Texas Restaurant Bans Gay Couple Because ‘We Do Not Like Fags’

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Holding hands isn't objectionable, and the only ones claiming it is are those who are claiming Christians praying in public bothers them. Praying quietly isn't any more offensive than any other conversation at a table, so get over it.

Would you support a restaurant owner for banning someone for praying quietly in his restaurant?

Logic fallacy. Praying quietly isn't offensive behavior. Groping one another in public is. Praying is Constitutionally protected. Public sex isn't. If you can't argue more logically than that, just give up.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Overt sexual advances in a public place aren't appropriate for anyone.

You have no idea what this couple was doing, much less be able to label it as "overt sexual advances".

You have no idea, either. Stop pretending otherwise. If their behavior was offensive, as the owner claims, he has every right to ban them. That is what I stated. Deal with it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Gryphon66
All claiming this restaurant owner doesn't have a right to his opinions are being hypocritical.

I haven't seen ANYONE saying he doesn't have a right to his opinion. You're making things up. In fact, not only does he have the right, he has the LEGAL right to toss them out.

Ah, but anyone that supports him is in the wrong, in your eyes? Calling him a bigot is acceptable? That's been done in this thread, many times, by many people.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

It's not that dumb when you think about it. why do people dislike/not believe/not accept Etc gay people?

the majority of reasons can be found with Straight people too.

"Texas Restaurant Bans Gay Couple Because ‘We Do Not Like Fags" Who would have thought this in the land of tolerance and multiculturalism. Whatever I'm sick of being told I need to like and tolerate everyone. I have more to say but it's considered taboo in this country.

originally posted by: luciddream
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I consider it a behavioral thing, perhaps caused by various environmental factors coupled with possible mental factors, perhaps caused by a simple choice. So, I don't agree with it, or consider it normal. People come in male and female. Behavior isn't the same as genetics.

lol so i assume you can change your taste in a jiffy!

Actually, people's taste can be changed, at least for a time. I had a female friend, very into guys, who, after a seriously abusive marriage, switched to living with another woman for a time. While that was happening, she behaved as you would expect, claiming that was simply what she wanted, but later, when she realized why she was there, she got away from that, got her emotional problems from the abuse straightened out, and ended up happily married to a really nice guy. Several kids, and happy as can be. She said then it was the abuse from the first husband that caused her to go that direction. Her own environment did, for a time, change her taste. Some other issues in her past, coupled with that abuse, made her more likely to go that direction. Someone with a different background wouldn't be as likely to do what she did. As I stated, behavior is very complex. There are tons of factors in each and every person's life that affect our behavior, and they are different for each of us. For me, that wouldn't happen, because my background isn't the sort that would make me head in that direction. For her, that was enough.

originally posted by: luciddream
Today i will decide to like guys, tomorrow i will decide to like girls!

Some people do just that.

originally posted by: luciddream
No matter how hard i try, i will not find men attractive, my brain chemicals tell me i am attracted to women. I would assume it works the same for gay men.

Well, I am very definitely a woman totally and always attracted to men. I love every single thing about the male physique. That is natural and normal. For people attracted to the same sex, something has gone off track. Various environmental factors, which can include things that affect brain chemistry, make some people attracted to the same sex, instead of the opposite, as nature intends. From a purely scientific point of view, sex is designed for procreation. Attraction to the same sex is thus not the norm. The path by which each person gets there might vary, but so does the path by which people end up with cancer. Claiming it's genetic doesn't match any research, either. None.

originally posted by: luciddream
Sorry, it is not behavioural, just like a left handed person cannot suddenly deicide to be a right handed person. It is already written in their brain, the environment simply enhances what is already there.

What is behavioural thing is when people brought up to think inside a box, they refuse to think outside of it.

Proof? Show your proof that it's genetic. For a LONG time, it was called behavioral/mental in the books, till lobbying changed that. No science supports any genetic cause, however. The only possible physical factor is MAYBE some hormonal issues in pregnancy, and even that isn't certain. It's a long way from genetic, too.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You're describing bisexuality. God almighty, you just don't get it - do you?

Edit: It doesn't matter whether it's hormonal or genetic or how it happens. All that matters is that it is what it is and that there's no amount of religious or social pressure that will ever, ever change that.

dp

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You're describing bisexuality. God almighty, you just don't get it - do you?

Edit: It doesn't matter whether it's hormonal or genetic or how it happens. All that matters is that it is what it is and that there's no amount of religious or social pressure that will ever, ever change that.

You made the statement, and now you complain when I address it? I am not the one that doesn't "get it". People clearly DO decide to mes around with a different sex one day than another. Are you going to claim that's genetic now, too? Still waiting on that proof.

Yes, of course it matters. It's a behavior, and those engaging want to claim protected status for it. There are claims of discrimination against the "homosexual minority", so yes, it definitely matters why and how it happens.

Again, waiting on that proof. I figure you don't have it, since you are now claiming it "doesn't matter".

