TA-ANALYSIS: US Referral of Iran to Security Council Alone?

Originally posted by Sep

Originally posted by mwm1331
Wrong sep, do unto other before they get the chance to do unto you.
Your nation and others like it have brought this on yourselves, America aint gonna be the nice guy any more, either you do what we tell you to or you go back to the stone age.
Pax Americana.

You think Persia in its history didnt have the chance to dictate people. Their army of "immortals" were invincable. Cyrus the Great the founder of this country when got all his powers and went to Babylon, the people opened the doors for him, where he wrote the first decleration of human rights. But then slowly the kings got worst and worst, and by the end they were so corrupt that a small force was able to defeat their massive and simingly invincable army. The fact is that every country has had their high times, but nowhere at no time were the people of that country filled with as much hate as I see in some People of the US.

Ok..had to chime in here... the "immortals" were slaughtered once they encountered a real western force (i.e.: the Greeks...more accurately the Spartans). Cyrus never got over his humiliation at the hands of Greek city-states and Xerxes (sp?) got his million man force decimated when he tried the same stunts (although he paid Athens back eh?). Hate, you want to talk hate? The Persians hated in more cruel and barbaric ways than we can even imagine here in the states.

I do recall that the immortals (which always numbered 10,000 right?) were wiped out in the lower plains of Greece (forgot the name of the battle / plain right now..but it was just after the disaster at Thermopile).

In Persia�s defense they did have the largest standing army I�ve ever read about in ancient history. An amazing force second only to the Mongols. Their logistics were incredible, they did manage to conquer most of the eastern world before being stopped.

While king Xerxes had a lot to do with failure in the battles his army was relatively well-led. The biggest problem was that they had no heavy infantry that could match the Greeks. The Persian Empire also had very bad money policies which tended to stagnate things and necessitate the invasion of the west in the first place.

Also, it is probably very incorrect to cast any Persian king in a good light. None of them were very merciful dictators. The reason Babylon opened their doors for Cyrus is because they didn�t want to be skinned alive and set in cages in front of the next city as a warning (common practice at the time). Everyone was a slave except the king and humanity probably got set back several centuries by some of the barbarisms committed by the Persians.

And you know what? I�m all for Pax Americana. I can think of worse countries to have dominance over the world�I shudder to think of what a Pax China or Pax Russia or even Pax France would be like.

The leaders of the US finally woke up to the fact that the only path to peace is to conquer everyone who disagree with us.

I don't think so. I don't know where these statements are coming from but I respectfully request that you represent them as your own opinions, not the opinions of "the leaders of the US".

If the question is "could the US conquer everyone who disagrees?" well you can debate that until you're the blue in the face, and I'm not interested in playing "my ___'s bigger than your ____" like the last 10 or 15 posts in this thread were doing.

What I don't understand is why bother entertaining concepts that will not happen. People LOVE to blow conflicts out of proportion and neglect to realize that the US has very good relationships, diplomaticaly, economically, and culturally with many other nations. Blow up Kuwait? I don't understand.

You are speaking for yourself only. The government of the United States has no interest in "taking over the world", and very simply does not have the capability to either accomplish that goal or maintain it. It's not even worth discussing. It's been tried before remember? Where are those civilizations now? Two millenia ago it was damn near impossible. Now? Forget it. Even the most ultra patriotic American with the pledge tattooed on his forehead would admit that you are simply blowing smoke. My only question is for what purpose.

Conquer, kill, whats the difference?
The fact is unfortunately the US is on a path to conquest, and just like earlier empires it will be bloody and brutal. We are seeing the first stages now.
We dont have to occupy land to conquer, a ring of orbiting satelites with the "rods from god" would be a great stick. Or nukes, or chem.
One day soon (at least in historical terms) The entre world will either have been destroyed or conqured by us or an ally.
Sad but true.

Originally posted by MrNice
Also, it is probably very incorrect to cast any Persian king in a good light. None of them were very merciful dictators. The reason Babylon opened their doors for Cyrus is because they didn�t want to be skinned alive and set in cages in front of the next city as a warning (common practice at the time). Everyone was a slave except the king and humanity probably got set back several centuries by some of the barbarisms committed by the Persians.

I will respect your post (many problems in it) but since you are not a Persian or a Greek I admire the fact that you have studied the history. This last part though made my blood boil. Cyrus is an admired king by all. In the Bible he is mentioned as the Shepered of the lord. He abolished slavary (first king to do so) And no the babylonians were not scared of him. If they were they were the bigger empire and they were at home. The could have defeated Cyrus but they knew he was their saviour so they opened the unbreechable gates to his army. During his time he created the biggest empire with the least blood shed. His proceder Darush the Great created the first succesfull usage of coin. He created the first posting system and his moto is used by the American post today. He created a huge library and a magnificant palace where the Greeks, the Egytions, the perisans and evry other civilizaions arts were celebrated. (this was later burned by the Greeks including the library because they were drunk at the time). So while I do respect you studies please never ever disrepect a king like Cyrus with out studying more about him and his gentle culture.

