Michael Moore comments on the latest American shooting.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Its not about trying to take your guns away, everyone knows you are far too attahced to them for that. The problem is access by those who shouldnt have access. Of course any implement or weeapon handled properly and safely will not cause any harm, but when you allow an instrument of harm to be accessible by those with unsound mind then this is what eventuates.

Your view sounds almost frontier like, where firearms are a neccesity, but we dont live in the frontier, the main reason people in modern society need guns is to protect themselves from otehr people with guns, sure, anyone can get a knife and go on a syabbing rampage, but its much easier to point and click and takes far less conviction and effort and then you've got a full clip woth of bodies. Youve got a lot more chance taking someone down with a knife than a gun if you are unarmed

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

I disagree categorically and outright.

I am clinging to the last vestages of healthy gun culture where experienced men inducted the young into safety and self responsibility.

See all my previous posts on self responsibility unless you just choose to ignore them of course.

This isn't about how well tailored the clothes from the libtard crown are, or how comfortable one all feels with such enlightened gentle handedness, it's about ARMAMENTS. Some of us are more than qualified. If you are not here to discuss safety get off the firing range!

I don't disagree but only some are qualified not all as you agree. I think along with gaining your license you should have mandatory training for a while before being granted the license, then regular practice be mandatory throughout the year either logged at a gun club or with local law enforcement. But the key is safely keeping your guns locked away at home and out of the reach of minors or anyone who is not licensed to use a firearm. Have nationwide conceal carry and have the responsible gun owners walking about with them.

originally posted by: BeReasonable
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Its not about trying to take your guns away, everyone knows you are far too attahced to them for that. The problem is access by those who shouldnt have access. Of course any implement or weeapon handled properly and safely will not cause any harm, but when you allow an instrument of harm to be accessible by those with unsound mind then this is what eventuates.

Back when everyone had a Priest this was under control. But you told us all religion was bad, and then introduced psychology, and the new high priests of mental faculty, thinking that we couldn't see the obvious. New religion, different robes. And now with the categorical failure of all liberal demesnes, the bankrupting of democratic Detroit, the shattering of the extended family, and the total confounding of all education, you have the goddamn chutzpah to claim that if we would just come to our sense and let you sit in judgement of what a sound mind is.... Reprehensible seems more appropriate than merely to call it hypocracy.

originally posted by: BeReasonable
Your view sounds almost frontier like, where firearms are a neccesity, but we dont live in the frontier, the main reason people in modern society need guns is to protect themselves from otehr people with guns, sure, anyone can get a knife and go on a syabbing rampage, but its much easier to point and click and takes far less conviction and effort and then you've got a full clip woth of bodies. Youve got a lot more chance taking someone down with a knife than a gun if you are unarmed

See, I think the big misunderstanding is that
the spate of arms sales in this country
have been more of a financial counter
move to the markets, than an open
rebellion type move.

In 2008 people who though about
going off-the-grid and purchased a
firearm, found in 2010 it had
appreciated better than anything
else except gold.

From 2010 to 2012 it moved to
lead. Bullets, became a secondary
market almost like the old silver
economy that used to exist below
and separate from the markets.



It's not personal,
it's just business.







Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mclarenmp4

I don't disagree but only some are qualified not all as you agree. I think along with gaining your license you should have mandatory training for a while before being granted the license, then regular practice be mandatory throughout the year either logged at a gun club or with local law enforcement. But the key is safely keeping your guns locked away at home and out of the reach of minors or anyone who is not licensed to use a firearm. Have nationwide conceal carry and have the responsible gun owners walking about with them.

That's a lot of hand waving right there.

It's not about telling me "the key is safely keeping your guns locked"

"the key is safely keeping your guns locked"

"the key is safely keeping"

"the key is"


No it's not.
It is not a key.
It's a civic duty.




It's a friggin civic duty .... (string of profanities redacted) ...






There used to be Boxing and Riflery classes in the schools,
but the dep of Ed took them out.
Reason given: we don't want all that violence near our children.

