There Might Be 100 Million Planets In Our Galaxy With Complex Life

Its nice to see a great conversation going on around this subject. A lot of careful thought and imagination.

The basis of scientific discovery.

So much is happening in the world of exoplanets and the search for other life in our universe.

Just this week the following stories popped up:

Alien Planet-Hunting Telescope Tool Snaps 1st Amazing Images (Video, Photos) - Space.com

Found! Oldest Known Alien Planet That Might Support Life - Space.com


The Closest Known Potentially Habitable Planet Is 13 Light-Years Away - io9

"Mega-Earth" 17 times heavier than our planet discovered

How The New Mega-Earth Will Change Our Search For Extraterrestrial Life - Seattle Post-Intelligencer


It just so happens that Andre Bormanis, Star Trek and Cosmos writer and consultant interviewed Seth Shostak recently and Seth once again talked about the reasons why he thinks it is likely that we will find ET within the next 20 years.

It hits on many of the points I put across in the OP.

Have a listen to this synopsis from Andre on Planetary Radio:




You can watch the full interview here on Vimeo

And here is a video published this week on the search for extraterrestrial civilizations through looking for Dyson Spheres using data from an infrared space telescope launched in the 1980s.

It also delves into exoplanet atmospheres and the state of what we're learning.

You know what our luck is going to be?

When an alien race makes first contact they are going to be biologically and genetically simliar to something that we raise and eat here on Earth, and when they find out, things are not going to look pretty for us humans.

Just sayin'.

Jill Tarter explains in 30 seconds why we're looking for aliens:

Not necessarily! I am in no way claiming any of the sugestions posted here are true or false because I have NEVER seen anything about this from my own eyes as NO ONE ever has in (at least recent, documented) history. So I will not say its BS as I just dont know! I would just say its a possibility!

Consider this for instance...lets say there are 3 planets in any given line with light years seperating them...let call them Planet A (to the left), Planet B (center) and planet C (to the right). Now we would be Planet A, the "alien world" would be Planet B and they decide to search for life but they head toward Planet C that is unknown (as we would be unknown to them as well, they would take a guess).....they would never find us because they would be looking in the wrong part of space (witch is freaking huge)...they would not know about us and we would not know about them....but both could still be very advanced and have been avoiding each other for ages unintentionally.

Who knows really?!? I for one would love to travel the stars, perhaps not conceivable in my lifetime but one can dream right!

originally posted by: Teye22

Who knows really?!? I for one would love to travel the stars, perhaps not conceivable in my lifetime but one can dream right!

We can tell a lot about a planet from earth so it is not all guesses. Also what would stop an advance civilization 100's of millions of years ago to send out sensors to 100 million planets, hell hit them all. Then it would rather easy to find the good ones.

This is the paradox that we are dealing with, even with 10 billion usable years can a civilization last long enough to do this. They would have evolved into 100 different species in 100 million years too, but since we have zero contact so far it is safe to assume there hasn't been a civilization to do this just yet, and maybe due to the limited span of a species they just never get enough time to do it.

I think someone asked me earlier what was my answer to the Fermi Paradox (ie: If the Galaxy is full of life where are all the aliens? Why haven't we noticed them?)

I have several that depending on my mood I favor.

1. The length of time a coherent technological civilization exists might have some sort of upper limit which we have yet to discover.

2. They have already sent nanotechnology scale devices to our Solar System and Earth and are monitoring us as we speak. Think about it. A nanobot could be crawling on top of the screen of the computer you're reading this on and 99% of humanity including yourself would have no way of knowing....yet.

3. The singularity makes computer simulated worlds more interesting than real ones so most species disappear into them.

4. The time with the most technological alien species in the Milky Way was billions of years before our solar system formed, most are now extinct (in which case we may find plenty of worlds that someone once lived on) -OR- the explosion of technological civilizations is fairly recent and perhaps we're just one of several roughly at the same level.

The thing is, there is no evidence for any of these 4 choices being the correct one. So I hesitate to speculate about the Fermi Paradox but at the moment I like #1 the best.

The only way we'll ever know is if we continue to search for the truth.

originally posted by: JadeStar
The only way we'll ever know is if we continue to search for the truth.

Well, I agree there's no reason not to try. It's not like we have anything better to do with our time.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: JadeStar
The only way we'll ever know is if we continue to search for the truth.

Well, I agree there's no reason not to try. It's not like we have anything better to do with our time.

Exactly.

I look at the issue like the hunt for planets beyond our solar system.

