“We need automatic guns so to defend against the military. ” - What???

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: sputniksteve

You do understand the difference between a gun and a tank, right?

Because alot of people here assume that the second amendment means every households should not only have guns, but also tanks, and bazookas, and jet fighters, and bomb.

And this is the topic at hand.

Clearly you not only don't have a single clue, but are just regurgitating what you have read from MDA or heard from Bloomberg.
Tanks are vehicles.
Jets are aircraft.
US citizens are allowed to own them.

Bombs are ordinance, not Arms.

Bazookas are allowed as well. Just as M203.

You really should learn the laws of the country you are not only bashing, but what the citizens are allowed to own before you insult them.

a reply to: starheart

Ever fired a "fully automatic" gun??

Seeing that a fully grown man at 185lbs with both Military and LE training and experience, I find it difficult to control a machine gun even chambered in 9mm.

Sooooooo, the use of one of these in a crime would result in wasted ammo, and less rounds on targets.

Oh yeah, when was the last crime committed by one of the lawful machine guns??

originally posted by: starheart
a reply to: Sunwolf

Nitpicker... Just saying.

Get back into search and study shotguns again.Each shotshell(or bullet as you call it) sends out 9 to 200 pellets depending on the choice of shot size.So your analogy is not correct.

They must have made a typo in my 2010 Wikipedia. In the 2010 Wikipedia, the Remington 870 was a rifle, not a shotgun.
You know what I mean about the analogy.

Whatever happened to the MK47 and the automated gun?

A member corrected me that it wasn't MK-47, but AK-47 (my dad, who was a captain in the cadet school, got mixed-up the A with the M); as for the automatic gun, the AK-47 is a selective mode, meaning you can set it to a semi-automatic action, or an automatic action. Unless 2010 Wikipedia is wrong on that part too... *sarcastic*

Well, there we have it.

The US should change its laws based on your knowledge gleaned from Wikipedia.

What a wonderful thing the internet has brought us.
People with no real world experience, pushing other countries to change their lives because what someone read on a website that has anonymous people to post to as fact.

I wonder why all these foreigners are so interested in changing the U.S. Constitution?Why is it any of their business?I think there may be a conspiracy afoot!

a reply to: Sunwolf

The answer to that question, Sunwolf, is a very long one, but starts with something called "the long march through the institutions" or the long march. Read up on the Frankfurt school, and people like Leon Trotsky and Antonio Gramsci. The whole premise is basically this: a bunch of far left wingers in the early 1920s were so upset that the world didn't have a marxist revolution like Russia did in 1917, that they, now with the help of communist russia, planned to infiltrate as many western democracies as possible. The plan, to put simply, was to create culturally marxist countries despite them nominally being democratic, or socialist, or whatever, through long game subversion. There are 4 main avenues of this infiltration and subversion: Banking, Academia, Media, Politics. The goal of this infiltration is to get people, over the course of two generations, to turn their back on the formula that made their country successful. Foreigners, European especially, attacking the US's way of living have been more thoroughly indoctrinated by this method, due to the longer duration that their societies have been subverted.

This ought to be for another thread entirely, but, that's the very tip of the start of what I think is in play here. Whether or not the plan is still being actively managed is moot. The plan becomes somewhat self powered after a certain point, and what we're seeing today is, I think, very much the result of this plan.

Gun control is absolutely one of the goals of the long march.

could be as simple as "Misery loves company." you should see he UK based survivalist forums. you know wha tthey talk about a lot? losing thier knife rights. You see in europe they don't have real gun rights any more. and the grabbers are advancing to restrict combat knives and pocket knives. It's pretty pathetic but the survivalists there are reduced to "you can have my knife when you pry it from my cold dead hands" over there.

and in america the progressives look to European ways rather than american ways as their model to emulate and admire. never mind that when it comes to economic and social models at least the Europeans are back pedaling as fast as they can from socialism.

originally posted by: Sunwolf
I wonder why all these foreigners are so interested in changing the U.S. Constitution?Why is it any of their business?I think there may be a conspiracy afoot!

originally posted by: starheart

No problemo. For your information, it is not leftist ideology, but pacifist.

I present to you... Gandhi:

He brought peacefully the independence of India.

He was a very wise man. In fact, I'm quite fond of one of his more famous quotes...

Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.

originally posted by: Sunwolf
I wonder why all these foreigners are so interested in changing the U.S. Constitution?Why is it any of their business?I think there may be a conspiracy afoot!

I ask the same thing many times. Why are the British so hell-bent on our 2nd amendment?? They're sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. I mean.....weren't they run off from America during some war or something...haha

a reply to: stormbringer1701




Next it will "fist" rights!

By your logic every war should already be over....

Well because they have "The Bomb".

If any country has "The Bomb" every citizen should just give up now and not try to protect their civil liberties...hahahaha..NOT

Lot's of countries have automatic weapons and "The Bomb" but it seems people are still fighting back for their rights.