Funny thing, no one was shooting up schools when they had their own rifle teams,
and no one was being bullied in the halls when you could "Take it to the ring".





The matrix has you Neo.
You are a slave.







And speaking of business...

Who has the moral authority to issue a credit rating,
in this country.

Is it the Banks?
The banks that went default.
The banks that had to steal trillions from the public to pay their bills.
are THEY the ones' who have the moral authority to issue credit ratings.

Or is it the omg-they-have-too-many-guns conspiracy thinkers.





Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Yes but the civic duty is not happening is it? So you can batter on about civic duty until your blue in the teeth but it won't change the fact that people aren't maintaining their civic duty so how do you make people accountable?
I'm with you I think a citizen who is responsibly trained and someone who takes pride in their civic duty are the best people to have firearms but there are people who are not like that so you have to deter them from making a mistake. You can only do that by legislating it, if you are the gun owner who allows their child to kill another then you send a strong message that you will be punished severely so that people take their civic responsibilities seriously.

I also agree that kids should be trained and educated in those same civic duties from an early age.

Also I have never once said that guns should be taken away, the only time I have advocated that is in the illegal gun market.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Yes but the civic duty is not happening is it? So you can batter on about civic duty until your blue in the teeth but it won't change the fact that people aren't maintaining their civic duty so how do you make people accountable?
I'm with you I think a citizen who is responsibly trained and someone who takes pride in their civic duty are the best people to have firearms but there are people who are not like that so you have to deter them from making a mistake. You can only do that by legislating it, if you are the gun owner who allows their child to kill another then you send a strong message that you will be punished severely so that people take their civic responsibilities seriously.

I also agree that kids should be trained and educated in those same civic duties from an early age.

Also I have never once said that guns should be taken away, the only time I have advocated that is in the illegal gun market.

But it would be the same goddamn bankers behind the moral authority to do all that.
















Who has the moral authority ... in this Country?

Is it the nexus of insurance companies and Government who have destroyed our doctors,
over the past forty years,
so that now they can sell us a universal medical solution,
all in the shadow of pillaging our pensions,
and veteran benefits.

Is it the credit card companies and their so-called credit ratings?
Who received trillions in bail out money,
because they over gambled with their financial investments.

Or is it the person vilified on TV every day.
The lone ex-military male.
The one with weapon training,
a bad credit rating,
no family doctor.


I mean really. I was diverted from space architecture for this? Shut the # up. Let the grown ups do the talking from now on.


Mike Grouchy

I apologize.

That was too harsh, and not aimed at you.

I'm sorry.

I think you are a neat member. I have the drawback of attacking those I love the hardest.

Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
How far back do these incidents go? I don't recall these kinds of mass shootings in the 60's or 70's (sorry, can't go earlier than that since I wasn't alive). It all seems to have started with postal workers shooting up post offices in the 80's. That's where the term "going postal" comes from. It wasn't until the turn of the century that kids started shooting up schools.

The point is, it's not gun control that's going to fix this problem. America has been armed for over 200 years. So what is it? I say, to a large degree, it's bad parenting. Second, there's too much news coverage providing 15 minutes of fame. Third, we used to put crazy people into institutions but now just give them meds which they forget to take.

The only one, that I can recall in the 70's, was the shooting at Penn State, Ohio. I do remember a time when going to school was considered the safest place a child could be. Now it's a danger zone. A place for predators, or random gunmen to enter and kill children. Our country has changed, and it has nothing to do with gun ownership.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

You need help my friend, your looking through a star spangled blinfold.

We will never address the real issues of why gun violence as escalated among our citizens, since the 90's. It's kind of like addressing health care, without tackling why health care costs are so high to begin with.

We have to look at where we have evolved as a society... the anti depressants, anti psychotics, the psychiatry being used, how the mental health system leaves people to fall into the cracks. We must look at what these medications do to the mind, the damage, and how it changes a person. We must look at the culture of death that has been created for young people, from anywhere in games, music, videos, fashion, and so on. This is a multi faceted problem, but all we can do is throw our hands up and scream that it's the guns. It's not the guns.

