2014 Crude death rate. Why isn't the USA at the top of the list with all our guns

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: alienjuggalo

23rd. What is your point?

So you guys are older but shouldn't all the gun deaths here and lack of gun deaths there balance it out?


When I looked at the lsit I fully expected to see the USA close to the top. I only decided to start the thread when I realized so many developed countries were above the USA.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

Only if you are suggesting that guns kill more people than old age/disease. Even in the USA that is never going to be the case!

You can't look at the overall death rate and try to isolate trends caused by guns. It will get lost in the noise.

a reply to: Rob48

Lol those pictures obviously show specialized police units which are sent to deal with extreme situations, average law enforcement officers in the UK do not carry around guns, let alone assault rifles. Don't use deceptive tactics if you're going to make an argument.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Rob48

Lol those pictures obviously show specialized police units which are sent to deal with extreme situations, average law enforcement officers in the UK do not carry around guns, let alone assault rifles. Don't use deceptive tactics if you're going to make an argument.

As others have said, armed police are not an uncommon sight in the UK. I should know, I live here. Working in London I see police with guns at least once a week.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

Do you have any idea what a small percentage of total deaths in the USA are caused by firearms? Why should you expect it to distort the whole death rate?

Guns are, however, the second biggest cause of death among people in their late teens and early twenties.

Seems according to this list, the gaza strip is one of the safest places on the planet....lol

a reply to: alienjuggalo

The total number of gun deaths over the total american population is infinitesimal and the same as it is in the UK so really they make for such small numbers as to be statistically irrelevant in such a statistic

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Do you have any idea what a small percentage of total deaths in the USA are caused by firearms? Why should you expect it to distort the whole death rate?

Guns are, however, the second biggest cause of death among people in their late teens and early twenties.

If guns are the 2nd leading cause of death among a whole demographic here surely it would effect the crude death rate.

I heard someone call us "Murdermerica" earlier today. Its an ignorant stereotype considering the murder rate in America is no where near the highest. America has a murder rate of 4.8. Russia, 9.7. The highest on the list has a murder rate of 91.6.

The United States ranks 105 out of 206. Relatively speaking, that's not bad.

Homicide Rates

originally posted by: greavsie1971
So, according to these figures, Italy is worse than North Korea?

Italy has a homicide rate of 0.9. North Korea has a homicide rate of 15.2.

Wherever you heard Italy is worse than NK is wrong.

wow
quite a few countries on that list have had their control systems destroyed by nato invasion or covert action,
which is not a vindication of the US.
quite the opposite

originally posted by: alienjuggalo

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Do you have any idea what a small percentage of total deaths in the USA are caused by firearms? Why should you expect it to distort the whole death rate?

Guns are, however, the second biggest cause of death among people in their late teens and early twenties.

If guns are the 2nd leading cause of death among a whole demographic here surely it would effect the crude death rate.

No, because how many people in their teens and 20s die each year compared to those in their 70s and 80s? Very few. So it is a large proportion of a small number.

Firearms don't even come in the top 15 of all causes of death in the USA overall. In 2010 there were 31,672 firearm deaths in the USA. That is about 1.3% of all deaths.

Why ever would you expect that to show up in global death rate figures? It makes no sense.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: greavsie1971
Cops do have guns in the UK.

The only place in the UK where cops carry guns is Northern Ireland. And I can see the OP's link just fine.

EDIT: and looking at the list it is quite amazing actually. The United States is #95 on the list, with other 1st world nations such as Sweden, Japan, the UK, Italy, France, Spain, and Russia having higher crude death rates.

'Armed response units' have firearms stored in the trunk of the car in the UK. (police cars)

That list does not make sense to me.

Assuming an average life expectancy of 80 years, then 1.25% of the population or 12.5 people per thousand should die of old age every year.

So how do countries end up at 3 per thousand. That is nonsensical! Many first world countries have an aging population and those should be much higher than 12.5.

I would not take much notice of those stats without seeing how they are created.

P

a reply to: Rob48

Firearms don't even come in the top 15 of all causes of death in the USA overall. In 2010 there were 31,672 firearm deaths in the USA. That is about 1.3% of all deaths.

So basically you are saying that guns are not that big of a problem here. My point exactly

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Do you have any idea what a small percentage of total deaths in the USA are caused by firearms? Why should you expect it to distort the whole death rate?

Guns are, however, the second biggest cause of death among people in their late teens and early twenties.

Really? And where did you get that chart? CDC lists things differently....

CDC

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: alienjuggalo

Do you have any idea what a small percentage of total deaths in the USA are caused by firearms? Why should you expect it to distort the whole death rate?

Guns are, however, the second biggest cause of death among people in their late teens and early twenties.

Really? And where did you get that chart? CDC lists things differently....

CDC

That CDC link just lists "homicide" as the second largest killer for that age group. It doesn't break it down by method, but I think it is fair to assume that guns are used in a large proportion of homicides among that age group, don't you?

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Rob48

Firearms don't even come in the top 15 of all causes of death in the USA overall. In 2010 there were 31,672 firearm deaths in the USA. That is about 1.3% of all deaths.

So basically you are saying that guns are not that big of a problem here. My point exactly

No, I am saying that if you compare 30,000+ deaths from guns per year with a couple of million deaths overall, it is not going to show up as statistically significant.

But if you compare 30,000+ deaths from guns per year in the US to about 50 per year in the UK, that is significant.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

The government is only after your guns bec ause they pose a threat to the government itself. All governments are totally self protecting and unaccountable. Once in the echelons of power, they cling and cling.

One of the most dangerous weapons use to be the pipe bombs that could be trolleyed around and simply aimed. The IRA were demons at this.

The UK has a lot of guns because farmers get licenses to shoot vermin etc. That does not include the number of illegal ones on the street.

Its a sad thing, but in the 1950's a Judge told an offender "Englishment don't carry knives". Were England what it onc e was!

a reply to: alienjuggalo

Seriously, if you want to compare gun deaths in the US with gun deaths in the UK, why not do that? Why compare death rates from all causes instead?

If you did, you would see that even once you factor in the larger population of the USA, there are still more than 100 times more gun-related deaths per head in the USA than in the UK.

I know the US has a gun culture and the UK doesn't. Fine. I'm not trying to argue that guns should be banned.

But it is a simple fact that if you want the freedom to carry guns then you also have to accept that you are more likely to be shot. There's no point massaging the stats to try and hide that.