Thought this was interesting...A really good take on psychotropic stimulants

...or should I say psychotropic stimulants as associated with children's "learning disorders"...

It’s the latest thing. Psychiatrists are now giving children in poor neighborhoods Adderall, a dangerous stimulant, by making false diagnoses of ADHD, or no diagnoses at all. Their aim? To “promote social justice,” to improve academic performance in school. The rationale is, the drugged kids will now be able to compete with children from wealthier families who attend better schools.

The following pronouncement makes a number of things clear: The 1994 Textbook of Psychiatry, published by the American Psychiatric Press, contains this review (Popper and Steingard):”Stimulants [given for ADHD] do not produce lasting improvements in aggressivity, conduct disorder, criminality, education achievement, job functioning, marital relationships, or long-term adjustment.” So the whole basis for this “social justice” program in low-income communities—that the ADHD drugs will improve school performance of kids and “level the playing field,” so they can compete academically with children from wealthier families—this whole program is based on a lie to begin with. Meddling with the brains of children via these chemicals constitutes criminal assault, and it’s time it was recognized for what it is.

It has always been my opnion that ADD and ADHD were "made up" disorders.
children have had trouble concentrating since the beginning of time, right? Used to be that if you weren't paying attention the teacher might chuck an eraser at your head. That got you alert real fast...

just a thought...

They tried that crap with my daughter. I asked them to administer a test to see her level of comprehension of the various subjects she was having trouble in. I made kind of a big deal about it and they finally indulged me, if only to stop me from filing complaints and calling the principal and superintendent.

Turned out she was bored and had already learned everything they were teaching a year earlier in the school district she transferred from. I think grade skipping is out of the question in modern times (I skipped 2 grades way back when but it never seems to come up anymore) so their given options were to push the drugs on her or tell her essentially "tough luck, deal with learning it again". Now she's what used to be an A student and the year is almost over. No drugging.

a reply to: edaced4

So you think ADD and ADHD are made up conditions? How about schizophrenia, depression, ptsd and bipolar disorder? Are those made up as well? Are those, in your opinion, nothing but a call for attention, cowardice or plain boredom? Do you have a medical degree? You state such an aggressive opion as if it it's rooted in fact, surely you must be a trained psychiatrist or neurologist?

Who are you to determine what conditions are real or not? If you had any of the conditions above, you would change your tune real quick. The world is not subject to your one dimensional perspective. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you spout your pseudogarbage nonsensical opinions on something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

Tl/dr: Not this crap again, please.

I have taken an Adderall once. No way in hell would I give that to a kid. It is straight up speed.

This is all I have to say



Lyrics
Mommy, what does hyper mean?
The teacher says I'll never read
Says I need to take a pill
So I can learn to sit real still
The microwaves did something to our brains
We need to take these pills to help us change

Please let me take them
I don't want to be an idiot
Ritalin will make me smart
At least that's what my teacher says

All the other kids take them
I think I am the only one
I need something to slow me down
I talk too much 'cause I am dumb

Mommy what's a deficit?
I think it means that I can't sit
Disorder of attention and I don't learn the lesson
Mommy, please help me see the light
Don't you know my teacher's always right?

Please let me take them
I don't want to be an idiot
Ritalin will make me smart
At least that's what my teacher says

All the other kids take them
I think I am the only one
I need something to slow me down
I talk too much 'cause I am dumb

Joey started on week four, he's not in trouble anymore
Suzy in it on week nine, now she's never out of line
Now she's never ever out of

Please let me take them
I don't want to be an idiot
Mommy takes my Ritalin
There's not enough for me she said

All the other moms take them
I think it's not just mine
I don't know if she's smarter now
But at least she's doin' fine

originally posted by: edaced4


It has always been my opnion that ADD and ADHD were "made up" disorders.
children have had trouble concentrating since the beginning of time, right? Used to be that if you weren't paying attention the teacher might chuck an eraser at your head. That got you alert real fast...

just a thought...

This seems too weird....

So to answer your question I was close to the first group in the 60s to receive Ritalin for hyperactivity and it helped me tremendously. With that said my dose was a quarter of a pill, and today I been reading that kids are prescribed 10 times the dose that what was considered the normal amount back then.

So we need to look at both over prescriptions and prescriptions for the wrong reasons. With these drugs one side effect is suicidal tendencies, so I just do not understand why they use them today as they do.

originally posted by: Snoopy1978
a reply to: edaced4

So you think ADD and ADHD are made up conditions? How about schizophrenia, depression, ptsd and bipolar disorder? Are those made up as well? Are those, in your opinion, nothing but a call for attention, cowardice or plain boredom? Do you have a medical degree? You state such an aggressive opion as if it it's rooted in fact, surely you must be a trained psychiatrist or neurologist?

