Atheists being persecuted in the USA.

a reply to: AnIntellectualRedneck

You've peaked my interest.... I came across some pagan forums about a year ago, while searching for a local store that might carry ceremonial herbs. I never found the herbs, but I did read some interesting introductions of people looking for other pagans to befriend (in a part of the bible belt). I thought it was really neat, and I kind of wanted to join. Alas, I did not.

My mama always told me not to discuss politics or religion in public or with strangers. It's a good policy and I think if more people would follow that little guideline, everyone would get along better.

I believe in god...it's organized religion, especially those that discourage free thinking, that are the problem along with this strange belief that some folks have that their DUTY is to persuade you to believe whatever they believe.

"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't try to cram it down my or my children's throats."

As far as I can see, the above also applies to those whose religion is not having one at all. Why can't we just relax and let other people have their beliefs, even if we think they're wrong?

a reply to: DustbowlDebutante

Same rule when I ran pubs If anyone started talking about them at the bar I would tell them to sit somewhere so others can't get involved...beer and those topics can get nasty. lol.

Oh and lol at the penis quote..mind If I use that?.

a reply to: boymonkey74

True that.

You're welcome to use the quote all you like. I found a photo on the web (may have been photoshopped for all I know) of a billboard that had that printed on it, and I've always remembered it because it struck a chord with me.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Lol I know it is normally the Christians right?.
Just to point out Iam not an atheist I just found this vid and thought you would like to see it.

Now there is swearing so If your under 18 don't press play or If you are a prude same thing.

Many more examples.

www.ft.com...

It isn't just in the States.

www.reuters.com...

www.secularism.org.uk...

So have any of you atheists or non religious been persecuted from the religious?.
Why can't the religious understand they don't know the truth no one does and to claim you do is arrogant.
God begins where humanity's imagination ends.
I have in work many times thoughts?.

That guy is a religious fanatic. If only he could see the irony.

The op has brought up a point that there are articles that Atheists are being persecuted in the USA.

The problems are that there are hurts that run on both sides, and more extremist groups tend to give their respective groups a bad name. Christians are not so innocent as they would seem to be, nor are Atheists. Neither represent their better natures, most often what we see are accusations and complaints about the other side.

Is there persecution, yes and it is on both sides. While the Atheist complain that they are the targets of Christians, at the same time, they their actions, by taking legal actions when something offends, gets tiring and ultimately really irritates people. From monuments voted on by the very people that it was there to represent, to the removal of time honored traditions, which have been around for years, is not right.

If either side wants to show up in a better light, then maybe tolerance and showing their better natures is the way to go.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Thing is atheists (and hopefully some religious) have to fight to keep religion out of state affairs...If they didn't you would have a theocracy in 10 years.
I agree tolerance is key but when people see something that is wrong they have to speak up.
Also If religious didn't try and convert and preach and condemn the atheists (or anti theists like me) they wouldn't care what they thought or believed but when their religion is pushed onto others....people push back.

a reply to: DustbowlDebutante

"Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't try to cram it down my or my children's throats."

No, it's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But just like a penis, it's wholly inappropriate to wave it around or shove it down my kid's throat.

That's how the saying goes.

a reply to: boymonkey74
While I do agree that religion should remain out of government, please explain to me how targeting a memorial to World War I vets, which they decided is doing such?
How is having Christmas carols being sung by school children so offensive, when for years it has been done before?
Or the removal of things that have been in place for 40, 50, 60, 70 even 100 years doing any good?

While I do not agree with the Christians on many things, most would prefer I and others like me remain hidden and out of sight, I do agree that there has to be a point where some things that have been around for years, should remain in place, as it is a part of history. And the destruction, and out right dismemberment of said history is an affront to us all.

a reply to: boymonkey74

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Thing is atheists (and hopefully some religious) have to fight to keep religion out of state affairs...If they didn't you would have a theocracy in 10 years.

Excellent point, my simian friend. Those are the ones I spoke of in my post. The ones who work within the law, with reason and logic to strengthen the separation of church and state in order to guard against theocracy.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
I do agree that there has to be a point where some things that have been around for years, should remain in place, as it is a part of history. And the destruction, and out right dismemberment of said history is an affront to us all.

A religious Christmas celebration in a government sponsored school that does NOT celebrate other religious holidays is an affront to Jews, atheists, Muslims and others who attend the school. Not to mention being a violation of the first amendment. Removing Christian dogma from government institutions (or allowing all religious thought, equally) puts all religions on an equal ground, as far as the government is concerned.

I don't have any problem with Christian displays in government institutions. My problem comes when they disallow other points of view to be celebrated. That constitutes government establishment of a particular religion.