Let's say we get up tomorrow and take all the guns away. Okay. Guns are gone. We are completely disarmed as a society.

Now, let's say we have another psychopath on our hands, who wants to kill a massive amount of people at once. He doesn't have a gun, so what can he do? Well, he could mow down groups of people with a car. He could implement an IUD and set it off in a crowded place. He could find a way to poison gas a large population. I could go on, but you get the point. Taking guns is not going to stop violence. It's not going to stop psychopathy, or anything else. We have to address the real issues, and until we do, it's only going to get worse from here.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
a reply to: mikegrouchy

You need help my friend, your looking through a star spangled blinfold.

I may require help, but that doesn't make me wrong.











As to my eyes, I oversaw the deployment of some of my recent eyes live when it happened. What were you doing on that day. Chasing another media driven topic?

a reply to: g146541

What agenda do I have then master mind? I suppose your going to rant that i am a NSA troll trying to convince everyone to give up their guns.
I don't expect any American to give up their guns, it has gone too far for that and the amount of illegal weapons in the US would not allow for such a thing anyway. I do have an opinion though of which I am entitled, that is more control on WHO gets weapons. Yes I know he killed with a knife first and you can't ban knifes, that would be unrealistic but it is not unrealistic to stop people with documented or known mental illness to get legal weapons as a starting point.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I see your point that it's backing the true constitutionalists into a corner but nothing I am suggesting has anything to do with taking away guns or the ability of people to own them.
Just make people responsible for the safety of their own legal firearms and like this recent shooting which I haven't actually followed apart from MM's comments but if it was his parents guns then the law should be charging them as accomplices to each murder.
Just send a clear message that you will be accountable for your guns and will be sent to prison for a long time if not.
The only restriction I have suggested is to restrict gun licenses to people with a criminal history of violence and the mentally ill.
And even with those you could have a time limit where they can be reassessed at a later time, as people can change and some mentally ill people who have had depression might not have it long term.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I would prefer a sound mind over muscles anyday, fortunately for me I am blessed with both. You can take your glasses off now.

originally posted by: Eryiedes



I have a more realisitic goal for how Micheal Moore can become a better person.
He should start by losing some weight so he doesn't take up two seats whenever he flies...how about that?
It might lower that "carbon footprint" he seems to be so worried about.
Just a thought...

-Peace-

Hey wait a minute, I don't want him to get all healthy and live to 100 as we listen to this buffoon for the next 50 years. With that said I think we should all chip in on a pallet of hohos to send to him.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: mikegrouchy

I see your point that it's backing the true constitutionalists into a corner but nothing I am suggesting has anything to do with taking away guns or the ability of people to own them.
Just make people responsible for the safety of their own legal firearms and like this recent shooting which I haven't actually followed apart from MM's comments but if it was his parents guns then the law should be charging them as accomplices to each murder.
Just send a clear message that you will be accountable for your guns and will be sent to prison for a long time if not.
The only restriction I have suggested is to restrict gun licenses to people with a criminal history of violence and the mentally ill.
And even with those you could have a time limit where they can be reassessed at a later time, as people can change and some mentally ill people who have had depression might not have it long term.

Not bad. I would only say we are unbalancing our childrens' minds by _not_ satisfying their curiosity about armaments. In my experience people will really pay-attention and enjoy following-the-rules if, at the end of the class, they get to handle a firearm.

Say a youngster at a sidewalk café finds a piece laying out. I would want them to know not to approach it already. To get a grown up first. And be self possessed enough to do just that.

I'm done with living in a country where random jack holes accidently discharge indoors. Sometimes going through walls. It is a civic duty. Everyone should have to learn and fire at least once in their life. If there are special cases that require more instructors even then, our science has advanced far enough to where anyone should be able to shoot if they want to. No matter how the state judges their competency. Anyone can be taught anything ... as long as they are taught in the right way.

By the way. All that money the department of education has been getting for all those years since it took boxing and riflery out of the schools .... where does that money go?


