Hillsborough Inquests "Uncontroversial Facts"

The evidence you're looking for, CCTV footage of two cameras in the control room, was stolen on the day and the culprit has never been found. It would be nice to have evidence as strong as that but sometimes statements, reports etc become so abundant that they can't be ignored if they corroborate. If you're dealing with an organisation that are highly experienced in corrupt practice, you're unlikely to recover the strongest forms of evidence. The South Yorkshire Police were as corrupt as they come.

a reply to: twfau

The practice of producing large quantities of corroborating paperwork is common.

We have two stories of Jackson experiencing a breakdown that incapacitated the control box. One witness met with a severe gardening accident while the other shuts his door every time someone knocks and says, "Hey Andy, do you fancy coming out and taking on the New World Order? Jumpers for goalposts."

Meanwhile the evidence that would clear it up went missing on the day. One of the pointers to it being a deliberate operation is the speed with which the cover-up got underway when in the chaos of the aftermath it must have been difficult to know what was being covered up. That fits with my view that the cover-up was the desired outcome, to be used exactly as it is being used now in conjunction with the ridiculously mis-reported Plebgate affair.

They want us to think all coppers are bad so we'll sleepily get conned into accepting a brutal, elite-worshipping private police force. Approach coppers with the respect that is due to the retrievers of bloated corpses and you'll find most of them are sound.

originally posted by: twfau
The evidence you're looking for, CCTV footage of two cameras in the control room, was stolen on the day and the culprit has never been found. It would be nice to have evidence as strong as that but sometimes statements, reports etc become so abundant that they can't be ignored if they corroborate. If you're dealing with an organisation that are highly experienced in corrupt practice, you're unlikely to recover the strongest forms of evidence. The South Yorkshire Police were as corrupt as they come.

So you have positively fingered South Yorkshire Police as the tape thieves? Why not intelligence operatives cleaning up after a messy job? The truth is we don't know who stole the tapes. We can almost safely deduce it was to remove evidence of what happened in the control room. And we have two eyewitness accounts of everyone being so intent on handling Jacksons breakdown that nothing effective was down to take control of the emergency response to the crush.

In the interest of denying ignorance I also have to question whether South Yorkshire Police were really as corrupt as they come. I've heard stories from travellers about experiences with police in other parts of the world.

No I'm not making accusations about who stole the tapes, although not many other people will have access to a police control room. There is a fair amount of evidence of systematic corrupt practise within a lot of police forces in the eighties, but the South Yorkshire Police had a number of scandals. The reason Super-intendent Brian Mole (Highly experienced in crowd control) was transferred a month before Hillsborough was due to an incident in which two police officers faked an armed ambush on a new recruit, tied him up and left him in the road half naked. This was reported at the time to not have been a typical 'initiation'.

The gravity of corruption within the police forces was only really revealed in the Hillsborough Independent Panel in 2012 (it took 23 years!) which included evidence of police statements that were routinely 'sanitised' without the permission of the officers, often with criticisms of the police crossed out. A systematic conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. This was a practice which by 1988 was almost routine. I'm sure if you searched the world you would find different types shocking actions, but in my opinion whether a police force is committing murder or wilfully tarnishing the reputation of the dead, it's still corruption, and the systematic nature of it puts them as bad as anywhere else in the world.

I would implore you, or anyone to watch the Hillsborough episode of 30 for 30: Soccer Stories by ESPN as it is quite informative of the attempts by the people at the top to criminalise those who attended the game and obfuscate the truth in the immediate aftermath. As yet no-one has been prosecuted.

a reply to: twfau

Spooks are taught lock picking amongst other skills.

You have to wonder what crazy story they would have come up with if the 'initiation' had gone wrong.

I believe it took 23 years because this is the time that it took to begin introducing the long planned large scale privatisation of British policing. This is all part of the defamation campaign intended to cause us to more easily accept private police, at our peril. A defamation campaign made so much easier by the tendency for police to become corrupt.