For well over a century astronomers searched for these elusive worlds but only when techniques became sensitive enough (with improved optics, electronics and fast computers) in the 1990s did we find the first ones.

When we have sensitive enough instruments to find the other sentient species in our Milky Way galaxy, we probably will.

The two questions among most involved in the search are:

1) Are our instruments sensitive enough to detect them, if not then how sensitive do we have to make them?

and

2) Are we looking in the right place at the right time?

Go back 30 years and replace the word "extraterrestrials" with "exoplanets" and those same two questions were the top two.

So yes. We should search in every possible way, because we can.

originally posted by: JadeStar
I think someone asked me earlier what was my answer to the Fermi Paradox (ie: If the Galaxy is full of life where are all the aliens? Why haven't we noticed them?)

I have several that depending on my mood I favor.

1. The length of time a coherent technological civilization exists might have some sort of upper limit which we have yet to discover.

2. They have already sent nanotechnology scale devices to our Solar System and Earth and are monitoring us as we speak. Think about it. A nanobot could be crawling on top of the screen of the computer you're reading this on and 99% of humanity including yourself would have no way of knowing....yet.

3. The singularity makes computer simulated worlds more interesting than real ones so most species disappear into them.

4. The time with the most technological alien species in the Milky Way was billions of years before our solar system formed, most are now extinct (in which case we may find plenty of worlds that someone once lived on) -OR- the explosion of technological civilizations is fairly recent and perhaps we're just one of several roughly at the same level.

The thing is, there is no evidence for any of these 4 choices being the correct one. So I hesitate to speculate about the Fermi Paradox but at the moment I like #1 the best.

The only way we'll ever know is if we continue to search for the truth.

Its been discussed that a civilization which expands from its original star system, into others, would gradually reduce the likelihood of any physical threat to its continued existence, as a whole. Beyond a certain distance, even a supernova becomes harmless. Given the available time, it seems reasonable that virtually the entire galaxy could be host to a unified civilization. Its hard to imagine any force that could affect the entirety of that civilization.
Apart from physical threats, it's conceivable that some sort of cultural stagnation could occur. One imagines that the entrance of young, vital, emerging civilizations, like our own, into galactic society could revivify and renew galactic culture. Perhaps it is this that is our value to and place in a larger galactic society.

originally posted by: Ross 54Its been discussed that a civilization which expands from its original star system, into others, would gradually reduce the likelihood of any physical threat to its continued existence, as a whole. Beyond a certain distance, even a supernova becomes harmless. Given the available time, it seems reasonable that virtually the entire galaxy could be host to a unified civilization. Its hard to imagine any force that could affect the entirety of that civilization.
Apart from physical threats, it's conceivable that some sort of cultural stagnation could occur. One imagines that the entrance of young, vital, emerging civilizations, like our own, into galactic society could revivify and renew galactic culture. Perhaps it is this that is our value to and place in a larger galactic society.

Good points all.

I guess that is why I sort of drift between the 4 answers to the Fermi Paradox which I posted above.

#2 is especially interesting.

BTW: Sort of related, have you watched the documentary series "Alien Encounter" on the Science Channel? Good stuff in there regarding different thoughts on the form alien colonization might take place. A lot of real world scientists explain different things during it.

If you have not watched it I suggested you start with Season 1 (they are in Season 3 currently).

This was an excerpt of one of the episodes from Season 1:



I highly recommend this series for anyone interested in this subject.

Thank you, Jadestar, for the suggestion. I will look into the 'Alien Encounter' documentaries.
I think it likely that we are closely and covertly observed by extraterrestrial civilization. Nanotechnology is a possible means, based on our current knowledge and the direction in which it seems to be developing. Since any reasonable advanced technology would have both microscopic and macroscopic devices, it appears possible that the latter are also present at Earth.
The common theme here is one of a subtle or covert extraterrestrial presence at Earth, whatever the means of making it so. The Fermi paradox, in common with other paradoxes, indicates that some piece of information, necessary to resolve the puzzle, is missing. For me, a subtle extraterrestrial presence, too subtle to be universally understood, is the least unlikely solution.

originally posted by: Ross 54
Its hard to imagine any force that could affect the entirety of that civilization. Apart from physical threats, it's conceivable that some sort of cultural stagnation could occur.

A significant limiting factor would appear to be good old evolution. As a civilization moves out into the galaxy and encounters different environments over a long, long period of time (a billion years maybe) it's almost inevitable that they'll evolve, and possibly into something that is radically different than the creatures who first set out into space. If human beings ever decide to go that route, rather than just turn inward and live in the universes inside our own heads, who knows that kind of creatures we might evolve into along the way? So in a way, that would be the end of our civilization, with only fragments of it remaining that shift and drift through the galaxy.

