Militants ‘Executed Non-Muslims’ at Kenyan World Cup Watch Party

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

They may be an extremist sect, but without a doubt they ARE MUSLIM. It doesn't help anyone to try and pretend that they aren't what they say they are so that we are no longer scared of Muslims. The damage is done, and is continued to be done. The issue isn't who are the bad guys, it's how are they dealt with?

I understand your intention, but it is a knee jerk reaction. We all know that we are told they aren't representative of Islam as a whole and are a small % of people, but unfortunately they are the loudest ones too.

I respect your opnion ,however i have to disagree with it.

We concider them to be "khuawarij"

From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.

Thus being an act of apostacy.

they can claim to be "muslim " by "word" however their actions and beliefs are not of Islam.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: Hecate666

I am an atheist but I believe that christians would not stand for it if there was an extreme group, calling themselves christians whilst bringing terror and murder to innocent people. There would be repercussions and acknowledgement that the odd ones have nothing to do with chistianity. How is it that only a handful of muslims are speaking out?

For exactly the same reason that only a handful of catholics condemned the IRA after each bombing.

Is that sarcasm? Being Catholic didn't make you support the IRA anymore than being Protestant made you support their equivalent. I can only speak for Catholics I know at the time the troubles were at their worse, and I can only speak from being based in England at the time.

a reply to: GreenMtnBoys


Listen , I am an American Muslim my self. I understand your frustration, but firstly you need to relax and understand their is no conspiracy to take over the west with Islam lol.. Your right its not compatible ! i as a muslim do not understand why other Muslims around the world are are pushing for shariah law in countrys that fallow democracy. Simply put if Muslims want to live by shariah then they need to move to a country that supports it.
This has been ruled upon already.

And if you are worried about Islam spreading by force , DON'T ! To be Muslim means to summit your will to god,say how can you force anyone to submit their will to god ?.

Now addressing the extremists or as us Muslims call them "khuwarij"

From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.

Yes these people are a problem, and yes Muslims like my self are trying to educate them and reach out to the misguided.
However its not a simple task.

Because to be quite honest the US and other countries are responsible for breeding a new generation of "terrorist /khuararij/apostates "
Its hard to distinguish who is a "terrorist" and who brother abdullah seeking revenge for the drone strike that just took out his family..
Do you understand ?


Its called breeding terrorism..

Quran 5:33

8:12

8:57

9:5

9:29

9:14

9:30

17:16 (they did invite Americans to Islam before 9/11)

Just a few examples... There are many more ... Everyone should do their own research... Never take the words of others.

The prophet was this world's first true false prophet, and his religion has found a way into the souls of billions.

Islam evil? ...you decide.

a reply to: jmdewey60

These people would be "those" people who defile a religion in order to justify murder of others.

Way to try and deflect / obfuscate though by blaming anyone but those who did the murdering.

originally posted by: ausername
Quran 5:33

8:12

8:57

9:5

9:29

9:14

9:30

17:16 (they did invite Americans to Islam before 9/11)

Just a few examples... There are many more ... Everyone should do their own research... Never take the words of others.

The prophet was this world's first true false prophet, and his religion has found a way into the souls of billions.

Islam evil? ...you decide.

If your going to post suras from the Quran than at least post explanations through hadith...

I'll adreess your first posted sura 5 vs 33

5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter
The context of this verse itself will clear any negative perceptions against Islam. One cannot quote verse 5:33 without quoting verse 5:32 (prohibition of murder) and verse 5:34 (command to forgive). Let us examine the verse in its proper context:

5:32-34 ...If any one slew a person - unless it be as punishment for murder or for spreading corruption in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

There are several points to note here. The first is the gravity of the offense. This is punishment for WAGING WAR against the Prophet of God and spreading evil and destruction. In modern terminology this would be considered “terrorism”. This is a punishment for such a severe offense, hence the severity of the punishment. As Muhammad Asad writes on this verse:

The present participle la-musrifun indicates their “continuously committing excesses” (i.e., crimes), and is best rendered as “they go on committing” them. In view of the preceding passages, these “excesses” obviously refer to crimes of violence and, in particular, to the ruthless killing of human beings. (Asad, The Message of the Qur’an)

