Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

The problem is it hasn't been answered actually.

Like I said WBCs only live 3-4 days. They're always being replaced without shooting your white count to hell while metabolizing(?)/catabolizing(?) muscle (yes, muscle too) and fat dumping toxins into your system. Sounds like an unhealthy way to get to a healthy ending that you would normally get to anyway. What part of what I'm saying do you not get?

BTW, first of all you need to calm down and keep reading below.

There is a big difference. While low carbohydrate diets reduce your WBCs, intervals of 3 days of water fast and then re-feeding has been shown to reduce WBCs more, as well as lower more the IGF-1 and PKA activity than just a low carbohydrate diet.

The research I link below shows previous studies of NCKD (No Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet) had significantly smaller xenograft tumors and longer survival than mice fed a westernized diet.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Yes, the above research was done on mice. However, in this thread the main research which so far shows promising results was done on people.

Below is another research which shows how "total and free IGF-1 concentrations were significantly lower in moderately protein restricted individuals on the long term (1-6 years).
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

What do you get when you put together No Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet and moderately protein restricted diet? Prolonged safe fasting, as in the 3 day water fast and feeding at 72 hours diet performed by people on the research this thread is all about. You should refer to the research this thread is about for more info on how to do this safe 3 day water fast diet.

Humans can't maintain exaggerated water fasting without adverse side effects, however short intervals of water fasts "so far" seem to have a lasting benefit for a majority of the people who were on trial, including a majority of those who suffer from cancer and were also part of the trial. Again it depends on whether you can, or can't do 3 day water fasting due to "some" other health related problem such as Arrhythmia. Which is why you always need to consult with your doctor.

Second of all, I am not a doctor, so before you even start contemplating sequential 3 day water fasting and then allowing your body to recuperate while eating a healthy diet for x amount of time, to then again do another cycle of 3 day water fasting, etc; you need to "consult with your doctor." If you see that your doctor does not want to even think, much less research this alternative method you might want to seek a second and even third opinion from other doctors. Heck, to be safe consult with more than one doctor. It never hurts.

Third, every person is unique. So what works for one person might not work the same way for another. Some people have a stronger immune system, others have a high metabolism while not having such a strong immune system as other people due to x related health problem, etc.

Some people such as diabetics, or people who suffer certain heart related problems, such as arrhythmia, and who at the same time have some form of cancer or want to achieve other benefits "similar" from doing safe water fasting "cannot" try this form of alternative healing. However people with these problems might want to instead consider the use of another approach such as using the phytoalexing substance known as resveratrol which has been produced by chemical and biotechnological synthesis.

Again, I am not saying that you should become an alcoholic because we all know that this is detrimental. But rather what I am saying is that use of the synthesized form of resveratrol might be your solution instead of resorting to continuous water fasting (not the exaggerated starvation used by some people).

Resveratrol is a strong topoisomerase inhibitor which shares similarities with chemotherapeutic anticancer drugs such as Doxorubicin, but without the adverse life-threatening heart damage caused by chemotherapeutic anticancer drugs.

Anyway, if your doctor, or second and third opinion from other doctors state that water fasting could be a beneficial alternative for you, you need to take precautions and start slow. You might need to give a longer time period for your body to recuperate from a 3 day water fast than other people might need. Pretty much you do have to listen to your own body. It's obvious that if you can do a water fast at first you will feel hungry, but this will pass. But when your body goes hungry again and you start getting some adverse effects such as insomnia, sleepiness, recurrent vomiting, etc; your body is telling you to stop right there and slowly go back to a healthy diet (whatever healthy diet is recommended to you by your doctor).

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
...
Enhanced? How so? I don't see that in the graphic.

On the graph it is right under the word "fasting".

For individuals who are not diabetic or/and don't have some other health problem that prevents them from using water fasting, 3 day fasting re-feeding at 72 hours, and fasting again as the people did in the research posted by member indigent, this might be a good way to fight health problems such as cancers without the use of chemotherapy or anti-cancer drugs. Again, check with your doctor.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
I also see the IGF-1 arrow pointing up. It doesn't have to be that way while feeding. Severe carb restriction will prevent IGF-1 increase while still feeding on protein and fat. Interesting tidbit.

Well, as long as you can safely inhibit IGF-1 or/and PKA signaling it will mimic "to an extent" the results from 3 day water fasting; except that "safe" water fasting could very well be better and more effective in helping those people with cancer and "some" other health related problems, not related with diabetes or other health problems such as arrythmia that will prevent them from using this approach. As it is shown on the study conducted on the people who participated in the 3 day fasting research; it has shown benefits so far.

