Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

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The reason why a lot of small business owners are seeming to struggle, is because they are busting their asses to get to the next level.
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They bust their ass because they MUST in a super-competitive world, because competitor X might manufacture in effing CHINA paying their employees $1/hour or less...which allows them to offer goods cheaper than you can because you do NOT outsource your manufacturing to China (or Timbuktu or Swasiland).

And here the circle closes again.....realize that YOUR hardships as a small business are NOT necessarily because you pay wages to your employees, your hardships as a business are the direct result of unregulated capitalism where anyone (including your competitor) can do whatever they want for maximum profit where you have to ADAPT to stay competitive. (Eg you'd need to lower your prices even if you actually cannot afford to).

If Walmart can sell something for 40% less than you can, guess WHO will ultimately "win"?

And why can Walmart sell something for 40% less than you can? Yes you guessed right, because they pay their employees s***, for instance, that's why!

a reply to: ldyserenity
You would be surprised though. Many construction crews do hire for crap wages, and hire illegals under the table for those crap wages to boot. I always did things the right way myself, and I went under, the underhanded companies survived. Go figure. I have been buddies with people in other businesses, mostly due to doing work at their houses.

One dude, he built his business from the ground up. He basically imported fine materials from europe, and made fancy business suits. Eventually bigtime names like Armani(probably butchered the spelling), Guccii(probably butchered the spelling) etc were buying his suits. When I met him, he was already a multi-millionaire. He had the same sort of mentality as me really. Even the guys doing crap jobs like working his warehouse where paid well.

You pay and treat employees well, you get loyal employees in return. Most businesses nowadays would rather have a revolving door of low-paid crap employees, than loyal employees. It's ass backwards if you ask me. You have to keep training new employees all the time, having to weed out the jerks etc. Seems more cost effective to me, to pay people well, and if they do what they are supposed to do, then stick with them. Since you are paying and treating them well in return, less of a worry they are just going to up and quit on you.

Then these days, it's not an employee market, which is done on purpose if you ask me..... For every one crap paying, hellhole of a job that opens up, there are hundreds in line fighting for it.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed
I agree, I am speaking from a construction point of view, because that is what I know best. Things like NAFTA and illegal immigrants coming from hellhole countries are killing us. People that are used to packing in 20 to an APT, and making a quarter an hour, are coming and making a few bucks an hour living the same way. To them it's wonderful I suppose. Outsourcing is also killing us. What to do about it?

In order to compete with the cut-throat sociopaths and make it, you have to become one. I am unwilling to do that. If I was I might be a very wealthy man right now. I could have hired many ex cons for peanuts, have paid off my house years early, sold it, and have gone to college to be a shrink like my big plan was.

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed
I am merely pointing out about the nature of running a business. People tend to forget those small details when it comes to doing such, or the actual costs of such. While yes Joe average worker has the same problems, the reality is that the average worker did not set himself up to take a risk. He did not leverage everything to have a business, nor take chances, or the responsibility for such.

In fact most owners of small businesses, do have disadvantages, they work longer, often forgoing things like vacations, to ensure that their business runs and keeps running.

While I do agree that there should be a raise of the min wage, but make it more gradual and make it equal across the state, while looking at other areas. Do you honestly think that all of those employees are going to be better off when they finally do get their 15 dollars an hour? Personally, the answer is no, it will not change their lot and they are going to find that what this was designed to do, is going to make their lives much harder.

So yes, they will have the income to pay their bills, but at the same time, the amount of disposable income will decrease, and then there is the sticker shock.

But right now, this is all speculation, as this law still have to survive the lawsuits, at which at any point it can be halted if not cancelled by the legal system.

We can only hope that this is not going to create another New York or far worse, Detroit.

a reply to: cloaked4u

Hey cloaked, just wanted to say that I fully agree with you. I am living the life you described and it is not fun!

I am only able to stay afloat living alone on my 13/h paycheck outside Seattle by sacrificing heavily and I live in a crummy suburb.

The only thing i would add is that people fail to realize they are reaping the benefits of the sweat of low wage earners. Just like how sweat shops keep the price of a new pair of Nikes down, these low wage workers are suffering through poverty in order provide people with expendable income cheap product.

Hopefully someday humanity will pull it's head out of its nether region, but until that day it seems greed and materialism are king.

DC

a reply to: Mamatus

I already run my business with fairly narrow margins. Should I have to pay my people more than I do I promise I will raise my prices to the consumer.

I pay my guys nearly 20.00 an hour for a four hour morning.

Um, you wouldn't have to pay them any more, after you backpedaled and changed your tune and for some reason then explained you pay them pretty damn good wages, and shower them with all kinds of gifts and such. So what are you complaining about? If you operate on a "very slim margin" but can afford to do all this for your employees, why can't bigger businesses? Going by your posts, minimum wage could be $20 an hour and the world would still be peachy.