Originally posted by MrNice
Ok..had to chime in here... the "immortals" were slaughtered once they encountered a real western force (i.e.: the Greeks...more accurately the Spartans). Cyrus never got over his humiliation at the hands of Greek city-states and Xerxes (sp?) got his million man force decimated when he tried the same stunts (although he paid Athens back eh?). Hate, you want to talk hate? The Persians hated in more cruel and barbaric ways than we can even imagine here in the states.

I do recall that the immortals (which always numbered 10,000 right?) were wiped out in the lower plains of Greece (forgot the name of the battle / plain right now..but it was just after the disaster at Thermopile).

Now to correct a few things (no disrespect) Cyrus never fought the Greeks. The immortals were never slaughtered. I believe you are refering to the 300 spartans who were led by some one called ledolas or something. Each spartan has 6 aids. So the real number is 1800. The Spartans went between the mountains and waited for the Persian to come. When they came there was a bottle whole so the Arabs were sent in first. They were slaughtered. Then the immoratl went in. They wore no armour but still managed to defeat the heavily armoured greeks. And you spoke of Xerxes. His army was close tto 70,000 men. And if by dominated you mean he defeated Athens then that is also true. He defeated the Spartans and marched to Athens. This was all done because of the Greek supported revoult in the Persian owned islands.
Now you said the Persian hated in more cruel and bararic ways than you can imagine in the US. Please do elaborate. The jews loved the Cyrus and Daruis. The babylonians loved them. The Medians loved them and even the Greek kind Alexandra respected Cyrus. And for you last sentence I explained above. It was in thermopoli and there the immortals wiped out the Spartans although they fought very bravly.

the total number ogf GREEK allies was more than 1800 men But thier were only 600 hundred spartan's there. the aids as you refered to them were slaves. ans all thou some may have been warriors before thier enslave ment, most were not. they were trained as archers and by spartan law couls not wear armor or carry swords. And they and I believe the thespians[?] decimated the immortals on the last day at the pass before they were inturn killed by archers[to avoid fruther losses to persian troops.the perian levies wore no armor and the immortals very light armor. but all this has nothing to do with this post.
if the us wants to goit alone,, well it woll lead to our undoing. Yea we can control space maybe even keep our borders safe. But to "save the world" as it looks as if we want to do. We need the whole p;anet to work together . Maybe we should concider a compermise.We don't have all the right idea's. We should listen to everyone and work together.
So what if iran has nukes. We should use words, logic to convince others that NO ONE needs them. Just because we are bigger and stronger don't mean we have the right to tell others that we are right and they are wrong.[does bully wring a bell.] And as for giving nukes to terrorists look at Russia they have "lost"more nuclear material than iran can make for quite a while.
PAx America,,, Pax Persia,,, no get it right Pax Terra

Originally posted by mwm1331
Screw sanctons I say we just start bombing them. Dont send in any ground troops, dont worry about reconstructon, just bomb and building in the country taller than one story, and obliterate the infrastucture, oil fields, power generators, TV towers, radio towers, everything. Take out all the airports, all the jets, all the planes, all the cars, and just dont let anyone in or out for 5-10 years. Destroy any vestige of modern technology, seal tghe borders and let them live like thier ancestors for a decade or so. Then when we finaaly allow them to start rebuilding they wont be quite so twitchy.

You need locking up, are people like you allowed out on the streets? You seem to have all the traits of a terrorist.

Iran has done nothing wrong and certainly do not deserve bombing. If the US decides to attack Iran, revenge will take place sometime in the future, as the attack is unprovoced. The revenge would be well deserved.

Originally posted by mwm1331
You really think Bush aint gonna take down the saudis?
Your not too quick on the uptake are ya?
You dont yet get it.
The whole middle east is the target, all countries, not just the trouble makers.
Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait.
Few more years we will have troops in every country in that region.

I don't think Bush will go after Kuwait or Egypt but I agree that the others wil likely be targets.

One of Arabic forum I visit has a user with this sig:


I think it's needs updating and Syria needs to be added but otherwise, it is probably a fair prediction of what's going to happen.

I don't agree with it and I hope there is no war with Iran but I think the Bush amin already has their mind made up.

The same trait that gave ceaser the abillity to crown himself emporer is the same trait that made his buddy brutus stab him. Bush has it. The abillity to use conquest, couched in patriotism to build an empire. When the romans went to war against the gauls and the germanic tribes it wasn't to steal thier land or increase the size of thier nation but to defend against the barbarians while at the same time bringing them the enlightened roman civilisation. Sound familiar?
The war drums are beating in the American chest, the time has come again as it does every single generation when there must be a war.
Every 20 years we go to war, sometimes its embarassing and hated as in Vietnam sometimes its grand and noble as in ww2 but every 20 years give or take we have a war. It is a part of the american psyche. We conquered this land we didn't discover it. The last war persian gulf 1 was in some ways visceral perfection but in the end not long bloddy or brutal enough to satisfy this addiction.
Bush understands this even better than his father did.
The war drums are beating, America is stirring out of its complacent slumber, and plowshares are being beaten into swords.
We should all be afraid, the war god is being fed and he cares not who he trods upon.
Pax Americana

Originally posted by mwm1331
The same trait that gave ceaser the abillity to crown himself emporer is the same trait that made his buddy brutus stab him. Bush has it. The abillity to use conquest, couched in patriotism to build an empire. When the romans went to war against the gauls and the germanic tribes it wasn't to steal thier land or increase the size of thier nation but to defend against the barbarians while at the same time bringing them the enlightened roman civilisation. Sound familiar?