You do need to check with your doctor to see whether he/she thinks this might be safe for you. Do what works for you. If your doctor gives you the ok to water fasting maybe it might be good to give it a try.

Pfftttttttt 3 days is nothing.... try 30-90 days.

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
Pfftttttttt 3 days is nothing.... try 30-90 days.

That is not safe. Also even the 3 day fast shouldn't be done to children or by pregnant women...

Just in case some people have any ideas...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
Pfftttttttt 3 days is nothing.... try 30-90 days.

That is not safe. Also even the 3 day fast shouldn't be done to children or by pregnant women...

Just in case some people have any ideas...

I think it's ok to do it once or twice a year.... But it's usually done when peoples feel their lives are infiltrated by evil, From what I've seen I guess everyone has their own reasons, health, spirituality, whatever.

originally posted by: 3u40r15m


I think it's ok to do it once or twice a year.... But it's usually done when peoples feel their lives are infiltrated by evil, From what I've seen I guess everyone has their own reasons, health, spirituality, whatever.

You are not going to get rid of "the evil of the world", or the "evil in your life" by starving your body for 30-90 days or causing any other type of harm on your body... That's ignorance speaking. But doing water fasting for 30-90 days will certainly harm your body and even cause permanent damage to organs and death if you go 2+ months doing it.

If your doctor says it is ok it should be done correctly, not however people want because most people, such as yourself really don't know how to read the warning signs your body is giving you.

As shown by the research conducted most people who were part of the research got good promising results from following the 3 day water fast.

If you want to "get rid of evil in your life" start by doing good and praying, not by causing physical harm to your body.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But doing water fasting for 30-90 days will certainly harm your body and even cause permanent damage to organs and death if you go 2+ months doing it.

Please stop spreading disinfo. I clearly explained this in my last post to you that you seemed to conveniently ignore again. You are confusing starvation with fasting. Please read my post. It will not "certainly" harm your body. It can if not done right under proper supervision. You are assuming it is harmful because you don't understand the difference between water fasting and starvation. It depends on how much fat you have. 30 days is doable and many folks do it without any harm to their bodies. Anything beyond 20 days, you should be either be a fasting professional or be supervised by one before even attempting. You said it above, that every person is unique. So stop giving false deadlines and expectations about death via fasting when it's different for everyone. We get it. You don't like water fasting. No need to go on a crusade of slander against it. Some of us do it regularly without issue. Some prefer not to. I'm not going to attack juice fasting and talk about how bad it is to take in that many sugars and carbs on an empty stomach or how it can cause ulcers, acid reflux, and attack the stomach lining with all of those acids, etc etc etc. Like water fasting, it must be done properly. It's one thing to say that it can harm your body if done wrong, but it's different to say it definitely will no matter what, which seems to be the stance you are taking.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well if you have never done it how exactly would you know? It's kind of the norm around here when things go really bad you FAST. And if it helps someone personally feel better and feel like they rid of evil, then who is anyone else to knock that. I'm not saying I personally believe or not, but at least its self control.

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well if you have never done it how exactly would you know? It's kind of the norm around here when things go really bad you FAST. And if it helps someone personally feel better and feel like they rid of evil, then who is anyone else to knock that. I'm not saying I personally believe or not, but at least its self control.

I have read about many spiritual benefits to fasting. You definitely get a sense of clarity once the hunger goes away. This can be clouded if you have a lot of toxins in your body, but as they go away you seem to become more keen mentally. And you are right about the self control. Many people have an emotional addiction to eating too much, or for certain unhealthy foods. Fasting can be a good way to break that dependency. It worked for me when I first began fasting 6-7 years ago. The physical hunger from a fast goes away 3-5 days in, but mentally it stays there and you can very easily drift away thinking about tasting food again. The tricky part is over coming those thoughts. My last fast, I couldn't get the idea of chili peppers out of my head for most of it. It really changes your perspective on eating, quite often for the better.

originally posted by: Barcs


Please stop spreading disinfo. I clearly explained this in my last post to you that you seemed to conveniently ignore again. You are confusing starvation with fasting. Please read my post. It will not "certainly" harm your body. It can if not done right under proper supervision. You are assuming it is harmful because you don't understand the difference between water fasting and starvation. It depends on how much fat you have. 30 days is doable and many folks do it without any harm to their bodies.
...

No, you and some other members who claim several weeks + of fasting is good for you, and there is no damage from such extreme starvation are the ones spreading disinformation and lies. I have backed every statement I made about when fasting is beneficial and when it is dangerous.

