If your Anti Bergdhal return, your also anti-innocent until proven guilty in court of law.

I'm ok with working to get him back, I'm not ok with the Pres. declaring that we don't leave men behind when we do.

a reply to: eriktheawful I get your point. I always have even though it is a cover up of the truth. I am reminded of the free speech cage areas by your post here. You had a but in your reply so that in itself is evidence of some right being infringed upon. How about the right to quit your job? Afterall that is what this whole bergdoll thing is about. Yes if you search out proper times and areas you can feel for a moment as if you still have rights and yes this is becoming the norm for most americans too because are rights are being stripped away. Perhaps you would be more honest to say that you still have the same rights but they can only be expressed at proper times and under proper conditions. That is not the same freedom you had before. Maybe you don't see the link between rights and freedom that serving removes from ones life.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: eriktheawful I get your point. I always have even though it is a cover up of the truth. I am reminded of the free speech cage areas by your post here. You had a but in your reply so that in itself is evidence of some right being infringed upon. How about the right to quit your job? Afterall that is what this whole bergdoll thing is about. Yes if you search out proper times and areas you can feel for a moment as if you still have rights and yes this is becoming the norm for most americans too because are rights are being stripped away. Perhaps you would be more honest to say that you still have the same rights but they can only be expressed at proper times and under proper conditions. That is not the same freedom you had before. Maybe you don't see the link between rights and freedom that serving removes from ones life.

Okay, understand there is no constitutional right to "quit your job" here in the US. However, yes, most people can simply walk off from their job.

The military on the other hand is not one of those job that you can do that very easily. Here is why:

First, you sign a legal binding contract with the US government, agreeing to server for a certain amount of time (the amount of time varies depending on your branch and what it is you are doing). The US government reserves the right to remove you from the military (for a variety of reasons ranging from medical problems to a host of other reasons).

There are many ways to get your contract removed:

1) refuse to sign the contract in the first place.
2) refuse to swear the oath to uphold the constitution of the US.
3) Fail the physical readiness tests while in boot camp.
4) Simply refuse to obey orders while in boot camp.
5) State that you have lied about something in your background during enlistment while in boot camp or just after.

The first 2 will make it to where you never go into the military. The next 3 will have you simply receive a "Entry Level Discharge", meaning nothing wrong, but that you are simply not right for the military.

Once you finish boot camp and training after that, it becomes a lot harder to get out, without it being something that you get in trouble with.
You can still get yourself thrown out by constantly being late, doing horrible work, refusing to shave, refusing to get a hair cut. Those things will get you in trouble, but mostly it's a slap on the wrist, and if you keep doing them, most commanding officers will simply just throw you out on a OTH (Other Than Honorable Discharge).

You could do something a lot more serious (walk up to your CO and punch him in the face), but you'll find yourself locked up for quite a long time, and then receive a DD (Dishonorable Discharge), and you don't want that.

You could claim medical problems, and if you really do have them, you could end up with a Medical Discharge. If it's service related, you can be owed by the US government due to that. But becareful about faking it. If you're caught faking it, you can be charged with Malingering.

The main reason you can not just "walk off and quit" is because of the contract you signed when you joined: you agreed to be bound by the UCMJ, and that if you violate any of the articles in the UCMJ, you agree that the US military can charge you and convict you (if found guilty) in a military court of law.

Nothing is hidden. This is all in black in white in your contract that you sign.

As for the "but" in free speech: it's simple again.

The uniform that you wear in the US military is a symbol. While you wear that uniform, you are representing the US military, and specifically the branch you are serving in.
The US military is suppose to remain apolitical. They are to remain loyal to the US government, it's people and the constitution of the US.
But the military is not allowed to "pick sides" (IE become loyal to one political party).

Military members can have whatever political belief they want. However, you are not allowed to use your uniform, a symbol of that branch, to represent your branch at political party functions.

When you are serving in the military you are: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine. You directly represent the US government and it's people.....regardless of your political beliefs.
You are not Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green Party, etc, etc, while you are wearing that uniform and on duty.

Now, once you are on leave, liberty, etc, you are free to do what you want. You can go to a political rally (in your civilian clothes), you can pass out fliers (again, in your civilian clothes....and NOT on the base or a ship). You can go to conventions all you want. You can write an editorial letter (so long as you state your opinion is your own and NOT the opinion or views of the branch of military you are serving in......just like the mods on here have to do).

Again: the reason you are not suppose to wear your uniform to those events has nothing to do with refusing your first amendment rights. It has to do with making sure you are not representing the US military and a political party's rally is all.

I know it might seem like being in the military, you loose your rights, but you really don't. What you really do is agree to be held much more accountable for your actions.

And being that the US military is a all volunteer force.......know what you are getting into before you sign on the dotted line. The military life is not for everyone (I really enjoyed my time in the US Navy, but I knew those who were miserable.....simply because you get out of it what you put in to it).

Is the punishment for desertion that your country leaves you in the hands of the enemy as a POW?
If that's in UCMJ or other law somewhere then I'll change my mind on this subject.

what if he had PTSD or other mental breakdown? You still want him punished?

We need to know all the facts before abandoning our soldiers. Don't get me wrong though. If he is guilty I certainly want him punished.


a reply to: StoutBroux