Who are you to determine what conditions are real or not? If you had any of the conditions above, you would change your tune real quick. The world is not subject to your one dimensional perspective. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you spout your pseudogarbage nonsensical opinions on something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

My OPINION about whether ADD and ADHD are "made up" is just that. It's mine. No, I do not have a medical degree.

The other disorders you mention...hhmmm...they are seemingly treated by SSRIs

Never mind that the SSRI antidepressants (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, et al) can and do produce violent behavior. Suicide, homicide. See work of Peter Breggin, SSRI Stories, and David Healy.

My opinion, whether right or wrong is still mine. Determining what conditions are real or not is the anecdote that I shared...erasers to the head and all...

Promote social justice. Lol. Promote phyzer

originally posted by: Snoopy1978
a reply to: edaced4

So you think ADD and ADHD are made up conditions? How about schizophrenia, depression, ptsd and bipolar disorder? Are those made up as well? Are those, in your opinion, nothing but a call for attention, cowardice or plain boredom? Do you have a medical degree? You state such an aggressive opion as if it it's rooted in fact, surely you must be a trained psychiatrist or neurologist?

I would lean towards over diagnoses for ADD/ADHD and PTSD just because they seem to be the favorite flavor of today.

a reply to: edaced4
It s slowly coming out that SSRI's are the worst thing you can give to someone with PTSD. Yet they are still prescribed to PTSD patients left and right.

For the ADHD ADD problems, try:
eating almost 100% organic, and
do not eat stuff from the Pacific,
do not eat stuff from USA if outside...,
do not eat stuff from China,
do not eat or use stuff using fluor,
do not eat stuff using Aspartame, Nutrasweet, Splanda and similars ! ! !
do not eat stuff using GMO,OGM,
do not eat stuff using MSG,GMS,
do not eat stuff using colors,
do not eat in junk food's restos type. . .
CUT THE SUGAR$ ! ! !

Eating almost no bad chemicals must help !

Blue skies.

I don't believe ADHD is a real. Fidgety, can't pay attention? Very normal for a child, I would say.
I was bored in school. Didn't pay attention and had the teacher slam his hand down on my desk yelling " wake up!". I am the same way as an adult. I drift off into space if I'm bored. It's just how I am.

Sounds more like an excuse to begin drugging the population down at an early age. Start the conditioning.

My son had a friend who was indeed hyper. Although I cannot say I knew him before he was put on Ritalin. He was a bad kid, a real prankster. I don't know if he just pretended not to understand it wasn't ok to put pennies on train tracks or pull the stop sign out of the road at the end of my street. He was about 7 feet tall. He once burnt a motel down , by accident, smoking. He stole my exes truck when he left it running in the driveway. Just hopped in, drives off and did donuts in the school parking lot. Destroyed the axel. 3k of damage. His reaction was just to laugh. I used to think it was Ritalin that did this to him.
He ended up a crack addict, in jail, rehab. The whole works. No idea how he is now. At any rate it didn't prevent any criminality

When kids can't pay attention in class, I blame the teacher who is lacking skills in engaging an audience. Some people can talk, tell a story and hold your attention, while others bore you to tears. It's a simple fact. Some subjects can be boring or fun to learn, depends on the teacher. At least that's how it worked for me as far as my grades went.

a reply to: violet
That is what my husband says and he IS a teacher.

originally posted by: Snoopy1978
a reply to: edaced4

So you think ADD and ADHD are made up conditions? How about schizophrenia, depression, ptsd and bipolar disorder? Are those made up as well? Are those, in your opinion, nothing but a call for attention, cowardice or plain boredom? Do you have a medical degree? You state such an aggressive opion as if it it's rooted in fact, surely you must be a trained psychiatrist or neurologist?

Who are you to determine what conditions are real or not? If you had any of the conditions above, you would change your tune real quick. The world is not subject to your one dimensional perspective. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you spout your pseudogarbage nonsensical opinions on something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

Tl/dr: Not this crap again, please.

goodness...I am going to take a guess that you have personal experience with it.

OP did specifically it was an opinion. Never claimed to have an MD or PhD and here's the thing. Those degrees are a cry for appeal to authority and not always as strong as you think.

