Would discussion be better without "Shill" type posters???

Every thread that has to do with any major conspiracy has the same brand of posters who run in packs basically - abruptly discrediting sources and then turning on those who keep an open mind on certain subjects. It's not even a discussion as these types of posters only see one side - their side - and thinking otherwise will end up in personal attacks, as if that's their motive - then discussion is stopped and the thread is deemed out of control.

I'm all for hearing every side and every option as that is how a healthy discourse should conduct. But the tactics I see on display here are far from productive. In fact, they only want you to think one way - their way. Generally, most people post a thread as an idea to discuss and every, single, fraggle-rockin' time these know-it-alls come in and destroy the thread. Maybe there is a board where this bullying isn't allowed - because it snowballs, in every thread and then it's basically over. They have official sourcing and all we're concerned about is questioning just that. We know the official responses - what's wrong with asking "what if???"

Does anyone else feel this way or notice this?

No they annoy and try to debunk but so do many whom are not shil so let them be, they serve to invigorate debate as well as when they become a fixture hilight by there attack's on given subject's what is sensative and there opposite number's whom have identified them take note so no discussion is better with them even though you feel like taking a sweaty sock and shoving down there throat's sometime's, also sometime's they are right.
So no it is better with them.

a reply to: cestrup

Why does the truth care about shills?

I just posted this in another thread about the same thing, less than 5 mins ago:

originally posted by: skyblueworld
The "noisy negativists" here all sing from the same hymn sheet, well most anyway.
It's a part of the ATS experience in my opinion whether it's good or not.

But to all future OP's, please don't be put of by this groundhog day style attacks on threads, because nobody can ever make you feel average without your permission.

When you see these telling signs:

1.) Don't bother us with the facts, our minds are made up.

2.)If we can't attack the data, we will attack the people; it is much easier.

3.) Do one's research by proclamation, rather than investigation. It is much easier and most people won't know the difference.

You know you're onto something

Other thread

a reply to: LABTECH767

Sure, you make some good points (lol @ the sweaty sock). Oh, loved your work on the seismic readings in the bedrock below WTC 7. I think that was you at least. It was definitely a "Labtech"

constantly notice this. and i'm a recently new member. joined this site because i thought we were all pretty like minded here. open to almost anything. i mean this is a conspiracy site after all. but the amount of backlash some people get for posting, for example paranormal related articles is crazy. story about ghosts? bull#! story about reincarnation? bull#! story about possession? bull#! and those are all things that i have personal experience with first hand, so sorry no news articles as sources... i don't mind having a discussion with people, that's what i expect. but, some people aren't even willing to agree to disagree or to accept the slightest possibility of somethings even. i dunno, i know you need a thick skin here, but i know what you're trying to say.

a reply to: cestrup
Yep its been going on forever but im nit sure there is much they can do about it.

Peace.

a reply to: skyblueworld

Ah, much more eloquent than mine. You're a wizard with the keyboard (and thesaurus). Here's the thing - they're basically trolling because they ARE NOT adding anything to the discussion. Pretending to be more intelligent because you agree with the Official Story and proclaiming others don't understand it totally dilludes the discussion into personal attacks - nearly every single time.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: cestrup

Why does the truth care about shills?

Poetic. And, well, The Truth

No, I think that would take a good deal of viewpoints away from any given discussion. Monotonous conversation is a bore.

I do, however, think conversations would be a whole lot better without the willy-nilly use of the term "shill" to denote someone they don't like or disagree with. And stooping to calling people shills is highly frowned upon on ATS anyway.

It's the exact opposite for me. As a skeptic I try to default to the null hypothesis for most instances with lacking evidence and to look carefully at all points of view. However I tend to see fervent believers calling us shills because we can't deem to agree that the NWO is conspire to bring about Armageddon or that 9/11 was carried out through holographic planes while thermite was detonated for the explosions. Then they get angry and demand to know why I am even on these forums if I can't accept these crazy ideas as true with the little proof they have.

Ya'll NEED us, because you guys frequently forget to look at things rationally and will believe anything regardless of the source. You can see the evidence for this when an outlandish story is posted, the whole first page is full of posters yelling their disgust at whatever the article is about (usually the government), then some level headed person decides to actually READ the article or investigate the sources and determines that the story is sensationalized or just flat out lying. But then most ignore that post anyways and continue to pretend like the story is true as written.