Mike Grouchy

It really seems like Moore is the typical stupid ignorant American that he supposedly seeks to oppose/expose/make famous/whatever

He seems to think Americans are so special and unique in their violence. That the rest of the world is some sort of paradise where everyone sits around wondering how Americans survive long enough to reach their shores to kill them.

He also talks about American greed and waste and overconsumption, yet his body proves he's guilty of it too. Few things worse than a hypocrite.

He is just so incredibly ignorant he can't see past his own snout, he continues to blame objects for actions. I wonder if he blames cheeseburgers for making him such a fat slob too?

Just like those who seek to uphold drug prohibition, they are stubborn, proven wrong repeatedly, yet they continually attack those that think differently. Gun laws do NOT WORK PERIOD. And even if they did, it's not right to deprive hundreds of millions of the right to defense because of the possible actions of a few.

We need to figure out why people are so friggin nutty. There have always been violent people and criminals, but it seems like today every other person is a damn psychopath. Total lack of empathy, supreme arrogance and narcissism, traits most anti-gun zealots seem to have as well.

People were bringing guns to school for gun clubs within living memory and this crap was not happening. What's changed? The guns have NOT changed. So WHY on earth do fools keep focusing on guns!! When public opinion was that guns were good, this stuff did not happen. That is a cold hard fact. Now that there is such a strong anti-gun movement, now and only now do we see this extreme random violence.

Somethings changed. But the guns haven't. They have quite literally sat there unchanged in many cases for 100 years.

If anybody truly actually cares about these kids dying in schools, and people getting shot up in public places, they will try to figure out why PEOPLE are doing these things. We need to stop doing whatever is causing this type of behavior to manifest itself. Why are fools like moore so against that? Instead he focuses on the tools of the madman not the madman himself. What next, is the type of car driven by murderers going to mean something? New study shows 87% of murderers own at least one car and use cars frequently. Cars are now banned in an attempt to stop murderers from being murderers.

If someone wants to kill, not having a gun won't stop them. If someone wants to kill, not having a car won't stop them. Not having a car might make it more difficult for a killer to transport himself to the victim. Not having a gun might make it a little more difficult for the killer to accomplish his goal. But neither are going to stop the killer from being a killer. Oh yeah, and taking away guns also hurts millions of people who want to defend themselves.... so there's that....

The most dangerous,
value appreciated
weapon of USA
is the lever
action
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0b42b7a5da86.png[/atsimg]
For the
avid gun owning American, The anti
automatic rifle laws have a very
significant cut off date.

One that leaves the Winchester
lever action repeating riffle as the
single best remaining non-banned
high rate of fire military weapon
available in the US.

Winchester 1873 in .38

$2,199.99

And it's a very decent resell investment.





Which one of the current monstrosities of
so-called gun laws, are negatively affecting
this nations economy, or potentially have
the forecasted chance to detrimentally hit
the economy, inhibiting production, and
casting aspersion upon the culture instead
of educating the public.

Why is there always money to do the wrong thing?


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

You make an excellent point about the kids, if you keep it as a taboo then the curiosity only increases but if that kid was taught and was around them more frequently then the mystery is removed from it. I wouldn't say it unbalances the mind because if that was the case the rest of the world would have the same problem but with the access to firearms you currently have then it makes absolute sense to remove the curiosity and get them to respect the weapon from an early age.
Also boxing at school is a great idea, it's a great way to release the built up testosterone that teenagers have and there's a lot of respect towards your opponent which is not a bad trait to be instilling in teenagers.
Great points and why not give it a go because the way it's going I fear these type of events are only going to increase.

a reply to: bellagirl

You're 90% claim is totally false by the way. There are people calling for those laws, but that is BECAUSE they live in fear. And that fear is induced by the government harping on the gun issue. I'm not going to debate you on guns, and how they save way more lifes than they take away, and how it reduces crime, it has been done in length (and settled in 1775).

And Micheal Moore is a complete and total tool for the establishment, totally sold out to the NWO. No need to even give any credence to anything this fat # says