You took a great deal of time with other fallacies as well such as generalization. Did OP mention that he thought schizophrenia and bipolar weren't real? I sure didn't see it but you had no problem trying to saddle him with those ideas

OP mentioned THEIR opinion and OP is welcome to it

now...as for ADD/ADHD...yes I believe they are real. I also believe they are MASSIVELY over-diagnosed. A kid speaks out in class, acts up and BAM....ADHD and Adderall

It is a major problem that we are so quickly drugging our kids without a major workup and intensive study into the child. I cannot even begin to tell you how many children come to my door step with mom crying out ADHD!!! I won't be disingenuous...some of the kids I see legitimately do have it and for a select few, low dose stimulants do help. But I posit that it is a minority of kids who are truly ADHD/ADD. Rather, I see the problem is big pharma has a durg and needs to make their dollars, so information on the illness is vague and not-too-careful in wording

ritalindeath.com...

is often easily distracted...I haven't met a kid yet that DOESN'T meet this...they are KIDS.
Does not listen when spoken to...see above
Often has trouble organizing things...

well I am not going to bore you with a bunch of "see above" comments

instead let me give you my professional opinion

you seem to like appeal to authority. I am an MA, LPC, QMHP and specialize in disorders of anxiety spectrum. I also am a long time, legitimate sufferer of bipolar I disorder and GAD. I work in a clinic whose doctors see all ages and personally work with an MD/PhD who is a child behavior specialist. I have personally done a year of therapy on two children diagnosed with ADHD

YES...I believe ADHD exists...but there are two serious problems in the criteria

1. It's vague...like it or not it is vague.

Look at another example...Schizophrenia

dnalc.org...

It's more spceific...cleaner...easier to spot and come up with answers to. If I have a person come to our clinic, it's simple to observe that this client is responding to internal stimuli. When they tell me they believe they have their "sister climbing around inside of them" I can say...yes this is delusional and paranoid

but go back to ADHD

ritalindeath.com...

trouble organizing...dislikes things with a lot of mental effort over a long period of time

I again say I have yet to meet even a healthy kid who wants to do algebra for two hours...but then...we never defined it did we? What is "a lot of mental effort" and what is "a long period of time"?

which bring me to factor 2

2. Who decides what fits in the criteria.

"Is often on the go as if driven by a motor"

seriously? Kids run around...they have boundless energy...I was a kid and never sat still. I had a world to adventure into and learn. I had to know things, grasp them, touch them, play, have fun, see my friends

now tell me in the middle of this that I have to sit and pay attention to a boring teacher talking about the Civil War...

yes as an adult I love learning. I get great joy from studying my MBA courses. But that's just it...I am almost 35. I;ve matured, grown and moved beyond childish pursuits

To me, while (again to say it) ADHD does eist in some cases, we've invented not a disease, but criteria that can fit most children who are otherwise healthy and active

And btw...just because an MD says something does not make it true

MD's constantly misdiagnose and gloss over criteria...hell I wa sspecifically trained to diagnose and treat GAD, ASD and PTSD...you think I never misdiagnose something or mistreat? hell yeah I do...not terribly often...but then that brings me to my last point and I am gonna pick on EVERYONE...including myself in the medical/mental health field

We get over-focused on things...it happens like it or not

the flavor of the day is ADHD so doctors get over-focused...it's like when Penicillin came out...wonder drug and saved humanity...until they started giving it to everyone who coughed once...

The medical community is too focused on ADHD right now...and due to that focus and of course, the dealings and pushings of big pharma, the community will diagnose any kid who talks back or acts up...because frankly, and you can disagree all you want, teachers and parents are either unable or unwilling to deal with kids who act up

you tell me what's easier...

I am a 35 year old, teacher, burnt out and Johnny is throwing spit balls again (as kids do...). Johnny talks out and doesn't want to do math

I can try and counsel Johnny, talk to mom, talk to the administration and try and help Johnny focus by engaging him and making learning more exciting (and trust me learning can be VERY exciting...if only the educator cares about what they do)

or....

I can call a doctor and have him placed on adderall...now Johnny sits quietly, zombie-like and man I don't ever have issues with him anymore! amazing...and so much easier to pass the buck

now...the final issue is this self-fulfilling prophecy we cultivate as a lazy society

yes Johnny is now calm, but with the exception of side effects, most kids on these pills will relax...so you see it as cause and effect

I "feel" Johnny had ADHD
Johnny is now calm on Adderall
Johnny had ADHD

I feel from your post that you have personal experience...and I don't doubt your claim if that is so...but please don't fall into the trap of thinking that there isn't a serious and malignant over-diagnosis issue to consider...

and yes...that's my professional opinion

a reply to: KyoZero

terribly sorry for my numerous grammar mistakes...I didn't do my usual type in Word then post thing

sorry about that...point still stands though

I took those meds in elementary school and up to 6th class because I have Asperger's syndrome, which is similiar to ADHD because bad concentration and repetitive movements are some of the symptoms. I can't remember if or how it worked.