For those who still have some common sense do not believe the lies that water fasting for weeks + is safe... People, and even children have been forced by their parents or other relatives to water fast and died. Many others have gotten permanent damage to their organs because they did not know, and ignored the warning signs of such prolonged fasting.

...
Long Fasts: Dangers and Drawbacks

The ultimate risk of fasting, of course, is death by starvation; this doesn’t usually happen to people fasting for medical reasons, but taking anything to extremes is perilous. In Ireland in 1981, for example, 10 political prisoners starved themselves to death in a hunger strike against the British government, fasting between 46 and 73 days before they died.

Even fasts of a few weeks or less can have dangerous consequences. Fasting puts two different types of stress on your heart. First, it cannibalizes cardiac muscle for fuel. The human body does everything it can to conserve muscle during a fast, but inevitably some muscle will be sacrificed at the beginning of the fast. After a few days, the body switches over to using fat, but researchers have discovered that protein (muscle) utilization actually increases again later on, even though fat stores are still available. This protein includes the muscle in your heart: weaken this too much, and heart failure will result.

Strict water fasting is also a risk for heart failure because during a fast, the body’s intracellular stores of minerals vital for cardiac function, like magnesium and potassium, are depleted, even though serum levels remain normal. The results of this cardiac muscle loss and mineral deprivation can be tragic. During the 1950s and 60s, fasting was used as an experimental treatment for obesity, and several patients died (many from heart failure). Other reports of people dying during long fasts include more cases of heart failure. More recently, in 2010, a woman in Florida died after 21 days of fasting.

Other fasters die of infectious diseases that they simply don’t have the energy to fight off without adequate nutrition. In 1978, for example, a man named William Carlton died of pneumonia at a fasting center after fasting for 29 days in an attempt to cure his ulcerative colitis. He was 49 years old, and in normal health other than the colitis. Worldwide, infectious diseases are actually the most common cause of death among starving people, because an immune system weakened by malnutrition tends to give in before heart problems start to show. This is particularly common among children who go on (or are forced to go on) long fasts.

Detox is sometimes a necessary evil, but when you’re thinking about the potential dangers of long-term fasting, make sure not to get taken in by fanatical advocates who claim that everything is just another detox symptom. Sometimes it’s actually a symptom of a bigger problem, not just detox, and even rapid detox can be unhealthy in itself.
...

paleoleap.com...


Such long fasts are too dangerous and not necessary when intermittent fasts of 3 days will give you many benefits without the risks to your health.

As a mortician ..... my comment to this conversation is this.

The Extreme fasting bunch are just as bad as the big Pharma drug pushers. Just different sides of the same coin.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
No, you and some other members who claim several weeks + of fasting is good for you, and there is no damage from such extreme starvationt are the ones spreading disinformation and lies. I have backed every statement I made about when fasting is beneficial and when it is dangerous.

I already clearly explained that fasting is not for everybody, and to seek a professional before attempting. You are using the fallacy of equivocation to argue against it. You are claiming that starvation and fasting are the same thing. They are not, please stop using this argument. Nobody said there is no damage from starvation or that you can't starve if you don't eat. But claiming that fasting = starvation is where you are going wrong.

Citing extreme examples of protesters or prisoners fasting does not apply. Chances are they didn't follow the proper guidelines for fasting, they just winged it probably without access to enough water, in a bad environment. Either way it wasn't done via the help of a professional. The single most important thing about a fast is that you monitor your health and do it properly. Citing examples of people doing it improperly leading to problems is an absurd argument. That's like if somebody doesn't turn off the circuit breaker before working on an electric outlet and then electrocutes himself and you say, "See! I told you that working on electric outlets is bad! Nobody should ever work on outlets! You can die!" Well duh. You can also die walking down the street or driving to work. A vast larger percentage of car owners die in car crashes than fasters from fasting, but I don't see you on here arguing that nobody should be driving. People make mistakes and cause accidents. It's usually user error, just like when people fast and ignore the extreme hunger pangs when they return after your fat runs low. Something like that it is very difficult to ignore, but folks do stupid things so what can I say?

For those who still have some common sense do not believe the lies that water fasting for weeks + is safe... People, and even children have been forced by their parents or other relatives to water fast and died. Many others have gotten permanent damage to their organs because they did not know, and ignored the warning signs of such prolonged fasting.

