N.A.T.O Scrambles To Intercept Russian Jets in Lithuanian Air Space

originally posted by: TritonTaranis


Well the Crimea referendum was illegal... Tbh Russia should keeps its nose out off Ukraine's business and let Ukraine decided its own future

As for Crimea, a Legal UN backed referendum with international peace keepers and observers must take place for it to gold any credibility in the international community... The elections was without question rigged and illegitimate

Russia can buzz NATO all she likes tbh... Russia will just creat another arms race she cannot win

All in in all... I think the best way to deal with Russia is to let Russia sulk in the corner like a child

If what you're saying is your opinion, that's fine. If you're stating it as facts then it should be backed up with information. Otherwise all I'm reading is gossips.

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: TritonTaranis


Well the Crimea referendum was illegal... Tbh Russia should keeps its nose out off Ukraine's business and let Ukraine decided its own future

As for Crimea, a Legal UN backed referendum with international peace keepers and observers must take place for it to gold any credibility in the international community... The elections was without question rigged and illegitimate

Russia can buzz NATO all she likes tbh... Russia will just creat another arms race she cannot win

All in in all... I think the best way to deal with Russia is to let Russia sulk in the corner like a child

If what you're saying is your opinion, that's fine. If you're stating it as facts then it should be backed up with information. Otherwise all I'm reading is gossips.

The facts are it was illegal according to both the Constitution of Ukraine "Article 2 .The sovereignty of Ukraine extends throughout its entire territory. Ukraine is a unitary state. The territory of Ukraine within its present border is indivisible and inviolable." and the law of Ukraine Article 3.
" Referendum Subject
1. Referendum subject may be any issues except those whose solution referendum is not permitted by the Constitution of Ukraine , laws of Ukraine.
2. A national referendum may be imposed on some of the same problems.
3. According to the subject of national referendum may be:
1) the approval of the new Constitution of Ukraine amending the Constitution of Ukraine , cancellation, or termination of the invalidation of the law on amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine (constitutional referendum);
2) a change in Ukraine (ratification referendum);
3) to adopt or repeal of the law of Ukraine, or amendments to the existing law of Ukraine (legislative referendum);
4) with any matter other than those for which a referendum is not allowed under the Constitution of Ukraine (general referendum)."

a reply to: MrSpad

Apparently the Constitution of Ukraine is written this way exactly to prohibit any referendum by other ethnic groups. Therefore is biased as argument.

originally posted by: Telos
a reply to: MrSpad

Apparently the Constitution of Ukraine is written this way exactly to prohibit any referendum by other ethnic groups. Therefore is biased as argument.

Biased or not it does not change the the legaliity of them. With your aurgument Russia does not allow the ethnic groups in the Caucus region to vote themsleves independent thus Russian law is biased as an argument and its military crack down in that region was illegal. However that is not the case the law in Russia is the law and thus the Caucus region trying to break away is illegal allowing the Russian crack down. Just because you do not like another nations laws does not change the legality of them. That would be an opinion not a fact.

a reply to: the owlbear

and what?

If Russia wants to violate sovereign airspace then they should be shot down in the process - plain and simple.

Since you are about 8 years behind the times we have Obama in office, not Bush.

You should learn your facts before attempting to make an argument for something.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Is he really wanting NATO nations that border Russia to begin hosting NATO bases and military assets?

As long as they are spending money...than yes. He wants as much of the West spending as much as possible.

Moving military assets into NATO countries does not require anything more than being spent now. NATO forces are not independent of national military structures and are not separate military forces requiring new funding streams. Its a shift in military assets to new locations.

If Russia is wanting them to spend more money then they should probably understand how they currently spend money because with the suggestion you just made it would appear they are absolutely clueless.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
If Putin is torqued at NATO because of his self dreamed policy of former SSRs not being allowed to join NATO how does his idiotic actions, sending military assets into neighboring territory, help him out?

Because he still has the mindset of a Tsarist/Bolshevik/Prussian imperialist. He doesn't believe that those smaller nations count and deserve any opinion or agency of their own. Poland and Estonia? To this mindset, they are only pieces of property to be argued over by the big dogs.

Is he really wanting NATO nations that border Russia to begin hosting NATO bases and military assets?

I think Estonia and Poland could do with the 'retired' A-10's quite nicely.

If you listen to Russians, not just elite but ordinary conscripts, they ask "Why does NATO need to keep pushing to Russian borders?" This honestly frightens them and makes them suspicious.

The Russian mindset is an implied assumption of a central control and will driving things: The NATO Collective pushing and assimilating. Given this mindset, the Russian's fear is explained. Because it is how Stalin operated: there actually was an international Communist conspiracy which took orders from Moscow (though not all leftist movements were so). It's how Putin thinks, it's how Russians think the world works.

Europeans don't. All the eastern European nations joined NATO and EU because they wanted to. They have will and autonomy and agency of their own and they chose NATO and EU---because they experienced the USSR. NATO and EU have entrance standards, they are gatekeepers, not forcible assimilators.

Russians don't understand this or take responsibility for the historical facts which make this so.

a reply to: mbkennel

At least you understand what's going on... I wish more people did.

If this was the US flying jets over Russian airspace everyone on ats would be bashing the US but since it's Russia doing it people on ats make excuses.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: Vovin
Every day there's new video emerging of Ukrainian aircraft bombarding people in Eastern Ukraine.

There's talk of Russia enforcing a no-fly zone over east Ukraine.

I say do it. Break the spine of these genocidal war criminals! Their NATO-backed war crimes are well documented. NATO has zero legitimacy to disagree, especially after the so-called NFZ over Libya...

The Russian airforce would not be able to maintain a no fly zone for much beyond a couple weeks. The Russian airforce was a hot mess in Georgia and Ukraine has much better air defenses.

I remember the Russian airforce beating the crap out of Georgia and enforcing air supremacy almost immediately.

Losing one or two jets does not make your air tactics a failure.

And I'm damn sure the Ukrainian forces will stop attacking with Hinds when some Flankers wipe out a few of them.

Russia has full legitimacy, under previous precedents, to do this under the R2P doctrine.

originally posted by: Ancient Champion
If this was the US flying jets over Russian airspace everyone on ats would be bashing the US but since it's Russia doing it people on ats make excuses.

Let's recap these scenarios:

Russian aircraft over Lithuania, a country that borders Russia and was once part of the USSR.

US fighters over Russia, which is a superpower on the other side of the world which the US is trying to isolate economically and militarily.

There's a huge difference.

a reply to: Vovin

I love the lie you guys use with the isolate Russia economically and militarily. If it were possible the cold war would have ended a lot sooner than it did and we would not be having issues with Russia.

Since we are.....

Lithuania is a NATO member...

If Russia wants to keep playing with a knife she is going to get cut at some point and no amount of cold war lies the Soviet Union tried spinning is going to work a second time around.

Putin is doing nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Vovin

I love the lie you guys use with the isolate Russia economically and militarily. If it were possible the cold war would have ended a lot sooner than it did and we would not be having issues with Russia.

Since we are.....

Lithuania is a NATO member...

If Russia wants to keep playing with a knife she is going to get cut at some point and no amount of cold war lies the Soviet Union tried spinning is going to work a second time around.

Putin is doing nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.

I love you your analyses completely contradict the geopolitical strategy that your nation's geostrategists openly design.