Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs 'strong and united' UK

If I lived in Scotland I would vote Yes.
Not because of anti-English sentiment or because I'm nationalistic.
Having listened to the yes campaign and them wanting to keep free healthcare, free education, free prescriptions and so on, they would get my vote.

After four or five years of conservatives and reading what the conservatives did to manufacturing and what they are doing now to the poorest and most vulnerable in England, I can't blame the Scottish people for wanting to escape and govern themselves.
They speak of true socialist values and from what I read - it may not be true I have no idea - something like 50% of people are employed by the state and Scotland also has lots of oil and resources to sustain their independence and growth.

I guess it is a tough decision but I would for sure break away.

I think, as voting day encroaches, the fight is going to get very dirty. You just have to look at all the big guns involved. The likes of Brown, Darling, Alexander, Campbell. I am assuming that their long serving representation of their current constituencies would be down the tubes if it were a decisive 'yes' vote come the declaration date? They would all effectively be unemployed? It's all very complicated. Can anyone enlighten please?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I'll never forget what these people did to Scotland..(poll tax a year before anywhere else in the UK) and if we vote No on Sept 18th they will do it again...well, they gotta keep those voters down south happy and in work.

The Poll Tax was how many years ago?
And I think you'll find that it was rioters from all over the UK that put a stop to that!

I think you will find it was the Anti-Poll Tax campaign which put a stop to that. A movement which was born in Scotland and had a year to educate the victims further south.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Maybe the questions are not worthy of answers....

Oh, I see...... maybe you simply haven't got any reasoned answers free from biased political rhetoric.

You can't even give a straight answer on why you believe J.K. Rowling has no right whatsoever to donate her own money to the No campaign whereas the Weir's are entitled to donate their money to the Yes campaign.

Or maybe you are just plain scared to reveal YOUR personal motivations.

Most members here on ATS who are in favour of Scottish independence at least give reasoned and considered explanations why they feel they way they do and even if I disagree with them I certainly respect their opinions.....you seem to evade that at every opportunity and have repeatedly offered up blatant misrepresentations whilst presenting absolutely nothing of real substance.

Man up and say what you really feel.

originally posted by: ScottG30
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Something for all our American friends and the NO Voters who jumped on the Obama bandwagon when he commented recently

Obama represents a country who fought a war AGAINST Britain to secure its own INDEPENDENCE and Im sure many of you celebrate it every 4th July
So for President Obama to advise another country to reject its own independence that is being voted on without the need for violence or warfare is utter hypocrisy

Obama is only interested in Trident Nuclear missiles that are kept just over a mile from my flat

Id be very interested to hear all your opinions on this ?

The US "mainstream media" has been controlled by the CIA for decades.
educationforum.ipbhost.com...
Currently the US media (CIA) does not discuss the issue, so probably most Americans are not aware of the vote that is coming. Obama probably was freelancing. Obama probably doesn't even know what a Trident submarine is. If he does not mention the issue again we can be certain his handlers reigned him in. Clearly the US oligarchs should not be meddling in British affairs, but these same oligarchs love to intervene everywhere else in the world.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Maybe the questions are not worthy of answers....

Oh, I see...... maybe you simply haven't got any reasoned answers free from biased political rhetoric.

You can't even give a straight answer on why you believe J.K. Rowling has no right whatsoever to donate her own money to the No campaign whereas the Weir's are entitled to donate their money to the Yes campaign.

Or maybe you are just plain scared to reveal YOUR personal motivations.

Most members here on ATS who are in favour of Scottish independence at least give reasoned and considered explanations why they feel they way they do and even if I disagree with them I certainly respect their opinions.....you seem to evade that at every opportunity and have repeatedly offered up blatant misrepresentations whilst presenting absolutely nothing of real substance.

Man up and say what you really feel.

Blah, Blah, Blah...Wind and Pish.
Jk Rowling can do whatever she wants with her wealth...she could even nip into her next door neighbour Alister Darling and slip him a few bob if she so wishes. Has JK got a Book coming out this week....perfect timing or maybe just a coincidence.

The reason i dont want to answer any of your questions is because i dont answer questions to stalkers...

Did you reply to my posts with the links> "Truth about oil" or "BBC Law Breaking" or "Deary me" or west coast oil, oh dear, more lovely stuff or The Alien act 1705, etc, etc.....?????
If it's good for you to gloss over my posts and pick and choose your replies, i can choose to gloss over any post of my choosing.
Jog on.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

I hardly think anything I've done could be remotely likened to 'stalking' - merely posting my opinions on a subject on an open forum.
Unfortunately you don't seem to have got the grasp of the idea - discussing and debating in a reasoned, passionate yet respectful manner.
It tends to be at least a two way process.
You have consistently refused to answer perfectly legitimate questions that have been asked directly at you.

