Former FDNY Firefighter, Rudy Dent: "Incontrovertible fact (WTC) buildings were brought down."

Now, I know conspiracies happen... and my first thought when 9/11 happened was "they" did it for money/control... but it was a knee jerk reaction to the enormity and perfect way it played in the elite's favor, but it has not been proven and there are problems with a massive, pre-planned conspiracy.

If they DID do it, why not blame/frame Iraq and have a legit war, instead of the ad-hoc fiasco that landed us there? The trillions misappropriated there IS a scandal... remember the kids from Bob Jones Uni playing football with wads of cash in the "Green Zone." Then that same cash going missing? Billions unaccounted for with young repub interns going home rich? The no bid crony contracts? The massive corruption of Cheney/Bush? That is worth rioting over, not to mention a war under false pretenses.

And then there is the basic decency of most of our people in the loop... they would never stand for a false flag operation of such scope (or any, really). If it did happen as the "truthers" assert, it must have been a very small group.
And the "evidence" is not solid... there is wiggle room for all of it and the false flag narrative doesn't make sense and begins to sound veeeery far fetched and stretched to account for it all (hologram planes? Detained/murdered passengers with cellphones? Yeah... foolproof).

Not to say "they" didn't use the attack as an excuse to circumvent the constitution and eradicate our privacy... they sure as heck DID do that, and again, that is worth rioting over. They (Cheney and diabolic company) may have even quietly given a directive to a couple dept. heads to ignore the evidence for the attack ... and evidence was certainly ignored... but realistically, it looks like it was just bureaucratic incompetence.

Building 7 is weird... but I'm not a structural engineer and when (the great majority of them) say, "No, all the buildings collapsed as expected," then I have to admit they are more knowledgeable than I. People go to school for a few intensive years for that stuff. Radiation, thermite residue... there are other possibilities for the traces IF they really exist... maybe the attackers used them in conjunction with the planes... also, the complex was huge and who knows what materials were held there.

Going on weird comments made during the stress of the event is no basis for a conspiracy ... I know our leadership holds many psychos... but really? And nobody has come out saying "so and so hired us to plant bombs in the Towers" that I'm aware of.

But it sure did end up benefiting the elites... but everything always does.

Ever since this contrived event occurred I have known deep in my heart it was wrong from the get go.
This topic is why I decided to join ATS and my eyes like many others here are wide open.
One thing I have read is that the occupancy rate for the twin towers was very low from the build to the collapse.
As the investigators of any crime always say " Follow the Money"

S&F
Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: havok

go read George Washingtons three visions at Valley Forge/

I'm still sure it was an inside job. Too many "strange" things.

But one thing that's always bugged me, and i'm sure someone has the answers. If it was an inside job, who did they get to fly the planes in to the towers? I mean, how MUCH of this was "inside".... I think the lines get blurred.

I'm genuinely asking.

Thanks for posting OP. These topics always interest me bud sadden me greatly all at once.

What, are you insane?

No.

The micro dust particles ('micro-spheres' that can only be produced by a thermite recation) blanketed the entire area in a thick layer.

Not true.

As for nano-thermite claims, planet.infowars.com...

After reading all of the replies in this thread all I can say is,

It is obvious who has experience in the construction field, or shall I say have no experience at all.

It is easy to sit and look up truther videos and link material from sites, it is not so easy to be in the field and actually construct buildings for a living.

Buildings are not magical. They are made of thousands, if not millions of connections and pieces that all have to work together to perform their duty, which is holding all of that weight straight and sound. Take away, or damage enough of the "pieces" that hold it together, they can no longer operate within their design specifications.

Another thing, everyone holds these so called "engineers" to a godlike status.

They are people, engineers make so many mistakes it is quite comical when you actually construct to their designs.

There is a joke in the construction field. You can never get ahold of the original engineer or architect of a building because they "have been fired".

I have seen everything from I beams through the center of a window, to the wrong damn I beam being called to be used.

I work in the field. I know what it takes to make a building happen.

How many people here can say that. What you want to Google it and act like an expert?

It shows.

It is obvious who has experience in the construction field, or shall I say have no experience at all.

a reply to: liejunkie01

It is obvious as well who has eyes and a brain that actually functions.
Yap all you want but your spinning your wheels bad.

