New Gun Bill? Your Neighbor Controls Your Rights

a reply to: verschickter

You need to be careful about assumptions. They lead to embarrassing spots of..well..presumption.

To be realistic? If police show up to my door with a proper order to take my guns...well, they are going to take my guns. I have absolutely no say in the matter at that point, except to decide HOW they take them. With me in custody or not? With my body in a bag or standing on my feet? I'll fight..in court..where fighting matters and it's FAR closer to a level playing field.

You mistake what I said for suggesting I'd fight on the scene..which is as absurd as suggesting someone stand naked before a charging army and defeat them all. Suicide...is the only outcome to that. My life is worth more than a few pieces of iron and wood which I can (and wouldn't even have to) replace later.

I said I'd have a bad reaction. I would too... If it came as a criminal order, I'd submit after being handed a copy to review and fully understand. If it's a civil order like this would be? Oh..they're still getting my guns. I have no delusions about that. I just won't be NEARLY as nice and docile while they go about it.. We'll all end that day positive of one thing. Getting my guns was far more hassle than it was worth to accomplish.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I fully support taking any reasonable measures to protect each other

Reasonable?

Any gun control 'bill' or law is unreasonable.

Simply because we already have a preexisting law that says we can't murder each other.

Since that LAW is already being broken I missed the part where further law to the tune of thousands is 'reasonable'.

All laws do not prevent 'crime' they only punish after the fact.

I'd think with my rabid, foaming at the mouth history of gun support, you would understand that I don't find any further gun laws to be "reasonable". I really don't find any past ones to be reasonable.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: jude11

Disgusting.

Using divisiveness, fear, paranoia.

Perfect ingredients for a progressive agenda!

right...maybe you can move some psychopaths next door to you and give them some of your guns...you know, just to show everyone that you are not progressive, paranoid, fearful, or disgusting...lead by example my man, go for it...oh, and be sure to report back here how you and your new neighbors are getting along.

a reply to: jimmyx

your right to safety is

- contingent on your own ability to secure it (as any other right is)
- irrelevant until you actually have a threat. "What if" about your neighbors isn't a threat.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
That´s sane thinking but don´t you agree it, that would be far better to not let it come to the point where they can come to you legally? Typing all those useless words is the same as sitting in a bar and complaining but never do anything.
Well, why won´t you be nearly as nice and doctile to the people that would come to size your weapons? If it´s legally like you said, they´re just doing their job. That´s kind of like being not nice to the guy at mcdonalds just because he won´t take that 100€ bill because of company rules or not being nice because they did not fight against that order.

See my point? If all those people complaining and the "from my dead cold hands" used their time to write and vote their representatives, I´m sure it would do more good then all those posts. Please don´t take this as a personal attack, it´s just how I see it.

They will come for your weapons sooner or later. They will find a reason unless you -the people- do something against it. Typing words on an internet forum is not on that list.

a reply to: verschickter

I see what you're saying and if I'm reading you right, then I'd agree with you on doing something about the circumstances which lead to that last tragic stage that we'd find ourselves facing. When police come, intending to take what should never BE open to taking on the basis we're worried about, the time to change things is long past.

In my own efforts? Well.. I'm not doing much these days, I have to admit. Pretty busy...but, University is about reaching a position in life where I CAN do something and can make a difference. Position means everything for that, right? Gotta get positioned so opinion carries more influence than talking to one's self in the bathroom mirror.

In terms of those 'from my cold dead hands' folks, as you describe it here, I suppose everyone has a right to their opinions. Free nation and all that. However, I will say nothing annoys me more than to hear a "People's RIGHTS!" fighter turn around and say 'Don't Vote! It's stupid!'. I'd be mad, but the ignorance tempers that with humor, so annoyance is all I can manage anymore. Folks scream about something and then insure, by apathy, their worst fears come true by default.

originally posted by: verschickter
Typing all those useless words is the same as sitting in a bar and complaining but never do anything.

And what makes you think none of us are already vigorously petitioning our elected representatives?

originally posted by: six67seven
This type of talk is only ongoing because people like Feinstein dont have a clue how to build a viable system which accurately qualifies citizens to own firearms. They've destroyed the minds of millions of people (soldiers) and can't keep track of the millions on SSRIs/SNRIs/opiates due to doctors shoveling out big pharmas mind-altering poison instead of trying to actually rid people of mental illness, so what they try to do is scare the hell out of everyone that does NOT own a firearm.

Its completely lazy, 100% transparent and guaranteed to fail as long as people know the facts.

You know what qualifies me to own firearms?
I am a free man
Thats all the freaking qualification I need.

This is the fundemental position that seperates this country. Are you free or do you belong to the goverment.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I did not deny anyone´s opinion, but is this (from my dead cold hands) really an opinion?
Apathy is a nice description of the circumstances

@Augustus
And what makes you think I said none of "you" did not already vigorously petitioning your elected representatives? Where is that word "none" in any of my posts? And is it really my sentence that brought you out of the bush or you thinking I am a "gun-hater"? If so, I assure that you are wrong. I live in Germany and I posses two handguns and two rifles. We do really good here without anyone able to walk into a store and just buy one, wait several days and pick it up. But that´s another topic.