Re-read the thread and I'm sure you'll see exactly what I mean.

I've not 'glossed over your posts' - I'm merely awaiting a reply from you before entering into reasoned debate - something you appear not to want to engage in.

Jog on?
FFS, another wannabe.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I hardly think anything I've done could be remotely likened to 'stalking' - merely posting my opinions on a subject on an open forum.
Unfortunately you don't seem to have got the grasp of the idea - discussing and debating in a reasoned, passionate yet respectful manner.
It tends to be at least a two way process.
You have consistently refused to answer perfectly legitimate questions that have been asked directly at you.

Re-read the thread and I'm sure you'll see exactly what I mean.

I've not 'glossed over your posts' - I'm merely awaiting a reply from you before entering into reasoned debate - something you appear not to want to engage in.

Jog on?
FFS, another wannabe.

Sometimes people won't answer questions, because the answer is too painful for them.
They just avoid the issue as a defence mechanism.

Is there a general "YES/NO" thread or is this it?

a reply to: blupblup

Hi, this one was started in the hope the mods might give us a Poll......

Poll thread

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel



OK cool, I didn't mean a vote but just a general discussion of the upcoming referendum and people's arguments for and against.

In what are believed to have been the first physical blows of the debate on Scotland’s future, frail ­nationalist campaigner James McMillan, 80, was sent spinning to the ground by the woman – after she wrestled a banner supporting a Yes vote from him.

And So it Begins.

Independence Campaigner 80 Attacked

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Doesn't matter which side of the fence anyone is on that is indefensible - and so is making political gain out of it.

I sincerely hope they catch whoever did this and they receive the maximum penalty possible.....although it'd be far more fitting if she were given a bit of good old fashioned 'street justice'.

She grabbed hold of my placard and then pushed me over. As I lay on the ground I looked up at her and she had a look on her face like, "My God, what have I done?"

Not that I am trying to make any excuses at all for the woman, but it seems she saw red.
Anyway, it was despicable and appalling behaviour. If Scotland get the YES vote, I think she would be wise to move down south.

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
In what are believed to have been the first physical blows of the debate on Scotland’s future, frail ­nationalist campaigner James McMillan, 80, was sent spinning to the ground by the woman – after she wrestled a banner supporting a Yes vote from him.

And So it Begins.

Independence Campaigner 80 Attacked

Still no mention of it in todays main papers or the BBC, but wait...JK rowling is more news worthy.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Tell me your not naive enough to think our independence will be gained without blood being spilled?

Change has always required or involved blood and pain to some degree or another, thats human nature and us Scots are no different i'm afraid.

Freedom always has its price. And that's because it's simply an illusion!

a reply to: andy06shake

With respect, I have to disagree. Canada gained it's independence by being oh-so-typically Canadian: We asked politely.

My roots are 100% Scottish, but I am not one of those that thinks that gives me the right to speak up on issues of Scottish independence. But as an owner of 83 acres on the south shore of Moray Firth I have my own selfish views.

Regardless of any of that, I dont want to see any blood shed. And other than the occasional scuffle, it wont.

a reply to: Leonidas

"With respect, I have to disagree. Canada gained it's independence by being oh-so-typically Canadian: We asked politely."

With respect, Canada is not and never has been physically connected to England in the same manner as Scotland, with all the pros and cons that come with such geographical location.

Also with respect, you own land in this fair nation, I actually have to live and deal with the outcome of this YES or No vote!

I also do not wish to see blood being spilled, but human nature has its own agenda, and change, just like revolution is seldom bloodless and never a pretty sight in the here and now!

a reply to: andy06shake

I totally understand that I am not there, and I take your point that Canada has the luxury of an ocean on three of it's borders. My point was that independence has not always come at the end of a gun. But I take your point that it most often does. I made the point that even though I own land there, I dont think that gives me a say in the countries independence. However I do have my own opinion on the matter. That opinion is only that, my opinion as I said above.

However, I am almost positive that Scottish independence - or not - will not resort to wholesale violence.

a reply to: Leonidas

"However, I am almost positive that Scottish independence - or not - will not resort to wholesale violence."

I never said it will resort to wholesale violence, just that our independence will not come without some measure of blood being spilled, metaphorically, physically, financially or otherwise.

Keep in mind, somebody, generally the poor these days, always have to lose something for others to gain.