Regards, Iwinder

a reply to: hellobruce

Umm... excuse me?? How, in any possibilities of the laws of physics, would the the jet colliding into the trade center within the 92-98 floor generate enough energy to collapse the remaining floors? Obviously, from Newton's law of motion, floors 73-91 would be more explainable for collapse (let's say floors 60-72 would collapse as well for Newton's sake). Why were the other floors so effortless? I mean, apparently, steel is such a fragile metal that we build every skyscraper known to man out of it.. it couldn't fail at maintaining it's physical and chemical characteristics, right? I mean, should we question the stability of steel? I guess not, we continue to build with it, and the laws of physics still assume that the failing of 18 floors will not bring down a remaining 91 floors of support. Floors 73-92 collapsing, understandable, more or less. But the remaining 72 floors collapsing, where did that energy come from? Since gravity is measured as 9.8 meters per second, why did each tower collapse in about 10 seconds? Why was there no resistance from floors 72 and lower?

From your logic, an un-manned drone carrying 4,500 pounds of fuel would take down a 30-story building. That's if the drone hits around 26-28th floor. The rest will just give away, right? Steel is frail and all..

originally posted by: Iwinder

It is obvious who has experience in the construction field, or shall I say have no experience at all.

a reply to: liejunkie01

It is obvious as well who has eyes and a brain that actually functions.
Yap all you want but your spinning your wheels bad.

Regards, Iwinder

Thats funny,

The exact same thing can be said about you.

I have been to college for welding technologies and completed it. I have sat and had countless hours of discussions with my professor.

I am currently in college for Sheetmetal/HVAC. My grades are excellent.

I gave up on these truther threads a long time ago. Nothing ever changes, especoally the ignorance(which is evident in your reply) nothing ever gets accomplished. I would think that if there was infallible evidence of such nonsense getting spewed, then the case would be heard and something would be done. But it hasn't and won't.

Nice reply to my above comment btw.

a reply to: liejunkie01

I am currently in college for Sheetmetal/HVAC. My grades are excellent. I gave up on these truther threads a long time ago. Nothing ever changes, especoally the ignorance

I am so happy that your grades are excellent in "College" and that you had the smarts as well to give up on these truther threads a long time ago.

Then why are you posting now?
And just maybe some of us that do not have "College" degrees can perhaps open your eyes just a bit?

Regards, Iwinder

guess not, we continue to build with it, and the laws of physics still assume that the failing of 18 floors will not bring down a remaining 91 floors of support.

Wrong

18 floors in motion, downward motion creates more momentum and weight than the connections of the remaining floors can handle. The connections are made ro handle a static load.

static load
Definition
The weight of a single stationary body or the combined weights of all stationary bodies in a structure, such as the load of a stationary vehicle on a roadway. During construction, the static load of the combined weight of forms, stringers, joists, reinforcing bars, and the actual concrete to be placed. See also dead load.

www.dictionaryofconstruction.com...

Now look up the defintion of kinetic load.

You along with many people here have a totally wrong interpretation of physics.

originally posted by: liejunkie01
After reading all of the replies in this thread all I can say is,


Another thing, everyone holds these so called "engineers" to a godlike status.

There are engineers on both sides, is it just the 'Truther' engineers that are incorrect?

You gave us your resume on the link above, there are many engineers involved in this with 35-40 years of experience, again on both sides.

You also said you gave up on these 'truther' arguments long ago, yet here you are,
The definition of a Truther is basically someone who is questioning what they are told and wanting to check it's the truth, if that's a bad thing then it's a thought crime.

originally posted by: Iwinder
a reply to: liejunkie01

I am currently in college for Sheetmetal/HVAC. My grades are excellent. I gave up on these truther threads a long time ago. Nothing ever changes, especoally the ignorance

I am so happy that your grades are excellent in "College" and that you had the smarts as well to give up on these truther threads a long time ago.

Then why are you posting now?
And just maybe some of us that do not have "College" degrees can perhaps open your eyes just a bit?

Regards, Iwinder

I have done countless hours of research on this topic. From a design and structural perspective.

Thank you but I can see through the BS as to why these buildings fell.

Thank you but I can see through the BS as to why these buildings fell.

a reply to: liejunkie01

To each his/her own I guess, did they fall or were they brought down?
I never claim BS unless I can back that up, can you with your ongoing "College" education still in progress?

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: liejunkie01
After reading all of the replies in this thread all I can say is,


Another thing, everyone holds these so called "engineers" to a godlike status.

There are engineers on both sides, is it just the 'Truther' engineers that are incorrect?