With tongue firmly in cheek there are three major sets of behavioral issues that could restrict the Drake equation
1) Religion - If a faith becomes strong enough the outward pressure to explore could be stifled. Intelligence yes ,but if the drive is missing everyone stays home.
2) Politicians - The ability for a civilization to expand depends on the method of the rulers. It can make or break progress. The types of politics practiced by a space-faring race can and will change in route unless they are all in deep sleep for transit then the HAL question rears it's ugly head.
3) Greed - Does it create the means for expansion or does it serve up the best stuff to a limited few? The being that controls the purse strings can decide where to place improvements.
Just playing with it.
I expect that any report of an alien intelligence will shake the worlds foundation. The question is will it make us too scared to venture out into the abyss or encourage us to join the galaxy in the ultimate propagation of our species?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Ross 54
Its hard to imagine any force that could affect the entirety of that civilization. Apart from physical threats, it's conceivable that some sort of cultural stagnation could occur.

A significant limiting factor would appear to be good old evolution. As a civilization moves out into the galaxy and encounters different environments over a long, long period of time (a billion years maybe) it's almost inevitable that they'll evolve, and possibly into something that is radically different than the creatures who first set out into space. If human beings ever decide to go that route, rather than just turn inward and live in the universes inside our own heads, who knows that kind of creatures we might evolve into along the way? So in a way, that would be the end of our civilization, with only fragments of it remaining that shift and drift through the galaxy.

I'm inclined to think that a galaxy colonizing species would have sought out environments similar to that it had known, or adapt those it found to resemble its home world. This would presumably minimize the need for adaptive evolution.
A galactic civilization would presumably have come to be made up of a multitude of widely different species, which originated on different worlds. The sum of their contributions to that civilization would be its basis. Yes, that culture would evolve over time, based on those contributions. A living, vital culture should, and must evolve. What was best, and most universally important would abide.

So I ran the numbers through the Drake Equation. Unfortunately Humans are the only intelligent evolved species in the Universe kind of a bummer.

The problem with looking for life in the Galaxy is that we've only just developed the capacity to do so. For all we know another civilisation could have risen and then fallen whilst we were still hitting each other with pointy sticks. Hell, we've only had radio for the past 90 years, so the chances are that no-one else has picked up those broadcasts and knows that we even exist.

a reply to: JadeStar

The most likely Dyson Sphere that science will ever see.

Dyson Ball

I really like the space threads but sometimes I think even scientist need to rein in their ideas.

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: JadeStar

The most likely Dyson Sphere that science will ever see.

Dyson Ball

I really like the space threads but sometimes I think even scientist need to rein in their ideas.

We do all the time. When something is physically impossible.

Read a little on Wikipedia about Dyson Spheres and the Kardashev Scale to classify potential extraterrestrial civilizations. Interesting concept. I am especially intrigued by the idea of the "Type Omega-minus" hypothetical civilization that "is capable of manipulating the basic structure of space and time".

Further above you gave a list with 4 answers to the Fermi paradox and why are not seeing (or recognizing!!) aliens. My hypothesis and point #5 to add would be that Aliens do visit, they do this indeed for thousands of years already. They are indeed such a "type omega-minus" civilization which is so advanced that it is literally inconceivable to us. They can manipulate space/time which means that the concept of "distance" is not relevant to them, instant "travel" through space even 100s of light years etc. is possible. Since they mastered "space" and "time" they are independent from it, but they can enter or leave our physical plane of reality at will and interact with us on this "lower" plane. For us they appear "paranormal", mythical beings or "gods", whatever we call them. I am aware this sounds outlandish and not so scientific, but if you speculate that such "type omega-minus" civilization exists and may interact with us (for purposes we cannot know)..you will understand that it's not that far off.

Given that distances in the universe are rather "silly", aka there is no way to traverse those distances using conventional physics in reasonable time...it makes sense to assume THAT a civilization who does interstellar space-travel MUST be so advanced that they mastered space/time, so they must fall into the highest advanced category. (I don't think that generation ships etc. or even "almost light speed" space-travel would cut it for serious space travel) : )

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: JadeStar

The most likely Dyson Sphere that science will ever see.

Dyson Ball

I really like the space threads but sometimes I think even scientist need to rein in their ideas.

We do all the time. When something is physically impossible.

Sorry for late reply but given the usual size quoted for a Dyson Sphere it probably is!