How any of this excuses bad behavior in a restaurant, I would love to know.

So, thinking for the sake of fairness, in the 29 States you can get fired just for being Gay, you should also be able to get fired just for owning a Gun

It appears the best defence some have it to tattle tale on perfectly normal posts that they get their cranky pants in a bunch over.

How very unsurprising. I suppose that's the way it's always been for some people since the school yard - they can't handle themselves or others, so they run to the teachers and cry as though they've been hurt and point fingers.

This is also the type of person that Big what's-his-name and his daughter are. They have no better way to display their bigotry and dislike of certain people than running their business like a tiny little kingdom of intolerance.

I suppose it's lucky for the rest of us that in the long run, these people are only humorous caricatures to be parodied and laughed at.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

It's not that dumb when you think about it. why do people dislike/not believe/not accept Etc gay people?

the majority of reasons can be found with Straight people too.

I'd say many people have a problem with the gay movements constant ''in-your-face'' attitude...''accept us when we parade half naked or else you are a bigot''. If gay folks have the right to announce their gayness non-stop, then others also have the right to voice their less than flattering views on gay people without being attacked for it.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

Why place "scientific" in quotes? Just because you don't agree with the data?

Firstly, since you have been civil, I feel your questions deserve a civil reply

I wrote 'scientific' as innuendo, because not everything science has to say is 100% proven. The only 100% known fact about the cause of homosexuality is that there is no 100% proven theory to date.

Science can be and is often wrong. For instance, when the catholic church thought it owned science, it was 100% taught and believed that the world is flat and that the earth was the centre of the galaxy and all planets revolved around us.

So, you may choose to believe what you read about many scientific theories only to discover a few years later it has been totally disproved again.

In short - don't pin all your belief in one theory on homosexuality because they are not there yet with knowing what causes it.

You didn't state your reasons. Your own case might not fit those standards, but many cases do. I have personally known people that became homosexual as a result of abuse. Some left later, some didn't. Their STATED reason was the abuse. Another person I know stated flat out that being raised by her lesbian mother and partner was what made her that way. Her statement, not mine. When the science I read agrees with personal testimonies from people I know and have known, then yes, I tend to believe the science. "Everyone else's" testimony isn't the same as yours. Some might be, but a LOT are not. It's a complicated thing, as I already stated. Not all will have the same cause.

See above comments. Yes, people might say those things, and they may be right in their own case. I've also met straight men who were sexually abused by men, so I am not 100% sure that sexual abuse is the cause or not. Call those men gay and they will beat the cr@p out of you!

I will however agree that sexual abuse a terrible thing that leaves an indelible stain on someone's soul. My own mother was sexually abused and she is no lesbian either.

Here's some subjective evidence for you in my own case; My mother swears to this very day that when I was born she sensed there was something different about me. Being catholic, she was certain she had just given birth to a saint or something. She used to say it every now and then as a kid when I was growing up. You can imagine her shock and disappointment at the discovery that I am gay. An no, it is not a rebellion thing in me either.

Oh, I agree. Simply propping up legs shouldn't be an issue, unless it caused some damage to a seat, which isn't what was stated here. However, it's very possible that a lot more than that went on. I have seen straight couple do that and then move on to some seriously inappropriate behavior. That, coupled with a ban for paying customers, is what makes me inclined to believe the couple in this case was likely doing something like that, and was thus banned. I have seen people react to that kind of thing, too, depending on how busy the place was, and who noticed. Sometimes people complain, and sometimes they don't. A complaint would have been warranted in those cases, though.

Very good rule. The problem would be in locating such a case, because even when they happen, they don't tend to get media coverage, and in a small Texas town, people aren't likely to talk about it it it happened to them. Plus, if someone was banned, it seems unlikely they'd come forward and talk about it now. It would clear things up if some did, though! Likewise, if a homosexual couple went in, didn't do anything but eat and talk, and wasn't banned, that would show the same thing. If it was shown that a straight couple got away with it, that would be strong evidence that this pair was targeted, too. It would be nice if we had more witnesses, or video.

Like many of these scenarios its a lot of hearsay and not a lot of solid evidence. My simple answer to the OP is that assuming the story is true then the restaurant needs to be consistent. i.e. I would expect heterosexual couples to be banned for the same behaviour. If this is the case, then there is no problem other than the very rude girl saying we don't like fags here.

She needs to be disciplined and taught about customer service. - Yeah sure, if it's a house rule that legs are not allowed to be placed on another person, ban them. But cite the legs rule, do not use derogatory terms. She can think what she said, but she shouldn't say it in a professional situation.

Second thread I've read in the last 15 minutes that has a certain someone spouting ignorance. rolls eyes

If they throw couples of all sexualities and genders out because of public displays of affection, that's fine. Their bigoted comments are not. Even if they do kick people out equally - which I have a hard time believing when you take in to consideration their homophobic remarks - it doesn't excuse what they've said. That sign on their window there? That's total bull#.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

It's not that dumb when you think about it. why do people dislike/not believe/not accept Etc gay people?

the majority of reasons can be found with Straight people too.