I had one person recently try to tell me that there wasn't enough proof for Evolution then in the SAME post tried to bring use Sasquash as evidence against Evolution. I mean come on... If you don't want to believe in Evolution because of reasoning like there isn't enough evidence for it, fine, but don't, in the same breath, talk about an animal that has even LESS proof than evolution (to the point that it is practically nonexistent).

Heck I find it a challenge to spot them and make notes . I didn't really believe in them ant thought they were only a myth but have come to realize by close study that yea they are real and are on ATS forums . :>)

a reply to: the2ofusr1

They are on every conspiracy forum out there, it is there job and you really can not blame them as they are trained in what they for the most part regard as damage limitation and to be fair some theories if taken at face value would cause war or economic problem's, freeze international relations but others are about keeping it all for there corporate masters.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes, we need skeptics - we do not need threads to be derailed and for cripes sake - realize that everyone can be wrong. There isn't one person on here that has all the answers and these situations are never black and white/simple. Discussion is key - and maybe sometimes it's easier to see things by not giving yourself a label like, "skeptic" or "conspiracy theorist" and looking at a thread from a mile up. For me, I can see who these people are in every thread. Unaccepting of your side and constantly either berating you for thinking a certain way or nitpicking every sentence looking for someting to sway the discussion. Of course, this is my perception which will surely differ from others...

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: cestrup

Why does the truth care about shills?

Because they can obfuscate it and prevent people from seeing the truth?

This thread is a good read:
Look no further~ The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies

It is important to know what tactics are being used by the 'shills'

Forum sliding and topic dilution are common practices. Sometimes it is easy to assume that it is the nature of forums for sliding and dilution to occur. I have seen it happen too many times in sensitive threads to be able to assume all sliding and dilution is the result of normal forum activity.

a reply to: cestrup

The trouble is that presenting facts, and discrediting obvious fakery and lies, often gets you labelled as a "shill".

Perhaps I am one of the people you refer to given your recent thread about Bart Sibrel, which did turn ugly.

Some posters in that thread started attacking you personally, which I agree is no way to carry on an argument. I try not to give in to those sort of tactics, and to stay civil and present facts rather than insults.

But I repeat: correcting errors and calling out hoaxers and YouTube disinformation is not the act of a shill.

Lots of threads on here seem to run along these lines (this is not directed at you, cestrup, by the way)

1) OP posts outlandish YouTube video that is claimed to show aliens, UFOs etc.

2) A couple of other people reply saying "Wow, this is really something, let's see the debunkers deal with this!"

3) People who know what the video actually shows come in to the thread and point out that the video doesn't show what it is claimed to show.

4) Thread continues with a mixture of (a) accusations of shilling and (b) further posts from people who haven't read beyond the first post and leap in with "wow, this is really unexplained".

originally posted by: LABTECH767
No they annoy and try to debunk but so do many whom are not shil so let them be, they serve to invigorate debate as well as when they become a fixture hilight by there attack's on given subject's what is sensative and there opposite number's whom have identified them take note so no discussion is better with them even though you feel like taking a sweaty sock and shoving down there throat's sometime's, also sometime's they are right.
So no it is better with them.

Agreed, I just put them on ignore, somethings are so outlandish they don't even require a response. You pretty much get your 1st amendment here but you can get beat up in print pretty fast if you're a knucklehead. Inverse is right truth is the truth.

the situation is such that, just as in real life, the community is so widely-diverse there will never be an 'absolute consensus' either way on anything.

the downside to that, and again just as in real life, you'll always have those who are so steadfast in their own beliefs [belief system] that you'll never sway their minds to even consider something outside 'their box'.

just a simple fact of life, i guess.

???

so many we see 'labeled' as 'shills' here on the boards are simply nothing more than folks who either Can demonstrate the details and specifics of 'their view or position',, as well as those who simply refuse to accept or even consider 'outside possibilities'.

???

LIFE

I simply strive to recognize the same and the difference between the two... and ignore those who simply will not open their mind'seye to another perspective.

???

I will shill happily if a particular story or conspiracy theory is stupid.
-It's the way it should be.