Russia and China dumped the US - Petro dollar and Dow Drops

Awesome, now there may be more company down here where I dwell in the darkness and misery.

Maybe not so awesome....

A bunch of people who no longer dwell in the "Great Big Fake Economy" committing criminal acts against their fellow under-dwellers for the sake of stealing the almighty buck.

I don't think too many people actually, truly understand what this might mean, but my studies of history lean toward a re-balancing through warfare.

After all, WW2 was what fixed the depression of the 30's....

Leave the system broken and grow a garden, don't get involved if you can possibly avoid it.

The US dollar is rallying this morning still up over 80.

futures.tradingcharts.com...

Conversely the stock markets historically tank on a strong currency.

Pretty sure its a choreographed global economy these days, and they are not going to give us any inside trading tips.

Nice mortgage rate slide in place here in the US after the ratchet last year.
Fits the long term charts, usually protracted interest rate drops weaken a nations currency and boost investments tendered in that nations currency. yawn

ElectricUniverse:

Wow, seriously? and you actually think this is going to be good for you...

Oh dear, are you upset? Stop your blood clot crying! I don't believe that I personalised any of my postings to this thread, but spoke in the 'collective' sense. I live in the UK and now work for an American subsidiary, so any detriment to America may hold a detrimental effect on my job? Nevertheless, it is a good thing for the world, America's hegemony needs breaking up and the best way to do it is by dumping the petrodollar...eventually. Basically, America needs to shut its 'pie hole' when it comes to what other countries are doing for themselves! If it is not subverting elected governments and starting revolutions, it is always trying to dictate terms on the world...and other countries have had enough of it, so they are doing for themselves. Good on them I say!

First of all, it wasn't done by "America"... It has been done by the global international bankers who don't care about any one nation or people...

I think you'll find that the 2008 banking corruption was all American, and that cost me the job I had at that time. So if Americans are about to experience the same thing I experienced due to the corrupt practices of their compatriots, I won't shed a tear, but I will certainly sympathise with their situation. Go Russia! Go China! Go the BRICS countries!

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner

... I don't think too many people actually, truly understand what this might mean, but my studies of history lean toward a re-balancing through warfare.

After all, WW2 was what fixed the depression of the 30's....

Wrong. WW1 did with the creation of Jobs, but by WW2 they were starting to introduce robotics and automation to the workforce. Hence taking away hundreds of thousands of jobs.. The depression in the 30's was mostly caused by an intentional bank/stock crash and a very bad drought (a.k.a the dirty thirties here in Canada)

I feel this will be good for Russia, not really sure why China did it though, other than to piss off the USA. My firm is owned by an American board of directors, so probably not so good for me when they dump all their stocks in about a week is my guess.

Who's surprised? I'm not. Now we just need to get rid of the federal reserve and stand back and watch.

a reply to: 13th Zodiac

It had a bigger drop on April 11th of this year, than it did yesterday. I wouldn't doubt that Chinese/Russia deal had some impact, but I feel it was fairly negligible.

I will say this again...
December 2014 - September 2015 = more fluctuations in stock market
September/October 2015 = expect first real chance of a major dip/drop in the stock market

It will continue to fluctuate and drop until 2017. I'd even imagine the government will do all they can to stave off a crash until after the 2016 elections. They won't be able to 100% control it though.

Honestly, I don't know why you would put sanctions on Russia in the first place. The Russians have enough nukes to destroy the world 7 times over, so no amount of sanctions is going to weaken them. People keep saying that the Russians annexed Crimea, but the fact is 97% voted to join the Russians. Granted, the Russians' army were there, but even if they weren't, the spirit of the vote would probably be 70%.

IMO, the reason that Putin has to deal with China is because he has no other clients, and he has a lot of oil to sell off.

originally posted by: Montana
Why do so many people think that China owning so much US debt means they own the US? Don't you folks understand that by investing nearly ALL it's liquid currency in the US and then compounding that debt, China is now dependent on a functioning US economy? If the US goes down, China has zip, nada, a bunch of worthless numbers on a gazillion pieces of paper.

China doesn't own the US, by grabbing every profit China has made the US has the ability to destroy their economy and so owns THEM.

"Hey China! Ya know those 20 trillions of dollars you gave us? A-HAHAHA! See yas, thanks for the bucks!"

Great plan.

Except do that and the USA will NEVER be able to borrow of anyone EVER again. The US would be a liability to lenders

Your USD will devalue too the value of my turds.


You and china both have each other by the balls, it economic mutaly asured destruction.:

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: borntowatch

Yeah but thats the start, where will it end.

Probably when they realize it's a dumb idea that doesn't actually do anything.

It really amazes me your arrogance. If you are so bright and knowledgeable, what are you doing wasting your time on ATS, writing 30 k + posts in 6 years? Do you really think you know more than the most brilliant economists of two of the most distinct countries on Earth? Seriously????

a reply to: elysiumfire

I think you are in for a rude awakening if the Chinese were to ever take over. There is a reason why the UFOs decided to hand the nukes over to the U.S, instead of the Chinese.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: borntowatch

Gadaffi was bombed by western nations.