I am going to start right here because I don't have the fortitude to sift through pages and pages of yays and nays...But I am going to tell you that if it ever came to the populace's automatic weapons (any and all weapons)
against our military...you better believe things just got more serious than anyone ever expected...And that said ...it should NEVER HAVE COME TO THAT.... You are not ants...you have no queen that will protect you. But you all need to get on the same page before that ever happens. Strength in numbers and you better be smart enough to identify the enemy when it happens...

a reply to: EveStreet

I would hope that it never came to citizen vs. citizen, and I would hope that those enlisted citizens would not kill without contemplation, their fellow true and suggested brothers and sisters on command.

a reply to: Fylgje

It's a deep instinct to wish upon others that which we, ourselves, have suffered.

Funny thing is, there are like 7 million illegal guns in the UK.... No doubt not all are owned by criminals. At least the rob-em, kill-em type, just the gun possessing kind.

originally posted by: swanne
Many ATSers are rubbing their hands at the prospect of putting these said hands unto heavy machine guns, like little children in front of water guns. “We need it”, they tell me. “We really do - it’s so that we can defend against the military." To such people I am here to show that your logic is full of holes.

You guys keep on citing the Second Amendment in the hope to justify this ammunophiliac madness. I saw ATSers quote the Second Amendment to justify having automatic weapons, I saw ATSers quote the Second Amendment to justify having bazooka at their home, I saw ATSers quote the Second Amendment to justify having a tank at their home, and I even saw ATSers quote the Second Amendment to justify having bombs.

When the Second Amendment was drafted almost three centuries ago, guns were at the stage of revolvers and muskets. Limited quantity of bullets, and often slow to re-charge - basically, you had to think twice before shooting someone. Today one automatic gun can turn a peaceful school yard into a horror crime scene. Hundred of children were killed - why? Because someone went crazy with an automatic, most of which fire more than one bullet per seconds. That's more than one can do with a three-hundred years-old musket, I can tell you that.

Similarly, your argument implies that to protect themselves from the shooters, schoolchildren should all carry an equally dangerous automatic weapon than the shooter. To me this is not logic, it is a recipe for disaster.

Additionally: you guys often claim that having military grade equipment at home will protect you from an ever-elusive FEMA invasion. Let me simply point out to you that if the military really wanted to kill you all, they would have done it long ago, using a special modern technology which we call the Bomb. In case you've never seen one in your life:

If you really think that an organized military will be scared by your machine guns, then I’m sorry but you live in a fairy tale. The minute a zone is declared hostile territory, they won't bother gently knocking at every wannabe-Rambo redneck's doors. If they judge the place too hostile, then they'll simply blast the place sky high.

Now you understand why I conclude that in modern, everyday life, automatic guns are only a promise of death at worst, and a promise of chaos at best.

In the end, this "ammunophilia" will have profited but the same, old industries: the Big Corporations which are selling the guns and the bullets.

Modern guns in the hands of the people is part of the checks and balance system envisioned by our founders for the same reason as they had made three branches of government.

Welcome to the 21st century...

What ever the 11B20 soldier has, so shout the average American citizen.

The Battle of the Strip Mall Off I-295 (May 5th, 2017) An antique mall, a Chinese restaurant, a Subway restaurant, a closed comic book store, and a sporting goods store were briefly captured by men of the Jacksonville Freedom SEAL Team Guard. The Gadsden flag was run up the flagpole outside and inside the men smashed up Tiffany lamps and tried out crab Rangoon subs. Their demand was the complete resignation of all US government office-holders and the surrender of the United States to Florida's panhandle. Shortly before nine PM, a salvo of rockets from a US Army M270 MLRS vehicle located 45 kilometers away obliterated the strip mall with such force that the dental records of the men inside were somehow blown off the dentist's office computer.

Read more about the Great Battles of the New American Revolution

originally posted by: Sunwolf
I wonder why all these foreigners are so interested in changing the U.S. Constitution?Why is it any of their business?I think there may be a conspiracy afoot!

I don't want to change your constitution, your own Government is doing a very good job of that.

Jets:www.raptoraviation.com...

Tanks:www.milweb.net...

Fully automatic guns:ultimatefirearmtechnologies.com...
NO explosive rounds,no mounted weapons on aircraft.
I am still amazed at some kid trying to teach ME about guns. I have FORGOTTEN more knowledge.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Jets:www.raptoraviation.com...

Tanks:www.milweb.net...

Fully automatic guns:ultimatefirearmtechnologies.com...
NO explosive rounds,no mounted weapons on aircraft.
I am still amazed at some kid trying to teach ME about guns. I have FORGOTTEN more knowledge.

They know it all and want to have it all their way!

originally posted by: Sunwolf

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Jets:www.raptoraviation.com...

Tanks:www.milweb.net...

Fully automatic guns:ultimatefirearmtechnologies.com...
NO explosive rounds,no mounted weapons on aircraft.
I am still amazed at some kid trying to teach ME about guns. I have FORGOTTEN more knowledge.

Badges?

We don't have no Badges...


We don't need no sticking Badges!

www.youtube.com...




They know it all and want to have it all their way!

a reply to: Sunwolf
Nope I am just ME and fringe at that,not very comparable to any demographic.YOUR "kind" call my type "LONE WOLFS" As to MY way ,well I don't get that very much . I have supplied YOU with FACTS based on what I know.YOU are talking politics a language ,skill and knowledge that has no worth in the real world and less to me.
But by all means continue ,its GREAT to debate helpless progressives (AKA PROGS)who would deny water is wet with skilled acridity and failed logic.