Barbarians? What makes them Barbarians? How many Iranians have you met? How many times have you been to Iran? If you havent done any of these things you are in no place to judge Iran and Iranians. If I were you I would read more about Iran, their culture, their history or try to meet a few of them before refering to them as barbarians.

The German tribes were unprovoked and they attacked Rome for no reason. And Rome had the right to fight back. But Iran has not invaded the US. The better analogy would be the Roman-Parthian wars.

Originally posted by mwm1331
The war drums are beating in the American chest, the time has come again as it does every single generation when there must be a war.
Every 20 years we go to war, sometimes its embarassing and hated as in Vietnam sometimes its grand and noble as in ww2 but every 20 years give or take we have a war. It is a part of the american psyche. We conquered this land we didn't discover it. The last war persian gulf 1 was in some ways visceral perfection but in the end not long bloddy or brutal enough to satisfy this addiction.

I dont know where you are getting all these from. I meet many people from many countries but none of them share your opinion. WW2 was not noble and grand and you wouldnt think it was noble and grand if you acctually fought in it.

You mentioned it is human nature to fight and it is an addiction. Nothing could be further from the truth. people of all nations proclaim not only their readiness but their longing for peace and harmony, for an end to the harrowing apprehensions tormenting their daily lives. They showed this in the demonstration all across the world before the war in Iraq. They showed this in many nations including Iran after 9/11. People dont want violence any more. The human values, just like its physical mental and emotional attributes, has evolved. They no longer want a huge country over dead people. People desire wold peace and it will be achived. THIS is inevitable.




[edit on 2-12-2004 by Sep]

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Sep]

Sep it doesn't matter what iranians are like, they fufill the role of barbarians because they're different.
They don't live like us and don't even want to.
And thats the real reason for the war.

Sep, Americans for the most part aint like other people, we do crave war. We don't like to admit it but its true.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Sep, Americans for the most part aint like other people, we do crave war. We don't like to admit it but its true.

I would answer you but I will let the real Americans do that.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Sep it doesn't matter what iranians are like, they fufill the role of barbarians because they're different.
They don't live like us and don't even want to.
And thats the real reason for the war.

The Iranians arent like you so they are barberians? There are many other cultures on the planet, the Chinese, the Indian, the Canadia etc... would you consider the barbarians? How about the French? You can never make everyone he same. That was what communism tried to do and it failed misrably. That was what Hitler thought he could do, but coulnt. Thats what the Romans tried to do but the failed again. The fact is that people are diffrent the best we can do is learn to respect eachother and hopfully try to live in peace.

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Sep]

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Sep]

Exactly Sep and thats why America will always have someone to go to war with. Because the only people safe from America are Americans.
This isn't about you or me ou our views, this is what america does. Why do you think we spend more on weapons than the closest 3 nations combined?
I got nothing against iranians, but I can can see America girding for war and I know damn well nothing is gonna stop it. Best I can do is try to find a way to at least survive and at best thrive.

48% of the worlds military expendidure takes place in the US. So its llike the next 20 countries combined.

You said nothing is going to stop it. Thats where you are wrong. The beauty of democracy is that people are incharge. If the Americans want to stop a war they can. They stopped Vietnam whats so diffrent about Iran? If the people of US combine and decide they want no war, then there is not going to be a war. But there is also a bad side to democracy. Every single American is responsible for their country's actions. Every single person killed is killed because of American people. That is a great responsibility. Now it is just the question of whether they are going to use their power or sit back and watch their fellow man die.

well with God on our side here in England, and with England sitting back and letting the gruntish 'rebellious colonies' do the dirty work, it all seems good from where i'm sitting.

look mamma, i can bs with rest of 'em. at this point in time, i really couldn't care less what happens to anyone, anywhere, for whatever reason.

look, an ant! omg it's red... OMG its red! it's obviously plotting the demise of the united states of america. impose sanctions on it immediately. laugh.

If the Americans want to stop a war they can.

You havent been listening have you?

Hi,
Iran is one of the countries of the world that is depicted in the western societies' media only through what seems to be the obvious and dismal reality of such country. Current headlines warning about Iranian nuclear programme, the president who is making outrageous statements on daily basis causing fear to those living in democratic societies are mostly why such a small number of people is trying to dig bellow the surface and learn more about Iran. Ban put on all the social networks thus preventing people to connect and share thoughts and opinions, no freedom of information nor speech are keeping youth of Iran in a strange kind of vacuum. If you want to learn more about Censorship in Iran and how it effects their society, if you are interested in hearing a different kind of voice talking about Iran and Iranians, you should read The Age of Nepotism, the book by Vahid razavi, or visit the site www.theageofnepotism.com