Question for ATSers- Do you love unconditionally? Should you?

a reply to: FlyersFan

I love my family unconditionally and it comes very naturally to me without thought or effort. Unconditional love is born when the heart and mind come together in a natural state. It is something that can not be forced to happen.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Would you care to elucidate on this?

WOW .. I had to go look that word up. Kudos to you!

I've known three people who, I believe, expressed and lived unconditional love. I can only give examples of how it was like to be around them.

No matter how evil a person was or how horrid a persons actions were, these three removed their own emotions from the situation and would reach out to help ... either prayerfully or physically make contact ... to try to help raise the evil-doer person up in some way. Maybe not make contact, but they didn't shun the person like many others would have. They didn't boast of their own goodness but instead worked quietly and peacefully. They never raised their voices in anger and always had a kind word. In the face of absolute evil ... like 9/11 ... they condemned the action but at the same time said not to judge those who perp'd it but instead prayed and would say we need to try to make sure it didn't happen again. They never looked for gain in their dealings with others. They lived in the present moment - never hanging on to past hurts or slights - and when you spoke to them all their attention was on the conversation they were having with you ... no distractions. They never spoke of themselves or their own issues (cancer, asthma, etc) but instead always asked how others were.

I can't explain it. It was like they weren't there but instead just a big ball of love was there. And I'm not talking about fake TV preacher type love.

A forth person I knew was probably living that unconditional love as well. I didn't know her very well before she died of cancer. But I'd bet that if she had lived longer and I knew her better, then I could put her in that category as well.

Anyways .... that's why I say I think it is possible but extremely rare.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How dare you compare my beautiful daughter to Hitler!! Just kidding

I see what you are saying, and maybe you're right - it's really hard for me to even imagine my daughter being evil. She's really such a sweet person. And maybe that's why I feel so much love for her - I see the good person she is, even when she occasionally screws up (she's only 12). There are times when she's lied to get out of trouble. There are times when she has been a little "sassy". There are times when she has deliberately disobeyed me. But those are little things that of course don't change my love for her at all. It's expected when you are growing up to challenge the boundaries.

My original point was that I COULD imagine a scenario where I would stop loving anyone else in my life, given the circumstances. I just can't imagine it with my daughter. I think I would always find excuses for her pretty much no matter what she did. Even if she was the new Hitler, I would say that it was circumstances beyond her control that made her that way. I'm just a sucker for my baby girl.

a reply to: Logarock
not really sure what your point was in that video but I will try to respond.
I really don't have that good audio on my computer so I'm am not sure what is going on.
It stuck me as kind of slave/master relationship to me so I will respond as if that was what it was.
As far as the "master" is concerned. Why is he beating the heck out of the guy? Most of the time there is masters above the master could it be that if he didn't they would both be getting a worse beating form the masters above?
I know probably not the guy is just a power hungry jerk!
So now let's focus on the servant in this.
First if you were the servant that was ruthlessly being beaten on a regular basis and knew of someone who could heal your of the injuries would you want them to? I wouldn't! If he did then tomorrow I would be able to get up and do whatever duties I was supposed to do for the guy knowing that another beaten was around the corner! If I am laid up for a few day well maybe the guy would have to suffer the consequences of his actions and learn that beating your servants to a pulp doesn't serve you much at all! I think that love would dictate that we teach the master not to beat his servants badly don't you? Otherwise he will go through his life on this power hungry trip he is on and continually not only do harm to others but himself also! Na I wouldn't want to be miraculously healed! I would wake in the morning wanting to feel every sensation of pain there was and let it hinder my performance as much as possible! Let the consequences of his actions hit him square in the face!

originally posted by: kaylaluv
it's really hard for me to even imagine my daughter being evil.

If my daughter tried to kill my husband .. and she was not insane but instead did it because she was evil .. I'd have no problem calling the cops, prosecuting her to the fullest extent of the law, and I'd write her off. I'd move and not leave a forwarding address and I'd get a restraining order for the day she got out of jail (if she got out).

My love is conditional. I think it's healthy that way.

Yes, I love unconditionally no matter who you are. I may not like some people but that doesn't mean I don't love them.

Love is the key to solving all of our problems, if we loved one another there would be no murder or war, there would be no lies because people would treat others as they would want to be treated. This is why Jesus put so much emphasis on love, because he knew it was and still is the thing that could correct everything wrong with this world.

Emulate Jesus, don't worship him. Be love and everything else will fall into place.

I dont even pretend to be able to love unconditionally. I have a completely loyal love thats like unconditional love to certain people... but "unconditional" love.. thats a hard one Im incapable of. I think there are a few people who have this capability, though Ive never personally met them. If Im being honest, I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily. SO is that love? I dont know really. The only thing I cant turn off it that loyal love... yet even it is conditional and selective.

Should we unconditionally love? That would assume that we ALL are capable of it. Rather, should we all strive to unconditionally love? Thats kind of a funny thought. Id think the capability of it is a natural thing and not a learned thing. Id think that was dishonest if someone claimed it and it was learned or forced.

a reply to: FlyersFan

First off, thank you. You should talk to me more often, I have a large vocabulary and I like to use it. The greater your vocabulary the better you are at getting your point across.

I think you are describing more a zenlike attitude or selflessness. Something like Jesus or Buddha. Both of which are rather hard attributes to attain and live. If what you say is true, I certainly admire them for the way they act. But the thing about that is, I view unconditional love as a directed emotion. It is an emotion that you direct towards another living being or beings not an entire population (though if you say you love the human race unconditionally, you better love everyone the same regardless of the race's flaws like genocide). I think what you described is more of an all encompassing emotion. So I guess, of these three people, how did they manage their personal relationships? Did they have hierarchies for who they liked more than others (acquaintance, friend, best friend, etc)? Did they avoid certain people? These things are conditions that nullify the unconditional factor.

