Why did the "moon ring like a bell" when anything landed on it? Not only American aircraft but Rus

originally posted by: Margana
I didn't say science is the one who claims to know everything & have all the answers, humans are the ones who claim to know everything & have all the answers. So long as we, as humans, are willing to admit we don't know everything and continue to search for answer than science will continue to try to answer things.

Science and the scientific method are a human construct. It is humans who (through science) constantly question what we think we know about the natural world. It is humans (through science) who are constantly trying to poke holes in the "current thinking" in order to try to come up with a better understanding of things.

Granted, I see people here on ATS all the time who seem shocked every time science learns that they previously misunderstood some aspect of natural or the universe. Those people invariably say things such as "scientist think they know everything, but they don't", betraying their ignorance by saying those sorts of things. However, I don't blame everyone just because there are a few people like that who don't seem to understand how science works.

a reply to: GArnold
I'm thinking that a dual moon collision would help to explain the asteroid belt as well. Even if the main body's of both planetoids melded together there would still be "splatter" and projectiles thrown off.

a reply to: GArnold


You seem to have posted this with a low amount of looking anything up. I didn't, and can answer them. First of all, there is no atmosphere on the moon to make an audible sound, so it was just vibration from landing the ship. The moon has older rocks because the Earth has a system to take in it's plates and make new ones. There is no oxidation because there is obviously no oxygen. The distance is actually not perfect, the sun is still large to us than the moon in a solar eclipse. You are coming up with uneducated questions to make a post.

a reply to: bocaj417


"because the Earth has a system to take in it's plates and make new ones"


Metamorphic System.


yes ,,yes thats it,,

now read all of it ,,,

geology.utah.gov...

What are Igneous, Sedimentary,
& Metamorphic Rocks?

by Rebecca Hylland

part two,

"a system to take in it's plates",,????

a reply to: GArnold

Back in Pennsylvania (and other places around the world), there is an area known as the devil's racecourse, which is basically a big boulder field. However, some of the rocks there also ring like they're hollow when hit with various objects. As far as I know, there's no known scientific explanation for why this happens with certain rocks (if you know why this happens, please fill me in). I don't feel like doing the research right now to see if the rocks there are the same kind as would be found on the moon, but I'm curious as to whether the same thing happened on the moon, albeit on a massively larger scale.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: GArnold
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Sure..

Here is one I found quickly

"
4. The Puzzle of Why the Moon "Rings" like a Hollow Sphere When a Large Object Hits It: During the Apollo Moon missions, ascent stages of lunar modules as well as the spent third stages of rockets crashed on the hard surface of the moon. Each time, these caused the moon, according to NASA, to "ring like a gong or a bell." On one of the Apollo 12 flights, reverberations lasted from nearly an hour to as much as four hours. NASA is reluctant to suggest that the moon may actually be hollow, but can otherwise not explain this strange facts."


home1.gte.net...

Interesting. I would think that it would be something a highly sensitive listening device would have picked up over the years with all the asteroid impacts that have occurred on the moon. I am sure some of those would have been MUCH larger than a tiny rocket part. Maybe it is similar to the ringing rocks I have read about....you can kit them with a hammer and they resonate....there are a ton of videos on them out there.

I haven't read all the replies so I might be repeating what someone has said. Before Apollo Astronauts placed a seismograph on the moon we had no way to record vibrations (there isn't air therefore you can't have a 'listening' device) NASA stated after we left the moon these seismographs continued to operate for 8 years during which the seismographs recorded 12558 Events that were later classified into several categories. The events that were the easiest to detect had been artificial impacts, parts of the lunar modules and rocket stages that were directed to the surface close to the landing sites. Furthermore thousands of meteorite impacts were registered.

I know MOST people think NASA is withholding anything unusual but at the time I heard the broadcast during Apollo 11 that stated they directed the lunar module into the moon's surface to test the seismograph they had just left behind and NASA announced that the moon "rang like a bell for 20 minutes!" and even stated that was a complete mystery and had no explanation!
NASA could have easily withheld that information but broadcast is just hours after it happened so for what it's worth NASA sometimes do admit when they can't explain something!

a reply to: CyberGarp

For a good technical write-up on the seismic data, start with the Apollo 12 Preliminary Science Report (23MB .pdf). The chapter on the results of the Passive Seismic Experiment starts on page 39 of the document (p. 49 of the .pdf) and the relevant section for this thread starts on page 48 (p. 58 of the .pdf) under the heading "Discussion"

To summarize, the seismic/acoustic properties indicate high scattering, but low attenuation. This combination does not occur in the Earth's crust.

Other Apollo Preliminary Science Reports can be accessed from this page of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

As far as this "hollow moon" nonsense, so much confusion could have been saved if the PAO said the Moon "...rang like a gong," but then I suppose the nutters would take this as evidence that the Moon is a solid flat metal disk.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

This has been posted many times before.

phys.org...

www.redicecreations.com...

www.nasa.gov...

home1.gte.net...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Hollow Moon Theory

originally posted by: GArnold
a reply to: Vasa Croe

"2. The Puzzle of the Moon's Age: Incredibly, over 99 percent of the moon rocks brought back turned out upon analysis to be older than 90 percent of the oldest rocks that can be found on earth. The first rock Neil Armstrong picked up after landing on the Sea of Tranquility turned out to be more than 3.6 billion years old. Other rocks turned out to be even older; 4.3, 4.5, 4.6, and one even alleged to be 5.3 billion years old! The oldest rocks found on earth are about 3.7 billion years old, and the area that the moon rocks came from was thought by scientists to be one of the youngest areas of the moon! Based on such evidence, some scientists have concluded that the moon was formed among the stars long before our sun was born."

www.cnn.com...

