If People are Going to Open Carry Firearms - At Least Have a Sense of Humor

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Why should he have to ask? He has a permit to legally carry. End of story.
What he should be concerned with is the number of police officers who might look at his firearm and take it wrong. Sometimes they don't give a person time to explain...hey it's legal and I have a permit...before BANG Lets talk about it over a body.

Wow. That worries me that the gun owners go out with a chip on their shoulder and gun on the hip. What could go wrong?

a reply to: Biigs

i take it you walk around in mittens?

a reply to: VoidHawk

You have to understand how low an opinion I have for open carry in the first place, to understand why I view his actions in this specific circumstance the way I do.

Open Carry is an OUTSTANDING gift to criminals. If I am about to rob a corner store and someone is open carry? I know who to walk up behind and shoot as the #1 to go down, and before they ever know anything was happening. Often the same with uniformed armed security in high risk areas, when they encounter someone who is serious about crime (a hard core multi-striker who robs for a living, for instance).

The only advantage one has in an armed confrontation is surprise. That's it. Take that away, and you have the odds of a gunslinger in an old West movie ..IF you have the luck of spotting the threat before they spot you. You have 6 to carry you, if they DO spot you first and they aren't a punk playing wanna-be.

Hence..why I said? I don't see any upside to this. All downside. Making a spectacle of it, made it worse.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

A guy with a gun and no sense of humor is a little spooky, if ya ask me.

Personally, I'd have replied with my typical smartassishmness, and said something along the lines of how she just doesn't have the whole robbery thing down pat - it's a business, THEY are supposed to rob ME, not the other way 'round.

Then again, the climate for gun owners doesn't promote much humor these days, and I'm probably on the strange side of things anyhow.

People have funny and unpredictable actions to carrying a gun where you can see it. I personally always felt better about it if I could see the other guy's gun, and less warm and fuzzy if they were concealing it, permit or not. The act of concealing makes one wonder at some deeper level. I HAVE carried concealed, under certain conditions, but not as a way of life.

There was a little Burger King in a town in NC that was ran entirely by Mexicans, most of whom had not much English. They always refused my money when I ate there, so long as I ate THERE - sitting and munching with my gun on my hip for the whole world to see. Only charged me if it was carry-out. One of the girls told me when I asked about that "You're armed. You eat here, we get no problems while you're here."

Another guy at another place was sort of shocked one day when I walked into his store unarmed and asked me where my gun was - so I told him it was in my car, and he says "well this might be a good time to go get it and strap up" and pointed at his concern with his chin. So I did, and that was enough to urge his concern right out the door, so they could go be someone else's concern. Upon further reflection, it didn't look to me like thy were planning a purchase, anyhow.

Then there is the entire other end of the spectrum, the people who are way TOO scared. I'm gonna tell you a true story here, God's own truth. I was working armed security at a bank in High Point, NC one day, in full uniform, and two cop cars prowl in, do circles of the lot, then get out and do another circle of the facility on foot. When they found nothing, one of them walks up to me and says, "seen anyone suspicious around here? We got a call of a suspicious man with a gun at this location."

So I told him I hadn't seen anything, and what was the description the caller gave?

He says "she said there was a man with a gun hanging outside the bank, wearing light brown..." and then he looked at my uniform, my brown uniform, and said "Oh #!" before he started laughing. Someone had called the SECURITY in to 911 because I had a gun. I dunno about you, but I'd say that UNARMED security at a BANK is courting disaster (which is what BoA had in NC until one day that I threw a fit and told them that I knew my way home if they were only looking for pretty uniforms with shiny geegaws on them, because I wasn't any kind of runway model. One call to the security honcho for BoA in Charlotte got every BoA guard in the entire state armed before closing - at that time they were all Wackenhut CPO's, and so all had their artillery in the trunk, just had to buckle it on).

SO - there are all kinds of reactions to armed people, some less humorous than others. I would imagine that some people lose all their humor after having to deal with a bit too much lunacy from other folks who don't think things through. Dude should have known, however, that in this neighborhood just about everyone is strapped, but open carry isn't what's expected of actual robbers - they don't usually announce themselves and ask if it's ok to be armed in your establishment before they rob you, so a reaction of "that's cool if you don't plan on shooting ME" is, perhaps, situational humor that he just didn't recognize, because he was expecting otherwise.

I wasn't there when this happened, and it's probably a good thing, given my attitude and all. I'd probably have said, when he launched into the "law abiding citizen" spiel, "relax dude - you're armed, I get it, and you ain't shooting random folk, so I'm good with that!"

But no, I've never walked into a facility and announced I was armed. I always figured they could see that, and if they didn't like it, they could point me to the door on their own, without my helping them along.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

Hey Opinionated, I am a lot like yourself, as well as your boss. I love cracking jokes all the time, because I enjoy trying to get people to smile, even if just a little.

But there's one thing you have to understand, and if you've ever understood it, remember. Sometimes people hear jokes so many times, that it gets old, and is no longer funny. They then become jokes that make you want to punch someone in the face.

For example, people working in retail. When an item doesn't scan correctly, a lot of times a customer will think they're funny by saying "Well, I guess that means it's free, right?" Sure, they're trying to be funny. In the beginning, it was humorous. But after hearing it for so many years, even if it's only every once in awhile, it gets to the point where it's no longer funny.

That's why I think the gun owner wasn't laughing at you guys. Everywhere he goes, he probably gets some funny guy saying something along those lines, so after so long, he probably just gets tired of it. Plus, as Seeker mentioned, he's got to be careful what he says.