You gave us your resume on the link above, there are many engineers involved in this with 35-40 years of experience, again on both sides.

You also said you gave up on these 'truther' arguments long ago, yet here you are,
The definition of a Truther is basically someone who is questioning what they are told and wanting to check it's the truth, if that's a bad thing then it's a thought crime.

The reason I do "sometimes" visit these threads, even though I try to give up on them, is that I have a passion for building and constructing.It is my career, my passion and my choosing.

It does bother me that so much ignorance about the construction of buildings is thrown around here.

I am alright with people questioning authority, when it isn't alright is when the "questioning" leads to ignorant and false pretenses that state them as a fact, such as the physics dribble that gets used alot. Physics can and does explain why these buildings fell. When someone twists physics to support wrongly used information, that is a problem.
As far as "only truther engineers being wrong", I thought in my post above I made it clear that for the most part engineers make mistakes regularly.

If anyone has researched this topic, and still firmly believes the official story more or less, then they are beyond help, IMO. Thankfully, most people are at least a little open-minded. Since the furor has died down, I find that I can talk to people about 9/11 without arousing that propaganda-trained kneejerk response of disgust. Since the evidence is so overwhelming - far more compelling than the average person thinks, thanks to tireless researchers - it's really not difficult to get a constructive dialogue going.

a reply to: liejunkie01

So after all this talk about your creds and your passion, grades and what not, what did happen to those towers?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: liejunkie01

So after all this talk about your creds and your passion, grades and what not, what did happen to those towers?

They were struck with 767's, which caused damage outside of the design specifications for these buildings. Enough components were damaged, which caused other components to try to take up their lack of integrity, which in turn caused them to fail because those connections/parts were subjected to forces outside of their design specifications.

Look at the holes in the side of the buildings. The exoskeleton provided most of the strength to those towers. The visco elastic dampers and truss connections failed which transfered to much load to the other connections. These connections did a great job by supporting their extra load for as long as they did. But inevitably since they were subjected to loads way outside of what they were built for, they eventually failed. Remember the buildings stood for what, an hour and a half after the catastrophic damage? That alone is an amazimg feat brought on by the strength of them alone.

Since buildings are made to support a staitc load and not a kinetic load, excluding the dampers installed for allowable sway, the connections could not withstand a kinetic load of the magnitude of weight and velocity delivered to them. It started a chain reaction because the other connections could not withstand this kinetic load. We are talking hundreds to thousands of tons of weight and force, which none of these connections were designed for.

As far as building number 7. It was not a small building. It was subjected to stresses also, such as massive skyscrapers collapsing right next to it, massive fires raging for hours uncontrollably. It also has design specifications which if the are exceeded, will cause the structural integrity to fail.

I have studied everything from the connections, bolts, dampers, concrete, drywall, decking, stud walls, elevator shafts, and any other component that I cannot think of right off hand. This includes weaknesses, such as shear strength of the bolts, to the thickness of the elevator walls.

There is more than enough information to show that these buildings fell because the forces exceeded the design specifications that were enacted by the engineers and drawn up by the architects.

As for the highjacking plot, it is my belief that there were only acouple of people high enough up the ladder that knew this was going to happen. Instead of doing everything in their power they turned a blind eye for whatever monetary and political gain that they thought they could achieve. This is only my opinion and there hasn't really been any "solid proof" of this happening, only speculative information. But that would be a whole other discussion and can of worms to try to prove.

a reply to: liejunkie01

Only the completely deluded, and hopelessly brainwashed, fear of GOD striking you down parasitical mind-control, complete lack of an original thought except to accept total BS, could make someone believe, and be even capable of writing such things.

Include yourself in the masses that really do have no logic, no separation of lies from reality...

And then take yet a few steps farther down into the black hole anyone who believes this is going, on a DNA level.

I give Kudos to whoever designed this matrix, they have found a way to entirely blaspheme reality into believing its own lies.. the power given away by the those who are powerless to comprehend, who actually LIVE for the Delusions.

But I also tell them, we are coming to rip you a new set of eyes, ones that are INCAPABLE of deceiving yourself, oh wait for that moment, I DO!

Include yourself in the masses that really do have no logic, no separation of lies from reality...

No logic, no separation of lies from reality?

Have you even read what you posted?

Do you mind telling me where my logic is flawed?

Or are you going to continue on posting illegible posts that contradict themselves.