The present participle la-musrifun indicates their “continuously committing excesses” (i.e., crimes), and is best rendered as “they go on committing” them. In view of the preceding passages, these “excesses” obviously refer to crimes of violence and, in particular, to the ruthless killing of human beings. (Asad, The Message of the Qur’an)
It is quite shocking to see how many Islam-haters will place this verse under the heading of “inciting Muslims to kill and wage war”, whereas the verse commands nothing of this sort! In fact, it comes directly after a verse prohibiting murder and likening the unjust murder of a single individual to the slaughter of humanity. The Qur’an purposefully describes the gravity of the sin before describing the punishment. The crime of murder and committing terrorist activities is regarded as such a severe violation in Islam, that a severe retribution has been prescribed. Waging war against God’s prophet is tantamount to waging war against Our Creator Himself. It is ironic that Islam-haters will present this verse to justify their claim that Islam supports terrorism, whereas Muslim scholars have always presented this verse as proof that Islam is vehemently opposed to terrorism. For example, the Islamic Fiqh Council of Saudi Arabia writes about this verse:

Obviously, in view of the enormity of such acts of aggression, which are viewed by the Shari’ah (Islamic law) as an act of war against the laws and the creatures of God, there is no stricter punishment anywhere in the manmade laws. (Islamic Fiqh Council of Saudi Arabia, Terrorism – Islam’s viewpoint, Muslim World League Journal, Jumad al-Ula 1423/July 2002 CE)

You need to educate your self more ...

Just saying..



theamericanmuslim.org...

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
Remind everyone that Al Shabab are NOT Muslims nor do they represent Islam

So then why are the 3 sects of Islam at war with each other?

originally posted by: yourmaker

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
Remind everyone that Al Shabab are NOT Muslims nor do they represent Islam

So then why are the 3 sects of Islam at war with each other?

What 3 sects are you refering to?

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have... No disclaimers or explanations required.

The whole Quran, and hadith.... Violent Islam and acts of evil are not for all Muslims, if it were then it would not be an issue, because no one would be Muslim, or want to be... Two faces of Islam ... Which you choose to see is up to you.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I have... No disclaimers or explanations required.

The whole Quran, and hadith.... Violent Islam and acts of evil are not for all Muslims, if it were then it would not be an issue, because no one would be Muslim, or want to be... Two faces of Islam ... Which you choose to see is up to you.

Also its the lack of educatuon about Islam and inovation that lead people off the path..

But underatand people commit acts of murder and sucide that have NOTHING to do with islam.

Islam does not teach such thigs... Its pure ignorance

a reply to: Xcathdra

Way to try and deflect / obfuscate though by blaming anyone but those who did the murdering.

Supposedly they were the same people who did the alleged massacre at the Kenyan shopping mall.
That had a lot of suspicious elements pointing to a false flag attack.
Hired hit men don't necessarily espouse any ideology other than making money, and the way they went about it could have been according to a scrip that was part of their instructions.
It could also be just ordinary protection racket operations, to hire Israeli security companies, like Qaddafi did before he got abandoned when he really needed it.

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

They may be an extremist sect, but without a doubt they ARE MUSLIM. It doesn't help anyone to try and pretend that they aren't what they say they are so that we are no longer scared of Muslims. The damage is done, and is continued to be done. The issue isn't who are the bad guys, it's how are they dealt with?

I understand your intention, but it is a knee jerk reaction. We all know that we are told they aren't representative of Islam as a whole and are a small % of people, but unfortunately they are the loudest ones too.

I respect your opnion ,however i have to disagree with it.

We concider them to be "khuawarij"

From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.

Thus being an act of apostacy.

they can claim to be "muslim " by "word" however their actions and beliefs are not of Islam.

If what you state is true then why hasn't your mainstream religious leaders condemned these barbarous acts publicly? The Catholic church excommunicates people who shame it.Why don't muslims?

originally posted by: TDawg61

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: sputniksteve
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

They may be an extremist sect, but without a doubt they ARE MUSLIM. It doesn't help anyone to try and pretend that they aren't what they say they are so that we are no longer scared of Muslims. The damage is done, and is continued to be done. The issue isn't who are the bad guys, it's how are they dealt with?

I understand your intention, but it is a knee jerk reaction. We all know that we are told they aren't representative of Islam as a whole and are a small % of people, but unfortunately they are the loudest ones too.

I respect your opnion ,however i have to disagree with it.

We concider them to be "khuawarij"

From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death.

Thus being an act of apostacy.

they can claim to be "muslim " by "word" however their actions and beliefs are not of Islam.

If what you state is true then why hasn't your mainstream religious leaders condemned these barbarous acts publicly? The Catholic church excommunicates people who shame it.Why don't muslims?

Their are ! Great scholar's who speak out about it. Its just not covered by the media here in the USA .


One can only "excommunicate" himself from Islam if he chosee to . that would require him to deny ALLAH (god) and the tawheed (oneness of god)

Even though these groups commit such terrible acts its hard to tell if they are of disbelief . we can only assume through their actions that they are .

