing it's nose at the US by detaining a person who made a wrong turn into Mexico (believe it or not, that actually happened to me once, I was in a small border town where I worked and was unfamiliar with the part of town I went to shop in - I was in between barricades before I realized I couldn't turn right at the street I wanted - fortunately there were no Mexican police at that border and I turned around and explained the situation to the US border guards)

Why is Mexico and the rest of the world thumbing its nose at Obama, because they know he doesn't really care about anything but his own agenda and this poor marine is off his radar. Also, the world see's Obama as weak and quite frankly more interested in golf and basketball and parties than being a real president. (this is mudslinging at Obama my dear, not you, so don't take it personally please)

I don't think we will agree on the "facts" because what the coyotes and the immigrants think are the facts
are in the actions of the administration's "catch and release" program; constant and consistent promotion of amnesty etc.

Those become the facts for the people who are coming.

So we have a fundamental disagreement, no need to try and mud sling each other over a fundamental disagreement.