You're right, for many years, Christianity has been accepted as THE religion of the US and therefore was allowed into places where it probably shouldn't be (in our schools, on our coins, in our secular cemeteries, etc.) But, this country is supposed to be open to ALL religious thought, and our government buildings and institutions should reflect that.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Thanks. I knew it was something like that.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Oh I know people can take it just to far.
I never mind a xmas carol, I love Christmas even though Iam not a Christian.
Now I don't know about the ww1 vets so I can not comment.
But just because things have been around for years it doesn't mean they have to stay for ever, things and views change.
I think the USA is very different from many other western countries (uk etc) because they are so religious we in the uk are not and when those religions try to dumb down the populace by ignoring science and trying to get religion in the science room by falsely lying and making stuff up Iam sure glad their are people fighting for the future of educatiopn in the states.
Did you watch ID on trial? the lies and cheating the ID people did and they got found out in court and reason won that day.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: sdcigarpig

Thing is atheists (and hopefully some religious) have to fight to keep religion out of state affairs...If they didn't you would have a theocracy in 10 years.
I agree tolerance is key but when people see something that is wrong they have to speak up.
Also If religious didn't try and convert and preach and condemn the atheists (or anti theists like me) they wouldn't care what they thought or believed but when their religion is pushed onto others....people push back.

I heard you say this in another thread too...

It makes me curious, because my beliefs are completely linked with my every day life. There is no way to disconnect. I have one belief; Love one another. How I define this differs greatly from whatever image is likely projected upon me by those words.

I think the issue is actually deeper than that. If people were to truly follow the words of Jesus, or even the Catechism, I firmly believe this world would be a better place. But they dont. They use the title, and speak fluffy words, but do not actually put them into their actions.

The "religion" that most people do not like is the one that is used for control. One method of many that inspires division amongst the masses, and an inherent superiority above those who believe differently. This is something that can manifest in more ways than simply whether or not one believes in God(s), and I think that is something that is extremely relevant to a thread such as this.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic
While I do agree with you, to a point. But every year, it is one thing or another, and each time it gets worse and worse. It is not a majority in one spot that is making problems, but one or 2 in areas that are making the big ruckus.

Yes religion should stay out of the government institutions, however, at what cost? Children, when it is the holidays, are not thinking of religion, they are thinking of presents and of the lights, trees, and the festive nature of the holidays. And personally, most get a kick out of singing a lot of the Christmas carols, including the secular music that is there. Do we destroy the wonder in a child;s mind cause some would find some of the music so offensive, cause it mentions one religion or another? Do you want to continue to divide a society in ways that it should not be, or use such to bring a community together?

The idea of other faiths being shown in institutions is new, and it needs to take time to be accepted. But by forcing changes is wrong, and ultimately it divides the community, where one group or another feels that they are oppressed.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ColeYounger

Look at my sig lol.

I really like your sig, but I disagree that we will attain perfection when religion is abolished.

I agree that the world we be a MUCH better place, but humanity will still have a lot of work to do.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Yup

To me every holy book should be one line....

"treat people how you want to be treated"

It really is so simple but they have to put their own laws in etc.

a reply to: OpenEars123

It would be a good start something to build upon.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I think thats the interesting point. When boiled down, that really is pretty much what religions teach. But, it is not how they are practiced. I am sure you have noticed.

It is used as a platform to instill personal ideology that actually contradicts the teaching of whatever religion they might claim. Its kind of like Agenda 21. Its all about "sustainable, green, smart growth!" and who doesnt want that? Yet, when its looked into, it actually has very, very little to do with those things.

I think its pretty safe to say that most religions have been hi-jacked for the purpose of societal control. Any belief system, or "lack of belief system," is just as susceptible as the next. And it makes "them" like teflon, where the religion they claim will be blamed for "x" while they tend to just become a faded headline. The lasting impression is a negative one towards the church, rather than those who use it to control.

I have little doubt that Atheism will be used in the same way. The moment the first Atheist Church is built, we will know that time has come.

Its a systematic method of control using the prevailing societal systems. One that is extraordinarily effective, since most will blame whatever mask they wear, rather than the people behind it. So, if we were to change the perception of the term "religion" to not require God(s), I think it would be exceedingly more effective in actually addressing the problem.

originally posted by: boymonkey74

So have any of you atheists or non religious been persecuted from the religious?.

Government
Science progression
Tax free billion dollar business
Right to my own body
Marriage equality
KKK - yes they are a Christian group
Disruption of natural cultures - Hawaii is always a good example
Book burning
Record smashing - Go! Elvis
Altering high school yearbooks

Uh, yeah. This list could go on and on.