For the record though, I make less than 15, my job is considered "unskilled", (I take care of all shipping and receiving and I would bet a shiny silver dollar everyone on here pissing and moaning about this couldn't do because there's actual physical labor involved) I disagree with this move. Wages SHOULD be fine how they are, if the oil companies would stop their price gouging and raping us at the pump, everything would be more affordable. THAT is the real issue IMHO. My Grandfather pumped gas for a living and raised a family of 5 on it. It should still be that way

a reply to: xDeadcowx
Sweatshops are not keeping the prices down, they are keeping the profits up. Big difference. It costs like 5 bucks to pay a 10 year old to make your nikes, yet it costs you 120 bucks to wear them.

a reply to: mymymy
I did shipping and receiving in Macy's one year, I can attest to that. People that call jobs unskilled are idiots if you ask me. Every job takes a skill, just "unskilled" jobs take skills you can only gain by doing them, not by paying out the nose for a piece of paper at a college or university.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: ldyserenity
You would be surprised though. Many construction crews do hire for crap wages, and hire illegals under the table for those crap wages to boot. I always did things the right way myself,

That's true, but for the purpose of this thread I was talking every retail business, fast food business, restaurants, not builders, masons, etc. Most illegals I've seen when I worked at WalMart they had fat wads of cash more than I'd see working a month at WalMart, they were builders(I asked) and they pulled out access (welfare/fs) cards!!! They certainly weren't paid minimum wage, bit probably slightly lower than one of your guys.

ETA: I'm not meaning small business either, I mean about where posters talk about " franchise owners" particularly and WalMart, etc.

a reply to: TKDRL

Thank you and I agree, I've noticed that the most people that complain are the ones that get paid to take the credit for the work of those they call "underlings". At least where I work those in management are intelligent enough, just have no common sense, and you just can't buy that like you can "intelligence"

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Do you honestly think that all of those employees are going to be better off when they finally do get their 15 dollars an hour?
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No, alone for the fact that this $15 "minimum wage" is planned for 2021 (!) when those $15 won't be more worth than today's $8 or $9 anyway.

originally posted by: cloaked4u
A cheap apartment in seattle will cost u $1,000. dollars and it's a dump. A complete rip off, i would rather live in a camping tent than pay that outrageous feeee. With this in mind, $15. dollars an hour= 600 a week minus-state,local,federal,health, for a total of 440. a week and this does not include minus your 401 K. Now lets minus our monthly car insurance of a low $70. now u have 370. Now lets minus the gas to go to work. Lets say a small 8 miles to work a day and back = 16 miles. times 5 days a week = 80 miles a week. divided by 32 miles per gallon = 2.5 gallons a wk at 4 per gallon seattle price. Cost 10 dollars a wk. now you have $360. Minus a phone bill, you need a phone for emergncy, to call work,to do buisness , other transactions a necesity. Well thats $85 dollars a month. divided by 4 =21.25 . now u have $339 a week. You need to eat every week and at a very low cost of $50. a week to live off of. Now u have 289. a week. That equals to $1156. MINUS RENT 1,000 which gives u $156 dollars a MONTH. to pay your electric BILL which runs usually 80 a month. 156-80=76. Now U HAVE a WOPPING $76 dollars in your pocket a month. to pay for nesessities like toilet paper, dish soap,cloths soap,hair soap,body soap to wash your nasty azzzz clean, so u can show up for WORK smelling like a rose for a lousy $15 dollars an hour. Better borrow some money from ur friend in the future to put cloths on your back. I'll see you at the GOOD WILL store , you BUM. Cain't even afford a tooth brush or toothpaste your breath stinks. Your cloths need a wash, you smell. Gee, for 15 an hour, hard worker, driving your rusty junkard car, you sure get alot of flack. I KNOW, SOCIETY MADE ME THIS WAY.

what 15 an hour gets you today in this world on 6-6-2014. how sad.

a reply to: ldyserenity
Illegals don't pay income taxes, that is one of the biggest advantage they have. As an owner of a business that hires illegals, they are paying the other things like workmans comp and liability insurance on 4 workers, while they really have a crew of 12. It's all a racket, I wish I could just turn my humanity off sometimes and become one of them and live the easy life. Then I remember being compassionate and empathetic is a big part of who I am.

a reply to: xDeadcowx

I use to live in bremerton WA and commuted via the ferry to seattle. I know the area well. I liked the smell of pine trees and the country away from seattle area, but it rains alot. 15 dollars an hour back then, would of been fine in the 1980's not now. In 1992 a shipyard worker made about 18 to 25 an hour depending on what his or her trade was. I worked as a set up man for almost 10 years until the buisness went over seas. Back then, 21.79 hr. was ok. pay and went up to 35 an hour top scale. making parts for microsoft. Back then, the company that i worked for hired temps. at 14 dollars an hour. to trim and assemble parts. Since i lost my job and it went overseas i have worked at places for 15 an hour and it sucks to pay all the bills and live alone. 15 dollars an hour is a joke these days. Mcdonalds should pay it's employees a bit more than this. People don't see it, but inflation has skyrocketed. wish u the best.