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
Thank you for your imput on this issue.The fact that individuals or groups cant be banned by their religious authorities may be a problem for your faith.It seems impossible under those rules for the true faithful to separate themselves from the jihadists. Ashame really.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

It is also pure ignorance to dismiss the inherent evils within Islam, and Islamic cultures.

Ever been to an Islamic country that actually adheres to the strictest interpretations of Islam?

What say you of them, their brutality and oppression of women and girls, and blatant crimes against humanity?

Islam stands against evil and is peaceful, respectful and tolerant of others, until they can take over and impose full Islamic law over a people and country... Then you get to see the other face of Islam.

It isn't pretty.

originally posted by: TDawg61
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere
Thank you for your imput on this issue.The fact that individuals or groups cant be banned by their religious authorities may be a problem for your faith.It seems impossible under those rules for the true faithful to separate themselves from the jihadists. Ashame really.

Islam has no "head of state" this would be differint if we were under a caliph but we are not.
Its not impossible to seporate our selfs , but it feels like it at times, when we have a majority of westerners who group us all into one catagory .
But under a state of shariah law these "khuaraij" would be punished and death might be an opnion for them.
As the saying goes an eye for an eye....

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

It is also pure ignorance to dismiss the inherent evil. within Islam, and Islamic cultures.

Ever been to an Islamic country that actually adheres to the strictest interpretations of Islam?

What say you of them, their brutality and oppression of women and girls, and blatant crimes against humanity?

Islam stands against evil and is peaceful, respectful and tolerant of others, until they can take over and impose full Islamic law over a people and country... Then you get to see the other face of Islam.

It isn't pretty.

Your speaking pure blasphemy !!

Have ever been to an "Islamic country" as you say?

I am MUSLIM an I am telling you your wrong!

Sure their is "wife kidnapping " in Kazakhstan , or woman forced to wear niqab in Afghanistan. But this NOT Islam.
Its CULTURE.. Understand? Over many years people have introduced these innovations into Islam in their respective regions.
This causes divisions within the umma (nation) thus forming differing sects.

Its not hard to comprehend , but ill put it in terms that you can comprehend it.. .

Example : is Italian food part of the catholic church?

Get it?

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Is Mecca not in Saudi Arabia?

It is more than culture there. It is Islam. Hang around and observe some beheadings, or stonings, and see how women are living there.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Is Mecca not in Saudi Arabia?

It is more than culture there. It is Islam. Hang around and observe some beheadings, or stonings, and see how women are living there.

Lol , forgive my laughter ... Mecca is the home of the kabbah a holy site.
No beheadings take place their...

Furthurmore ...stoning is again agaainst Islam and does not take place in Saudi Arabia.

Stoning is not Islamic and violates the Quran which contain the word of God

The Stoning sentence is exclusive for the Torah which law only applies to Jews:

Old testament [21.21]
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, so that he die. So shalt thou put evil away from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

 

You can find it in more verses of the Old Testament: (12:10) (17:23456) (21:21) (22:21222324)

God says in Quran that Quran is the new law because the Gospel and Tora were corrupted by men

[05.49]وَأَنِ احْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ وَلا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ وَاحْذَرْهُمْ أَنْ يَفْتِنُوكَ عَنْ بَعْضِ مَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكَ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ أَنْ يُصِيبَهُمْ بِبَعْضِ ذُنُوبِهِمْ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنَ النَّاسِ لَفَاسِقُونَ


[05:49]Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah

So what punishment do God order when men and women committed adultery?

[24.02] الزَّانِيَةُ وَالزَّانِي فَاجْلِدُوا كُلَّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا مِائَةَ جَلْدَةٍ وَلا تَأْخُذْكُمْ بِهِمَا رَأْفَةٌ فِي دِينِ اللَّهِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلْيَشْهَدْ عَذَابَهُمَا طَائِفَةٌ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

[24.02]The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, - flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day:and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

“Flog each of them with a hundred stripes” is very different from “Stone them to dead”. There is nothing the Quran about stoning… Nothing, Nada.

It continues to explain more if you feel like educating yourself

www.islamic-myths.com...


Now as far as the beheading.. Their is no hiding from that!
Just like their is no hiding from death row in the USA...
I think being electrocuted is far worse than getting your head lopped off.
The US executes way more people per year than the saudi government . it comes down to what you think is "humain"

As far as the stoning goes.. Its sad and disgusting that it has happened to woman in other countries because of ignorance of understanding hadith ..

And guess where? Yup Somalia! .. Pakistan ..maybe. Shia ruled Iran
But not Saudi Arabia in our lifetime..

Please educate your self and read the link