I just think it is hard to understand what unconditional love is. Many people think they experience it or they say they know someone who does, but there is ALWAYS the little caveat. I think that may be due to people not fully understanding what the word "unconditional" means. They think they understand it, and it certainly sounds grand to have it, but they will always have doubts. Doubts become conditions. They reduce the amount of love you give off. But doubts are natural. They are part of the human social experience. To deny they are happening, is just lying to yourself. Can anyone say they've NEVER had an argument with someone they say they love unconditionally?

Let's take another example to understand what I'm getting out. Two people, let's call them Bob and Mary, supposedly love each other unconditionally. But let's also assign a personality flaw to Bob. Let's say that Bob is EXTREMELY needy and is always asking for help regardless if he needs it or not. Now in order for unconditional love to hold true for Mary, she would help him EVERY time he asked without question or regret and if she was physically unable to help him then she would feel bad about it. Now could you say the same of the three people you are thinking of? Would they bend over backwards to help out whoever asked? Consequently, this is also why unconditional love is directed, because achieving it for just ONE living thing is hard enough, let alone many.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: kaylaluv
it's really hard for me to even imagine my daughter being evil.

If my daughter tried to kill my husband .. and she was not insane but instead did it because she was evil .. I'd have no problem calling the cops, prosecuting her to the fullest extent of the law, and I'd write her off. I'd move and not leave a forwarding address and I'd get a restraining order for the day she got out of jail (if she got out).

My love is conditional. I think it's healthy that way.

Couldn't agree more. You can't love everyone, and it is very much best if you didn't try. You will do yourself more harm than good.

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

I think we honest folks without codependent tendencies know.. true unconditional love is something strange and wonderful... and exceedingly rare.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

Because they remember who they fell in love with and why. My parents have all but disowned my sister because she blames them for everything wrong in her life. They love her for the girl they remember, but they are absolutely disgusted by the woman she has become. They can't flip that switch off, but they can sure as hell work around it.

originally posted by: Advantage

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

I think we honest folks without codependent tendencies know.. true unconditional love is something strange and wonderful... and exceedingly rare.

Unconditional love is the equivalent of living in, say, Chicago...and leaving every door and window of your house wide open while broadcasting your wealth and fortune.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I think that kind of love is different then unconditional love. Do you ever get angry at your daughter? I'm sure that you do, she isn't perfect and everyone screws up or acts overly selfish from time to time.

Like what I'm trying to get at with the word unconditional is that you would in effect be spoiling your child all the time every time. Now that wouldn't be such a bad thing if the unconditional love was a two way street and then your daughter wouldn't take advantage of your unconditional love, but we know that pushing boundaries is part of being a child and spoiling them is the wrong answer. We have to create conditions to teach and train our children. Again, with my dog example. Have you ever seen a dog get angry with its master because he withheld food for a little while? The dog may be upset because its hungry, but it will still come to you when you call it and its tail will probably be wagging (if it isn't too starved to do so).

After 13 ex-wives gave up trying to figure out love... though do have compassion for the world around me and people I encounter .. as to love never again ..

Yes you should.

No I don't

I tried it once.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

My definition of unconditional love is not one that can be attained in the flesh, it is supernatural.

Nearest I came to it is the love for my children.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Advantage

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

I think we honest folks without codependent tendencies know.. true unconditional love is something strange and wonderful... and exceedingly rare.

Unconditional love is the equivalent of living in, say, Chicago...and leaving every door and window of your house wide open while broadcasting your wealth and fortune.

Nah, thats not unconditional love. Thats stupid.. suicide by home invasion if you decide to live in such an absurd way.

This love thing... its a weird thing. Its origin isnt in any action, though actions follow it or are a result of it. This love.. even normal love is conditional. You love for your child is conditional. Unconditional love is more of a divine thing. A thing we normal mortals find hard to wrap our heads around, much less actually possess the capability of it. My opinion, of course! There are several types of love from what I understand... and I think there is a divine love that really isnt a human trait... though some strive for it. I mean its not a bad thing to work toward it, but to claim you love unconditionally.. well I really feel its dishonest.

Even people that claim to love unconditionally, actually love conditionally.

"I love my children unconditionally!" - No, you love them because they are your children.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Advantage
I can love someone.. and turn it off.I can completely sever ties with someone I once loved... relatively easily.

Same here. No problem. I can flip the 'love off switch' in an instant. I've never understood folks who were so in love that they hang on to dead end relationships or they 'moon over' lost human loves and friendships. I've never had that problem.

Because they remember who they fell in love with and why. My parents have all but disowned my sister because she blames them for everything wrong in her life. They love her for the girl they remember, but they are absolutely disgusted by the woman she has become. They can't flip that switch off, but they can sure as hell work around it.

This is pretty key to unconditional love, in my opinion. There has to have been something to love in the first place. Would I feel the same way about my daughter if she were unlovable since the time she was born? If she was always unaffectionate, never smiled, was always hateful from day one? I probably wouldn't love her like I do. In fact, she was a sweet baby, a very affectionate child, has always smiled and laughed often. If she stopped smiling and being sweet and affectionate, I would wonder what was wrong, but I wouldn't just stop loving her. I would think that something (or someone) happened to change her - probably something out of her control. Because why would someone intentionally change from loving to hateful without a reason?

Some people are just born bad - that's certainly true. But with those people, you usually see the badness early on - from the time they are children. It's highly unusual for someone to grow up sweet and kind and loving and unselfish - only to change all of a sudden to being hateful, cruel and selfish - at least without some very specific reason causing it.