Edit: To make it clear you have to go through regular actual training 12/18months before you can have one here. This reduces accidents and secures proper handling and storage.

originally posted by: verschickter
And what makes you think I said none of "you" did not already vigorously petitioning your elected representatives?

Stop playing semantics, the implication on your part is that we were wasting our time by posting our sentiments online.

I cannot speak for the others here but I offer my opinion on firearms whenever the topic comes up either online or in person. Additionally, I make my sentiment known politically by communicating with my representatives and being a member of groups that advocate a similar stance as my own.

And is it really my sentence that brought you out of the bush or you thinking I am a "gun-hater"?

It has nothing to do with being a 'gun-hater' and more to do with not minimizing any advocacy for firearms freedom, whether it be online or off.

a reply to: jude11

I would like to create a NEW NATIONAL SECURITY CLEARANCE way above Q-sci and way above Above Top Secret.

NFWTi will be the new name.

"No Fkin Way Thats insane"

I don't see any problem with taking responsibility to protect your rights. Don't give any indication that you may do something criminal, then your neighbor won't call the police and they take your right to posses. Pretty simple.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You are right. That´s what you want to hear

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
This is how I think gun ownership is being reduced.

"My cousin went to see the doctor for a rash and was randomly asked how he felt about gun ownership..

I agree the system could use some changes but I don't believe that public safety is the agenda, at least not entirely. There are multiple agendas at play."

The doctors are being increasingly feeling pressure to make these type inquires. Remember that anything you say to a doctor is liable to end up in some federal database. They've done away with anything resembling doctor/patient privacy. Also remember, your under no obligation to provide any information about what I call "off topic" questions. Furthermore, if you find yourself being pressured, remember you're under no obligation to be truthful. With the Federalization of medical care, the doctors are now operating as members of the State run medical system.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

To be realistic? If police show up to my door with a proper order to take my guns...well, they are going to take my guns. I have absolutely no say in the matter at that point

We sure do have a say in the matter as that is a 4th amendment VIOLATION.

a reply to: jude11

Total promotion of the snitch state type government. If it passes, which I doubt, it'll be even more important to be extremely important to self-censor in public and to be very careful about who you associate or give any valid information to.

a reply to: TonyS

I agree it does suggest a direction towards a snitch type state. But neighbors snitch on each other all the time. From loud music to tall trees and hedges and parking for example. But firearms are much more serious than anything I just mentioned.

Wasn't a German exchange student killed by a neighbor for walking through his yard? I think if the neighborhood disapproved of this man prior to the shooting, the death could have been avoided if this new law was in place?

There can be numerous neighborhoods that are safe but contain the one wacko that has a clean record, that the neighborhood is clearly afraid of. I don't see a problem with making things safer.

Whatever. Law abiding citizens who are criminally controlled by their government will just purchase one illegally and then not tell anyone. That's what they're forcing us to do....because one way or another Americans will keep their guns illegally or legally. We know what the government is trying to do and I bet many will be surprised when they bang down someone's door thinking that all guns have been confiscated. The government is not as bright as they would have us think. In fact the ones we see all the time Feinstein, Clinton, that other ditsy woman with the big quimsical eyes...her name is not important. They are all just like gnats that you just cant seem to swat away to get out of your face. So annoying, they are.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: TonyS

I agree it does suggest a direction towards a snitch type state. But neighbors snitch on each other all the time. From loud music to tall trees and hedges and parking for example. But firearms are much more serious than anything I just mentioned.

Wasn't a German exchange student killed by a neighbor for walking through his yard? I think if the neighborhood disapproved of this man prior to the shooting, the death could have been avoided if this new law was in place?

There can be numerous neighborhoods that are safe but contain the one wacko that has a clean record, that the neighborhood is clearly afraid of. I don't see a problem with making things safer.

I bet he won't walk through his yard again....That was trespassing and they have that law in place for a reason....probably so you don't carelessly walk on someone else's property and get shot.

a reply to: neo96

Okay, you can do two things at the point cops are on your porch with a legal and valid order...from that court which defines the 4th amendment in practical terms.

#1. You can follow the lawful order and raise hell like sport in the courts starting the day after, and until you drop dead of old age or get it settled. One of the two. Judges can be just as short tempered about liberties with rights as we can..and that does bring results. I bring stories about it regularly to post about and where courts bring winning examples for rights as well as the bad stuff.

#2. You can fight with the cops and try and prevent the warrant or court order from being served. This is...your choice. I won't say right. I'll say choice. The most likely end result of that is great injury or death. At the very least, it will be a criminal case looking at time to do over resisting. That delays #1, and might even jeopardize it entirely after becoming a mixed wrong situation.

I'll choose #1 and personally DO consider that the only option reasonable to take if faced with law enforcement and a valid order. It is what it is and there'll be a fight alright, but right there isn't the moment for it, IMO. Not that way.