It's safe if you do it properly. I would never fast a child unless he was deathly ill and it was the last hope. But again, that's why you monitor your health during the fast, so that you don't go into starvation during the time. Forcing kids to fast, and you wonder why things go wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of people that fast properly and have positive benefits. The deaths are rare, and usually from not following the right procedures. Fasting to try to cure an ulcer is probably the worst idea I've ever heard.

link.springer.com...-1

Here is a direct link to the scientific paper that your article referenced

It was done on lab rats and not humans so to claim it proves that humans lose more muscle late in fasts is unsubstantiated. That article is very misleading. The research paper even says that the rats lost more muscle DURING STARVATION. We all know that starvation occurs when the body runs out of fat. Well I suspect we all know that now, because I've gone over that half a dozen times now.

originally posted by: Barcs
I already clearly explained that fasting is not for everybody, and to seek a professional before attempting. You are using the fallacy of equivocation to argue against it. You are claiming that starvation and fasting are the same thing.

No I don't think that's the argument. I think the argument is that heart damage can still occur even when fat stores are still available as EU's source stated:

paleoleap.com...

First, it cannibalizes cardiac muscle for fuel. The human body does everything it can to conserve muscle during a fast, but inevitably some muscle will be sacrificed at the beginning of the fast. After a few days, the body switches over to using fat, but researchers have discovered that protein (muscle) utilization actually increases again later on, even though fat stores are still available.

Emphasis mine, and you seem to be disregarding the bolded statement in your "starvation" distinction.

I don't see any way to do a long fast "properly" since there's no easy way to continuously monitor the exact amount of heart tissue being damaged as a result of the fast.

Well, 3 days, came and gone. I have already decided to extend it. I can tell you that water fasting has made me aware of some food allergies that I was not aware of. I wake up in the morning and have zero problems breathing and my eyes do not feel as if they are full of sand. I plan to keep doing this as long as I feel good, and right now I feel great!

I also felt some pain soreness in some of the knuckles in my left finger, long term injuries. I'm not claiming a miracle cure but those fingers have not been experiencing soreness after day 2.

Last night and even the night before i realize that my body doesn't need as much sleep. I'm active and aware for much longer periods of time with a steady energy level.

You were probably getting some inflammation from something you were consuming.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
No I don't think that's the argument. I think the argument is that heart damage can still occur even when fat stores are still available as EU's source stated:



paleoleap.com...

First, it cannibalizes cardiac muscle for fuel. The human body does everything it can to conserve muscle during a fast, but inevitably some muscle will be sacrificed at the beginning of the fast. After a few days, the body switches over to using fat, but researchers have discovered that protein (muscle) utilization actually increases again later on, even though fat stores are still available.

Emphasis mine, and you seem to be disregarding the bolded statement in your "starvation" distinction.

I don't see any way to do a long fast "properly" since there's no easy way to continuously monitor the exact amount of heart tissue being damaged as a result of the fast.

The only basis for the bolded statement in the article was a study on LAB RATS, not humans. Instead of reading an obviously biased article on a paleo diet promotion website, read the actual scientific research paper it refers to. To suggest that indicates that humans can't safely fast is absurd. Why is it that I fast every year, yet my heart is in tip top shape? I don't take my health lightly. Cancer and heart disease runs in the family. My heart, now is healthier than it ever was before I started fasting. I get my physical, blood pressure and heart checked every year to be safe, yet these mysterious heart problems are nowhere to be found.

originally posted by: Barcs
Why is it that I fast every year, yet my heart is in tip top shape?

The fact that you're alive isn't proof your heart is in tip top shape. An autopsy can reveal many things about the condition of a heart and you haven't had one of those.

Also just as different people respond to certain drugs or other treatments differently, they can also respond to fasting differently. two people with the same weight and percent bodyfat could go on a fast together, yet one might experience more heart damage by the end of the fast than the other.

The thing about the heart is, sometimes it doesn't give any early warning signs at all before it fails completely. So people can be fooled into thinking their heart is completely healthy, when in fact it might not be so healthy.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I get all my numbers checked. It's not just that I'm alive. I suppose we can't know everything, but my heart is as healthy as can be determined by professionals. Essentially I agree with you, everybody's different, caution should be used, you should see your doctor before attempting. I just didn't like how the other poster was linking irrelevant topics and using it to bash fasting. She quoted the wiki for the term "Starvation", the term "insomnia" and an article based on fasting lab rats in her justification that fasting is detrimental to long term health. They were complete red herrings and didn't prove anything. Talking about prisoners going on hunger strikes,forcing kids to fast, and showing what happens when you do it wrong, doesn't compare. The rat isn't going to tell the scientists that hunger pangs have returned or how he's feeling about the whole thing each day. One of the keys is listening to your body, so simulating it in rats, an unintelligent rodent does not do it justice. A human can record his feelings, mood, dizziness, nausea, pain etc. A rodent cannot, and also has a vastly different lifespan and metabolism. I know a professional that has fasted thousands of people without incident. I think he's a better judge on human fasting than a few tests on some lab rats.

originally posted by: Barcs


It's safe if you do it properly.