The oldest rock found on Earth is not 3.7 billion years old. Rather, it's 4.4 billion years old. The solar system itself is only 4.567 billion years. So, claiming that a moon rock is 5.3 billion years old is simply ridiculous.

a reply to: andrewh7
Also, need to point out that this:

Other rocks turned out to be even older; 4.3, 4.5, 4.6, and one even alleged to be 5.3 billion years old!

Is false. No 5.3 billion year old rocks from the Moon.

originally posted by: wulff
I know MOST people think NASA is withholding anything unusual but at the time I heard the broadcast during Apollo 11 that stated they directed the lunar module into the moon's surface to test the seismograph they had just left behind and NASA announced that the moon "rang like a bell for 20 minutes!" and even stated that was a complete mystery and had no explanation!

Hate to be picky but this wasn't during the Apollo 11 mission.

The Apollo 11 ascent module was set adrift in lunar orbit and left there. It would eventually have hit the lunar surface as its orbit decayed (thanks to the gravitational variation of lunar 'mascons'), but no-one knows when this occurred or where. The Apollo 11 seismometer stopped working after 21 days.

The 'ring like a bell' metaphor (and I repeat, that is all it is) came during Apollo 13 after the S-IVB crashed into the surface not far from Apollo 12's seismometer.

here's what was relayed to the crew:

078:02:25 By the way, Aquarius, we see the results now from 12's seismometer. Looks like your booster just hit the Moon, and it's rocking it a little bit. Over.

That was made 6 minutes after impact.

7 hours later we have:

085:08:29 CC Say, Fred, did you get the dope on the Saturn IV impact - S-IVB impact?

085:08:41 LMP Yes. Just as we came around the corner, Vance, they told us that it hit - I don't recall the position now, but it was a ... impact ... and recorded it on the ... seismometer.

085:09:04 CC Yes. It impacted 74 nautical miles from the ALSEP, and the passive seismic detected major seismic activity on all long period channels and this was - this activity was dctected for 4 hours afterwards.

The 'ring like a bell' analogy was not used by the crew or ground.

e2a: The Apollo 12 LM impact was widely anticipated and was discussed quite a bit during the mission. At no point is that analogy used during any mission broadcast. A post on Cosmoquest suggests that the whole thing is a misreport from a press conference

cosmoquest.org...

a reply to: onebigmonkey
You are right, I apologize, been going through some terrible family issues so I am thinking from the wrong part of my brain!! LOL, thanks for correcting me.

a reply to: GArnold

This is why I love ATS... great post like this... so much for hollow earth theory, more like hollow moon or spaceship!!

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Sure, Sure

a reply to: eriktheawful

Yeap sir, no idea about Physics

a reply to: MCL1150

I dunno, you could always go to GLP as well

www.godlikeproductions.com...

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
a reply to: MCL1150

I dunno, you could always go to GLP as well

www.godlikeproductions.com...

LOL, it's almost an exact copy of this ATS thread.

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
Ringing like a bell is an analogy.

A metaphor.

It is not hollow. It is not made of metal. It did not make a noise. The only medium to transmit the vibration is solid matter as their is no air up there.

Bell ringing is used metaphorically to refer to sound and vibration.

For example the phrase "he had his bell rung" (referring to someone getting hit on the head very hard) comes from the feeling of vibration you have after receiving a hard blow to the head.

It's very clear from context that NASA was using it in the sense of vibration not sound.

Nonetheless, the phenomena remains mysterious and none of the explanations are completely satisfying.

It rang like a bell because it is hollow. The moon is an artificial satellite placed there to bring life to this planet. One day we will be able to do this type of thing.

a reply to: GArnold

My only question about the "ringing" is that...simply put: there is no atmosphere on the moon, nor is there an atmosphere between earth and the moon. In order to ring like a bell, would there not be some atmosphere in order to hear it? Unless there was some sensor(s) that measured the vibrational frequency in the moon itself. I do not recall mentions of any seismic gear, but then that was long ago and my memory fails me regularly lol.

originally posted by: Moresby

originally posted by: onebigmonkey
Ringing like a bell is an analogy.

A metaphor.

It is not hollow. It is not made of metal. It did not make a noise. The only medium to transmit the vibration is solid matter as their is no air up there.

Bell ringing is used metaphorically to refer to sound and vibration.

For example the phrase "he had his bell rung" (referring to someone getting hit on the head very hard) comes from the feeling of vibration you have after receiving a hard blow to the head.

It's very clear from context that NASA was using it in the sense of vibration not sound.

Nonetheless, the phenomena remains mysterious and none of the explanations are completely satisfying.

It is indeed very clear that they refer to vibration, but the phenomenon is not mysterious. Seismometers on the moon work in exactly the same way as they do on Earth and the information provided by them is analysed in exactly the same way to determine the internal structures involved.