originally posted by: cloaked4u
Just face the FACTS: Rent will ALWAYS go UP. Your bills every year, after year will ALWAYS GO UP. Your food costs will ALWAYS GO UP. Did u pay for food,gas,clothing,housing,rent,bills the same amount back in 1950's ? NO, so what makes u think things are going to change ?? The debt will ALWAYS GO UP. In order for buisness to thrive a sucker working for low pay must exist and the products they sell must make a high profit to pay for the companies bills and wages of all the employees. SO, if the materials go up, then so does the cost of the products of every buisness. Meaning YOU PAY MORE to get said products, or the buisnessman goes out of buisnesss. SO suck it up. You are ALWAYS going to be used so the whole of the company makes more to afford the life they want to live.

Buisness will continue to go overseas. WHY? Because they don't have to pay health insurance, building insurance,federal,state, or local taxes, higher wages, less gas and shipping prices, costs less to train employees, employees get less raises, and no inspectors to charge U outrageous fines for violations, Cutting corners on safety issues saves money and materials cost way less. It's a NO BRAINER to go overseas. This is why, WE HAVE BEEN LET GO TO A CHEAPER WORK AREA.

a reply to: TKDRL

And if they had to pay the sweatshop workers living wages, do you think they would take it out of their profit, or increase the price?

Sweat shops keep prices down.

ETA: I am not disagreeing that sweatshops help increase profits, they do, but they keep the price point down as well.

a reply to: xDeadcowx
If they had to pay third world sweatshop workers a living wage, they wouldn't bother putting up their factories there. Also if they taxed the imports like they should, outsourcing would be a nonissue. Pay americans a decent wage, who actually buy their products, or pay the same for people that are more likely to not buy their products. Simple answer.

I don't get what crack these people are smoking, if most people are just scraping by if they are lucky, then who the hell is gonna buy their stuff? Are they planning on passing more bills that force buying like obamacare? Is it going to be manditory to buy trinkets in the near future, whether you can afford it or not? I don't understand it at all.

Our costs are not down. They have been going up and up forever I assume. In my lifetime, shoes of the topend used to cost around 60 bucks. Now they are double or more. A namebrand pair of jeans cost me 25, they are about double or more, and last 1/4 they used to. Even though in the beginning, it was mostly american factories making it, now they pay third world people less, and charge at least double. How is that keeping prices down?

Everything is ridiculous. When I first started driving legally, it cost me 20 bucks to fill the tank of a huge minivan. Last time I filled my car up, it cost me over 100. Smaller gas tank and all. My tank of a suburban, cost damn near 200 to fill last time, a tiny bit bigger than the minivan tank, almost a whole decimal point more. It's insanity. The world is sliding into insanity, and people wonder why there are people flying off the deep end.

originally posted by: Cauliflower
quote]
Maybe some businesses in Seattle like Walmart will absorb the 7% wage increase cut back hours etc. The cost of doing business will not rise 7% for most companies, there is a lot more to overhead than just the minimum wage payments so local prices may only rise 3% instead of 2%. Thats not enough to justify driving out of town very far to take advantage of the competition. In a few years it will be interesting to see what effect this will have on neighboring towns.

Actually many many people who work in Seattle live in the suburbs and towns outside of the Seattle area. I have friends who live in Renton and work in Seattle and many of their friends in Renton do as well. Same for Bellvue, Kirkland, Mercer Island etc. I bet the majority of people who work in Seattle live outside of Seattle. It costs a fortune to live in Seattle.

So my point being, if Walmarts in Seattle charges higher rates for it's products or adds an extra fee, people will just drive 15-20 miles in any direction and reach several cities that will be cheaper.....maybe. But if those Walmarts, say Renton area, raise their prices to match those inside of Seattle, the lower wage earners in Renton will be forced to pay higher prices, which are above the normal price increases.

Here are all the cities within 15 miles of Seattle:

a reply to: TKDRL

I don't get what crack these people are smoking, if most people are just scraping by if they are lucky, then who the hell is gonna buy their stuff?

Apparently not many people at all, at least according to this article I read today. You know things are REALLY bad when people cannot even afford to shop at Wal-Mart anymore.

Revenue at established Wal-Mart stores in the U.S. has declined for five consecutive quarters. The number of customers has also fallen six quarters in a row at the division, which accounts for 60 percent of the company's total sales.

Like many other retailers that cater to working-class Americans, Wal-Mart has been hurt by an uneven economic recovery that has benefited well-heeled shoppers more than those in the lower-income rungs. Moreover, shoppers are increasingly looking for lower prices at online rivals like Amazon.com and at dollar chains and pharmacies.

Wal-Mart CEO: speed up pace of change

a reply to: ldyserenity
I'm not going to do your homework for you. Senate bill S520C was signed at midnight on 11/30/2010 MAKING IT ILLEGAL FOR AMERICANS TO GROW THEIR OWN FOOD. Look it up.