It is not safe for the prolonged periods of time you proclaim it's safe...

Not eating during weeks, as you proclaim is safe, it's already starvation to the extreme. The time that you claim "it's safe for people to starve" their bodies has been already using protein from muscles including from their hearts and not only fat.

originally posted by: Barcs
I would never fast a child unless he was deathly ill and it was the last hope. But again, that's why you monitor your health during the fast, so that you don't go into starvation during the time.

OH really?... so you would proclaim it is safe for a child to starve when they are deathly sick?... You are out of your mind... What would you recommend for children who are already suffering major health problems from starvation?... Starve them more?... Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should children be put on a water fast, not even if they are healthy.

Water fasting is forcing your body to starve, and when you do it for weeks non-stop it is very dangerous and you are taking fasting to the extreme because your body is suffering from malnutrition.

originally posted by: Barcs
Forcing kids to fast, and you wonder why things go wrong. There are thousands upon thousands of people that fast properly and have positive benefits. The deaths are rare, and usually from not following the right procedures. Fasting to try to cure an ulcer is probably the worst idea I've ever heard.

link.springer.com...-1

Here is a direct link to the scientific paper that your article referenced

It was done on lab rats and not humans so to claim it proves that humans lose more muscle late in fasts is unsubstantiated. That article is very misleading. The research paper even says that the rats lost more muscle DURING STARVATION. We all know that starvation occurs when the body runs out of fat. Well I suspect we all know that now, because I've gone over that half a dozen times now.

Death from starvation it's not rare... Every day a lot of people, including children, die from starvation...

There are millions of people in developed countries that suffer from malnutrition. When you force your body to not eat for weeks you are forcing it to starve to the extreme and your body is already suffering malnutrition.

BTW, I am aware that you stated to be taking vitamins and other nutrients intravenously, but for your information a lot of people who are reading your claims probably can't afford to pay for "intravenous" or any other way of getting nutrients and vitamins their bodies need without eating.

Also because these people are undergoing extreme starvation by choice more in depth medical exams will not be provided for free and their insurances will not cover medical exams because those people are choosing freely to starve themselves for prolonged periods.

Only when symptoms of malnutrition become more obvious, as in having to go to emergency if they ever go, will doctors notice what is happening to these people, and then will the doctors request other medical exams which will show malnutrition as the cause for their health problems; and by then their chances are much higher to have permanent damage to organs.

Water fasting is essentially forcing your body to starve, and when you do it for prolonged periods it's not safe in the least.

Yes, there are cases where people have survived extended fasts, but they are playing Russian roulette with their health by doing such prolonged fasting.

Why take such risks to your health when shorter fasts, and then eating nutritious, healthy food gives benefits without putting them at risk? (always check with your doctor before going on a water fast)

The research provided in the OP was 3 day water fasting, not going without eating for weeks at a time which it's not safe.

originally posted by: QuietSpeech
...

Last night and even the night before i realize that my body doesn't need as much sleep. I'm active and aware for much longer periods of time with a steady energy level.

Do you know why you are waking up earlier and not sleeping for 8 hours? Because your brain is giving you more time to search for food.

You might not know it, and you might not feel much hunger, but your body and your brain are reacting and your brain is giving you more time to find food until it becomes too weak to do so.

The longer you go on a strict water fast you will grow weaker. It is not a test from God, and it is not your body giving you a test either. It is a survival response in which your brain is giving you more time to find food.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You haven't got a clue about this subject, you didn't even know what transdermal meant and when I called you out on it you couldn't respond, selective debating at it's finest.
You think you know but even though you have posted TLDR post after TLDR post at least people are seeing through your BS.

Fasting changed my life and no matter how many posts you post you will never change my opinion. I love how you ignore all the positive stuff like the repairing of his old injuries and focus on the 1 part that you can spout your BS.

I hope everyone can see through the stench of your posts and do their own research.
I have posted video after video showing that water fasting under the guidance of an experienced faster is safe enough and certainly a 3 day fast will not harm anyone.
I'm out of this thread so don't bother responding to me because you will probably take a whole page just to respond.