I'd say many people have a problem with the gay movements constant ''in-your-face'' attitude...''accept us when we parade half naked or else you are a bigot''. If gay folks have the right to announce their gayness non-stop, then others also have the right to voice their less than flattering views on gay people without being attacked for it.

Those parades take place as a celebration of not only freedom of expression but in honour of those of us who marched against the establishment to afford us rights which were being denied. If you don't like the odd "in your face" parade - don't watch.

You can flaunt your vile hatred for others all you want, but you should be prepared for the good in people to come forth and take you down a notch - which they have many times and it's been a never-ending source of giggles for me.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
... and make an attempt to Answer to the point.

Alright .. that made me laugh. Coming from you that's funny.

Answer this question which you've been asked a dozen times before -
Should ALL HUMANS have equal rights. Yes or no? Why or why not?
and - in your words - make an attempt to finally answer the point.

ATS Thread - Should All Humans Have Equal Rights

ETA - and before you try to deflect with 'that's not the topic' ... yes, it is. It's part of the discussion. Answer the yes or no question ... should all humans have equal rights?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Logic fallacy. Praying quietly isn't offensive behavior. Groping one another in public is. Praying is Constitutionally protected. Public sex isn't. If you can't argue more logically than that, just give up.

If the owner has a sign on the door that it's a secular establishment, then he may find praying offensive. I find praying offensive. Other customers may find it offensive, too. You don't have the honor of saying what everyone finds offensive.

Freedom of expression is covered by the first amendment. You're implying that the couple was "groping" or having sex in public, when NO ONE has claimed that. Not even Big Earl. He said he didn't know what they were doing, exactly. So, I'm afraid your logic fails. You continue to make things up to prove your point.

Let me say here, that even though I find praying offensive, I would stand up strongly for everyone's right to do it. I don't pick and choose what parts of the Constitution I support.

I'll have to assume that you support some offensive actions in public (like praying) and don't support others (like expressing fondness).

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
You have no idea, either. Stop pretending otherwise. If their behavior was offensive, as the owner claims, he has every right to ban them.

And, according to you, if the owner found praying offensive, he doesn't have the right the ban them. Yeah, I get your position. It's hypocritical.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Ah, but anyone that supports him is in the wrong, in your eyes?

I wouldn't say he's "wrong". I would say that he has the right to be bigoted. He has the right to ban them from his establishment. And I disagree with him.

Calling him a bigot is acceptable? That's been done in this thread, many times, by many people.

Yes, absolutely. It's acceptable, it's my right and it's what I think. His daughter called them "fags". She got that somewhere. He put that sign on his door for SOME reason. You bet I think he's a bigot.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I had a female friend, very into guys, who, after a seriously abusive marriage, switched to living with another woman for a time

Yeah we all know why that happens... one and relationship and some women claim they are lesbians. Homosexuality does not happen like that. It happens just the way how heterosexual people start liking the other sex.. around puberty(another proof that it is chemical).

Some people do just that

Not some, EVERYONE should be able to do that. sadly we all cant thus, it is not a choice. period.

From a purely scientific point of view, sex is designed for procreation. Attraction to the same sex is thus not the norm

Animal kingdom says otherwise. Homosexual behaviour is very norm. Just because someone is gay does not mean they can;t procreate, they just don't want to. Are people who doesn't want to have kids abnormal as well? since they have potential they just refuse to. Homosexuals germ cells works just as good as heterosexual germ cells.

Proof? Show your proof that it's genetic. For a LONG time, it was called behavioral/mental in the books, till lobbying changed that.

Proof is that it happens everywhere int he world and have been happening since early historic data. OCD, Depression, Schizophrenia and other mental disorders were use to be called Demon Possession LONG Time TOO!

Just because there is no direct genetic study(due to controversy) does not make the other correct.

Kids figuring out they have tendency to like the same sex during puberty is more than enough proof, because as a straight man, i started liking girls after puberty. that and the fact most of the population can't change their sexual preference on a day to day basis.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yeah i suck at analogy, never been my good point, i can understand just cant explain lol

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

I.

.

Those parades take place as a celebration of not only freedom of expression but in honour of those of us who marched against the establishment to afford us rights which were being denied.

thats not an excuse for degenerate behaviour in public.

If you don't like the odd "in your face" parade - don't watch.

you just resolved the issue of the op. If you dont like people who dont serve your type at their restaurants, dont go there and stop whining about not being accepted.

You can flaunt your vile hatred for others all you want, but you should be prepared for the good in people to come forth and take you down a notch - which they have many times

An opposing view isn't hate, You like many others are unable to deal with the subject in a rational way and instead resort to hot-headed drama (''vile hatred''? Really?) and appeals to emotion.