Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

update (still missing) losangeles.cbslocal.com...

for those who thought that it took way to long for the friend to hike out and report him missing...thi article says that he became lost and disoriented.....they were hiking mon tar creek trail...set up camp along sespe creek...


specially trained searchers....trained in recognizing and interpreting footprints…not just in terms of direction, but in terms of how much weight the person is bearing, where they’re bearing their weight could they be injured. I mean, there’s a whole science to this,”


The effort Friday was also being aided by horseback, two helicopters, an unmanned aircraft, four search dogs and harmonicas, which are used to soothe animals.


the friend is devastated



a reply to: VoidHawk

update link losangeles.cbslocal.com...

harmonicas

That was initially because his dog reacted to harmonica sound. Now it's part of the search to soothe animals? No wonder he won't be found, government's finest at work again.

a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

Thanks tons for the screen shot and links.

Fascinating and dreadfully sad.

Looks like a very faithful dog, to me.

The more I look at this the more the idea of trained outdoors man seem bogus. Think what he has had is luck.

a reply to: VoidHawk

Of course you have it nailed down Void.
I'm positive of that.

Despite having learned search-and-rescue techniques and survival tactics, Herdman has yet to emerge from the forest he visited on at least four previous occasions.

“He is definitely not an amateur, he is as prepared as many and more prepared than most,” Arcadia Fire Departmene spokeswoman Beth Stogner said. “They learn how to take care of themselves in extreme situations and certainly this would qualify as an extreme situation.”

Byars stumbled out of the forest dehydrated and disoriented after two days of wandering.

He found help from two fishermen who frequent a nearby creek.

Link

Some will disagree but I say the bar is getting set low for experts when these men acted the way they did.

a reply to: research100

That's a great link you entered Re.

a reply to: BO XIAN

chocolate labs are definitely very loyal. and it's really very sad.

the fact that he hasn't been found has nothing to do with the lack of effort on the part of search and rescue workers. they have employed every technology and method available to them so far. and as for the firefighter and commenting on well "the idea of him being an outdoors-man seems bogus" is unwarranted and a snap-judgement.

there have been people twice as experienced and prepared as this guy, true survivalists and hunters that have gone missing in similar circumstances and have never been found. but, they have, like in this case, discovered their packs or clothes but, no body.

you can be the most experienced person in the world in the outdoors and this can still happen to you. it does not matter. everyone going into national parks for days should always have a geolocater on them, you can push the button on the device and it will send an emergency signal out for rescue and emit a beacon for locating the person with the device. they should also preferably carry a pistol along with their pack.

I am noticing the various news reports are giving different versions of what happened over the weekend.

Like fishermen help Byers out and back to the parking area. It didn't say what day. Seems to state searching one day and lost another. Also the fisherman found supplies Byers left for the other man. That might be the 'found backpack'.

They also call authorities after hearing about the incident on the news. So Byers didn't mention any of these details? Or the news wanted to leave the fishermen out of reporting so Byers looked like he did more him self.

a reply to: roadgravel

After reading all these replies I am still unsure about one part of the story. Maybe somebody who has spent more time looking into this can answer.

His friend said he ran off barefoot wearing just shorts and a t-shirt. How then did they find a missing backpack? I guess I just can't wrap my head around this unless whoever reported that left out certain details.

He was either wearing his backpack or he wasn't. Was his friend lying about that detail? If so, why?

a reply to: CallmeRaskolnikov

I agree with you entirely.

Monday quarterbacking from a Laz-Y-Boy is a cheap shot, imho.

About all the firemen I know around here are experienced in the outdoors.

The locator beacon seems to be a minimum need in this era . . . sigh.

I'm glad David Paulides is aware of the case.

a reply to: Euphem

I don't know.

But it is quite plausible that the "wearing only . . . " referred to clothes, period.

The person describing what CLOTHES were worn may have just not thought of a backpack as being worn in the same way clothes are.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
Also, the firefighter by all accounts is an experienced, outdoors kinda guy. The dog takes off and the firefighter just goes apesh$# crazy and runs after him without shoes? The guy is used to crisis situations. He would have maintained a sense of by the book, put shoes on first, etc...doesn't make logical sense.

THIS!!!!

This to me is the rub!!

Y'see, he may not have been the most experienced hiker in the world. His previous excursions may have been overhyped, sensationalised and exaggerated.

But he's a firefighter.

His job is literally dancing with the devil. He is not only trained to deal with a crisis, but I'd go so far as to say conditioned to keep his cool and maintain control of the situation. As I said previously, if that were my dog going, I'd easily spend 30 seconds throwing some shoes on before chasing after him. It's a dog. I can't catch him regardless.
This man, who's job involved rushing into burning buildings, would undoubtedly (if he was in his right mind) grabbed his shoes, some bare essentials and then headed out to find his dog. More likely, he'd have just waited around for the dog to return.
Let us put ourselves in the place of the friend. We're sitting around a campfire. Suddenly the dog, who's instincts and reactions far eclipse our own, bolts. A half a second later, the man bolts. Was he chasing after the dog at all? Or was he simply joining in the flight? Was he in fact, for some reason, overcome by whatever it was that caused the dog to make tracks?

