Cope Taufan 2014

I saw a picture of a taxiing F-22 on facebook stating it was in Malaysia for Cope Taufan 2014.

I then checked You-tube and there was a Video showing Su-30s and F-22s it was implying a potential showdown between the two.

Next I googled it and there's pictures, the oldest 5 days showing F-22s, I believe four in formation and various shots on the ground. Nothing on F-16.net about it at all.

All right Zaph, what's going on?? Anyone else know about this "exercise"?

a reply to: nwtrucker

www.janes.com...

Looks like it's going to be a big ol' simulated shoot fest!

a reply to: Sammamishman Thanks, apparently the 22s are out of Hawaii.

a reply to: nwtrucker

The F-22s going against Su-30s? Really interested in the results.

a reply to: an0nThinker No kidding!! Imagine all the trash talk. LOL

You just know Russia will have some "technicians" on hand who report back to Moscow and our guys to D.C..

The trouble is like the little spar between the Rafael with the F-22 in the UAE a few years back, cutting through the trash talk is next to impossible and no one says much of anything "officially".

I'll be checking You Tube regularly as well as googling it.

I guess we're stuck with Zaph's ultra filtered reports of it.LOL.

The F-22s won't be using their full potential at exercises like this. Its just like red flag when our "allies" are there. Most of the systems are shut off on the jets and they add something non stealthy to the jet so other countries can't see the RCS of the Aircraft. Like when the F-16s flying with their gear down next to the B-2 flying over Korea...

a reply to: boomer135 Still, boys being boys, BCM will be the measuring stick and the point of competition. I'd guess.

I still like the T/W ratio of the Raptor over the SU and the higher deflection of the 2D TV over the 3D SU version. Add in the SU's version is mechanical and the Raptor's is CPU'd, the Raptor should wiped the SU out without all the BVR gadgets.

...I think..LOL

a reply to: nwtrucker

In WVR the SU is as good as anything else out there. The big advantage in BVR not WVR.

a reply to: an0nThinker

You may be right. I'm going on that report from 2004 when the SU-30MKIs went against the F-15(C)? from Mountain Home AFB prior to Red Flag.

It was senior pilots in the 15s and apparently they ate up the Indians pretty easily. (pilot experience?)

That makes this encounter interesting.

a reply to: nwtrucker

It also helped that the 15's trained against the F22's and know what to do when the relatively inexperienced SU driver lost energy when vectoring thrust.
As you said it probably comes down to experience. We ate the SU's in Red Flag (probably due to experience), they ate us when we were in India (probably due to experience).

I also think it is worth mention that the SU, in many respects is much more demanding to fly at the edge of it's envelope than the F22. Even though they may be able to perform the same maneuvers it takes a lot more attention to multi tasking to do it in the SU from what I heard.

a reply to: Sammamishman
This is mostly true. Also the SU's had radars in training mode and no AWAC support or data links. If you see that briefing on youtube, it clearly mentions that the SU's are better than any US legacy platforms. A lot of that briefing is inaccurate.

Hopefully there mock dogfight don't end like this (yes I know completely absurd but cool none the less):

a reply to: Sammamishman

I'd like to know what engine this was rendered on...would make for a pretty sweet game lol




Edit: Never mind, didn't watch the credits at the end....pretty neat. But yes, absolutely absurd.

These pictures are from Taufan, 2014 - about a day old:

www.google.com... 28#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=AIrZB3USPqKTPM%253A%3BLR_K_2kB-K13TM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fmalaysiaflyingherald.files.wordpress.com%252F2014%252F06%252Fciks u.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmalaysiaflyingherald.wordpress.com%252F%3B670%3B481

www.google.com... 28#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=DLprQQZANoVWPM%253A%3BNVFa-xn-UEwnGM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fst.baodatviet.vn%252FstaticFile%252FSubject%252F2014%252F06%252F12 %252Ftiem-kich-f-22-raptor-doi-dau-su-30mkm-datviet.vn-06_1202650.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fbaodatviet.vn%252Fanh-nong%252Ftiem-kich-f-22-se-thua-khi-d oi-dau-voi-su-30mkm-tai-malaysia-3041897%252F%3B593%3B550

This is one day old

Cool shot of a F22 vs F15 WVR dog fight:



Aviationist

Nice formation shot of the major fighter players, gives a perspective of size of the different jets:



Link to HiRez:

www.thebaseleg.com...

The F-22 has the advantage at the merge, but if you can manage your energy and make him work for it, the Raptor eventually bleeds energy and is slow to recover initially. That means if you can keep him in the fight long enough or have another jet with you, the advantage eventually swings to you.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I'm curious of the results from the DACT exercises and the ROE's? I also think BVR the F22 is scary.

a reply to: Zaphod58

What happens to that scenario when it is 2 Raptors vs 2 enemy I wonder?

a reply to: Sammamishman

It's kind of interesting because BVR the Raptor is unbeatable almost. But if you break down all the BVR kills since Vietnam, it's pretty eye opening.

Israel has the highest percentage at (I'm going from memory here) something like 16%. The US comes in at like 9%. The longer the range the lower the PK and the easier it becomes to generate a miss.

Those numbers will improve in an all out war, and as seeker technology improves, but it gives you an idea why I keep saying WVR is important.