Yes, he was. By the US in 1986.

He was killed in 2011 by the rebel opposition which deposed him.

Neither of which had anything to do with currency.

Yes it did have to do with currency. If it wasn't for America the rebels would have never killed him. He was taken out for the same reason Saddam was taken out. They wanted to start selling their oil for something besides the dollar.

originally posted by: buster2010

Yes it did have to do with currency. If it wasn't for America the rebels would have never killed him. He was taken out for the same reason Saddam was taken out. They wanted to start selling their oil for something besides the dollar.

Exactly!!!

Don't also forget why Iran is being tormented for so many years. But Russia and China aren't Iran, aren't Libia or Iraq. So now lets sit back and watch the real fight as the pissing contest days are over.

This could be related:

China and Russia sign multi-billion dollar gas deal after a decade of talks, Chinese state news agency says

BBC Source

a reply to: Komodo

I think this will be far more effective than any bomb they could drop on us.
Death without destruction. Neat, clean and simple

a reply to: buster2010

Actually buster this was the ending of a CIA operation that started 30 years prior. One of Quadaffis ex generals was sent in to destroy him with the UN acting as his air force. I forgot the generals name but he was betrayed by his boss and sent to a prison in chad. At the time the leader of chad was a CIA asset and they offerred him a deal. Something came up though and they took the general and his men into the US where they stayed under CIA surveillance until the time was right.

It wasnt about money it was due to quadaffi's past terrorist actions and the fulfilling of the original hit now that he was no longer usefull.

This alone could probably get it's own thread, but to add ....

China calls for new security pact with Russia, Iran

(CBSnews.com)-SHANGHAI -- China's president called Tuesday for the creation of a new Asian structure for security cooperation based on a regional group that includes Russia and Iran and excludes the United States.

President Xi Jinping spoke at a meeting in Shanghai of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence-building measures in Asia, an obscure group that has taken on significance as Beijing tries to extend its influence and limit the role of the United States, which it sees as a strategic rival.

www.cbsnews.com...

If the Russians want to get into bed with the CPC then so be it.
This does not change the reality of the situation.

China is already starting to dominate Asia, within 30 years they will be infinitely more powerful militarily, economically and politically than Russia.

Russia already had to settle for Gas prices far lower than the price point for European destined gas exports, also bear in mind if Oil goes down in medium term as is predicted then Russia is still horribly overexposed to price shifts. Russia is doing this out of weakness, the Chinese would simply get more LNG and NG from the central Asian states or Africa if the Russians raised the price. Also because of the high extraction costs in Russia, the profit margin on every cubic meter of gas are less than in other nations.

Then there is the Shale reserves of China, if they can successfully utilise these assets they can solve many of their own energy problems.

Russia has developed this position of being somewhere in between the west and the east (even though culturally Russia is fundamentally a European, western nation), now they are far weaker than the USSR days, they have to decide if they want to be NA/European aligned or China aligned.

Considering the authoritarian nature of both states, the institutionalized corruption and the disregard for the population at large, it is not really surprising they are going for this move, but to suggest they will be EQUAL partners of Beijing is a big mistake. China views itself as simply returning to its original historical position of the world superpower after a 400 year blip, and they are staking these new historically motivated territorial claims in the South China Sea, I wonder if they will begin making similar claims about eastern Siberia, a large section of which was annexed by the Russian Czars? Hmm food for thought.

At the end of the day Russia will never be able to complete with the US, a united Europe or China simply because of a lack of population, lack of technical and scientific knowledge & over-dependence hydrocarbons. So it has to pick a side, and from the oligarchy in Moscow's perspective (which recently banned swearing in films, literature, music etc.) the best ally of their own personal (not national) ambitions is the CPC, who are equally as corrupt.

Not to say the EU and US are not very corrupt, but compared to what goes on in Russia and China western corruption is tiny (that's how bad it is in RU and CN!!).

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
I don't think too many people actually, truly understand what this might mean, but my studies of history lean toward a re-balancing through warfare.

After all, WW2 was what fixed the depression of the 30's....

it is how ww2 fixed the war. By bombing the means of production in Europe. After the war, the US was practically the only game in town with regards to making things. And the war reparations were great as a boost.

America was making everything the rest of the world bought. Now, if we think in those terms. Where do we focus to eliminate the manufacturing competition? Where is the biggest manufacturing competition to the US?
CHINA.

we need to bomb them back to the 1950s. Seize all the US based assets, cancel the debt, and leave them to the wolves.

a reply to: Telos

Do you really think you know more than the most brilliant economists of two of the most distinct countries on Earth? Seriously????

Do you actually think that China wants to ruin the US economy? Seriously???

The deal between China and Russia will have no effect on the dollar. It may carry some symbolic significance but that's it. The majority of international trade in both countries is in dollars.

originally posted by: SpaDe_
Wasn't the collapse of the dollar supposed to start summer 2014? This would appear to be right on schedule if it was.

According to ATS predictions, propaganda, secret sources, and a guy someone knows it was supposed to happen every week since I have been a member.