Read the sequence of events and think...

1. Dog bolts.
2. Man, in shorts and a t-shirt, dashes into the dense underbrush straight after.
3. Friend (presumably) is straight up within lets say a maximum of five minutes.
4. Shouts, heads into the direction they ran. Finds nothing. Hears nothing.
5. Friend searches, and in so doing becomes lost himself.
SKIP AHEAD
6. Searchers find barefoot tracks and the guy's backpack (which he didn't take with him).
7. Dog returns briefly, before bolting again (as a previous poster said, and I can attest to, once a dog is REALLY panicked, the smallest thing can startle him into bolting).
8. FLIR, ground and aerial searchers find nothing else. No blood, fabric, hair, signs of foraging, signs of a struggle. Nothing.
9. Government moves to ban drone flying over national forests. At a time when amateurs drone flying may be of benefit.

Strange series of events? AFAIC, yep! And let us not forget the several cases in which the missing in Paulides' books refer to either being chased or encountering strange 'People' who have helped, watched or hunted the people who have been missing.

originally posted by: CallmeRaskolnikov
everyone going into national parks for days should always have a geolocater on them, you can push the button on the device and it will send an emergency signal out for rescue and emit a beacon for locating the person with the device. they should also preferably carry a pistol along with their pack.

You've read the books, Raskol. I can recall at least two cases where a transponder was known to be with the person, but never activated. I can't count how many cases involved people who were armed.
If whatever it is wants you, it'll get you.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
I have read the first Paulides book. It scared me. Really bad. I still don't know why.

I can tell you why, Missmissie, and it's got nothing to do with the deaths, or the disappearances.
The reason why it scared you, is because of the reason why it scared me. The clear, indisputable sense of intelligence behind the disappearances. That, and the superhuman (and by that I don't mean faster than a speeding bullet. I mean significantly faster/stronger than us) abilities of the culprit. Without a doubt there is a thinking, sentient mind behind what is happening. A mind that is not like ours, and is taking our children, our siblings and our parents away from us.

And that is truly terrifying.

a reply to: Euphem

A point I made in my first post, Euphem. And one which still hasn't been answered! His tracks are found, maybe with his backpack, maybe not, but the backpack was found. Not picked from camp where it should have been, but found.


Double post I know, but guys just one thing I want us all to remember here please...

I know we are all enjoying this little, newest mystery. It's what we all came to ATS to do, deny ignorance, root out truth.

But let us not forget, this is a man's life.

There are a woman and a child out there that have lost a husband and a father, and there is a man out there who has undergone who knows what, and may be hurt, afraid, or worse. We may not know these people, but they are fellow human beings, and we owe it to them, and to Herdman, to treat this with the respect it deserves.

a reply to: JackofBlades

INDEED.

I think it's plausible that the man taking after his dog ASSUMED he'd be able to find where he went and call him back within 15-30 feet . . . maybe on a trail or over rocks or whatever not that big a problem to bare feet.

And THEN . . . something VERY ELSE happened.

a reply to: Euphem

He was either wearing his backpack or he wasn't.

I found an article that stated Byers left supplies for him. I am thinking that might be the backpack that was mentioned.

Sorry folks, but something doesn't add up. Both men go to search and then they get separated. The story is not reality or these two men should never have been out there. Funny the least experienced man make it out.

originally posted by: JackofBlades

There are a woman and a child out there that have lost a husband and a father, and there is a man out there who has undergone who knows what, and may be hurt, afraid, or worse. We may not know these people, but they are fellow human beings, and we owe it to them, and to Herdman, to treat this with the respect it deserves.

Well said but the threads going well, and I dont think anyone here has any bad intentions. We all wanna help and who knows, maybe we'll find something thats been missed.

The back pack issue needs sorting out, did he have it when he left? or was it at their camp?

The missing guy may be laying hurt somewhere but the dog isn't, so why cant IR devices locate the dog? Might that indicate that both man and dog are underground?

a reply to: JackofBlades

I agree, and I do feel bad for the family. I think the only way for me to help the families from 2000 miles away is to try and put this puzzle together. Maybe that would help find him somehow, who knows.

I just really wanted clarification on that one detail, because if that was indeed his backpack, and the friend didn't mention he was wearing it, well you would be doing the family wrong not to ask questions.

So if somebody has posted solid evidence that this was not his backpack, I apologize for not seeing it.

a reply to: Euphem

Euphem, there has been no solid evidence. Roadgravel has seen an article saying his friend left supplies and belives this may be the found backpack. While this is of course a logical supposition, to me it doesn't add up. If his friend has left it isn't lost. Therefore it can't be found.

Though, gravel, did the article mention where the supplies were placed in relation to the footprints? That would help clear things up quite a bit.