If he replied to your initial joke with something like "Nah, I'll just shoot around your feet, make you dance for me. ", I'm sure you'd know he's joking, and laugh. But if anyone around him felt threatened in any way, shape or form......or even pretended to be afraid, because they hate gun rights, he'd be in a lot of trouble.

I understand your rant, because of how often I joke around. Sometimes it feels like people have a big, giant stick up their butts. But don't get too ranty about it, because sometimes it's also the fault of the comedian in the first place. You have to know your audience.

originally posted by: DocMartigann
a reply to: Biigs

i take it you walk around in mittens?

Boxing gloves

2

originally posted by: DocMartigann
a reply to: OpinionatedB

as to not get off topic i wont ask what he has, but i will.... U2u me if you want otherwise...... I have one lelgit sword a cool machette and sever full tang dagger like blades made by reputible bladesmithes any way real swords are buetifull......kind of like when you watch your first born come into the world, although less blood

I've got a fair sized collection of sharp things, several swords and far more knives and such.I'll U2U a picture of some of them to you after a while, so you can see part of what I've got. The missus has laid claim to a couple of pieces, so I guess they are held in common. Everything from a claymore down through a jungle knife from El Salvador that I picked up in the early 80's, on down to pocket knives that function more as security blanket than anything else.

A couple of katanas, an Arab sword that looks like a Persian shamshir, a Fairbairn-Sykes with an odd story behind it, and most recently I picked up a V-42 for next to nothing.

I like sharp things.

Now I'm getting older, though, and am more comfortable with a 2 ounce trigger squeeze than hewing around with sword-slinging when the crap gets deep. There is a lot to be said for the Great Equalizer under certain conditions.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000
I agree with most of what you say, my point though was that you said

I have to put myself in that position for a moment..and what would I personally gain by announcing myself as armed like that in a store or business where no signs made an issue of it? ..... ...... ...... the only thing to come to mind is a sense of SELF-Importance by putting others on a defensive or at some unease.

I was just saying that his response could well have been due to previous encounters, not because he has a "sense of SELF-Importance".

Guns are deadly serious things....openly carrying is even more serious...
YOU shouldn't have tried the joke routine in the first place.....he was polite and asked of he was offending anyone when he entered....nuff said....
Some things we just don't joke about....
having the means to take life hanging on your ass isn't funny at all......

originally posted by: Biigs
I didnt find any of it funny.

Everyone should lighten up but thats a challenge when they have a device right next to their hand that can kill you almost instantly and they dont even need to be close to you.

What if he diid take offense, pretended to be okay with you and then follow to your car later and murder you?

It's all good. She doesn't drive, and if he'd followed her home, I got some surprises that he might not have liked very much. Long as that gun is next to his hand and not in his hand, he need not worry about getting disassembled. No need to flip out over the mere presence of a chunk of metal. That "device" can NOT kill you on it's own - it desperately NEEDS an operator, and if the operator gets to trying to operate it, well hell, that can get interesting in a hell of a hurry. Probably a bigger hurry than he was ready for.

People who carry guns are not to be trifled with in my opinion. Because if they have it and are showing it off, they are obviously capable of using it. I know how to fight with my hands, but i dont advertise that fact.

Just having something does NOT imply an ability to use it. Remember Nancy Reagan's "little gun in the dresser drawer". So no, it's not an "obvious" capability of using it"... and there's always that other guy, who doesn't care what you think you can do with it.

They purposely want to intimidate everyone to feel safe, which means they are insecure.

To be perfectly honest, anyone who ventures into THIS neighborhood and doesn't feel some degree of insecurity ought to have his head examined. Having a gun would be the least of his worries, paling before his psychological problems.

a reply to: VoidHawk

That's possible...and I suppose we have no idea what goes through the minds of people who are carrying openly without the confidence to forget it's there.

I think that is what distinguishes people in public, really. There are some I see around my own town open carrying and I swear, it's very obvious who has been doing it as a routine part of life and who is consciously aware of the gun's presence every moment.

The ones who carry so naturally, it's barely even noticed even when right in front of you are the ones I think of as safe...if still a bit misguided on the advertising part. Citizens generally conceal carry, in my experience. At least the ones carrying strictly for protection and well beyond the 'neat' phase of what really is a big pain in the ass, truth be told.

originally posted by: Loveaduck
a reply to: OpinionatedB

Why should he have to ask? He has a permit to legally carry. End of story.
What he should be concerned with is the number of police officers who might look at his firearm and take it wrong. Sometimes they don't give a person time to explain...hey it's legal and I have a permit...before BANG Lets talk about it over a body.

I was pulled over once by one of those scary cops because someone stole my license tag on a job site. I drove off without checking for it, my bad. Anyhow, I had a samurai sword strapped in to the headrest on the passenger seat (to keep it from flopping around in the car, not because I thought there was anything you can do with a samurai sword inside a car), and a pistol on my hip.

As soon as he got to the window, I had my hands TDC of the steering wheel so he could see them, and the first thing I told him was that there was a gun on my hip, and what did he want to do with that, SIR?

He asked if it was loaded, and being the smartass I am, I said "hell yeah! Is yours loaded? What good are they without being loaded?" He laughed, and the ice was broken.

He just had me hand it over butt-first, tucked it into his gun belt, wrote my ticket, and handed it back and told me to have a nice day. No problem.

Cops are a lot like guns themselves - no need to be scared of them just because you see one.

a reply to: nenothtu

That reminds me of a stop I had in South Dakota a couple years ago. We were coming back from a funeral in Montana with my wife, son and sister in law. Well, I had a gun, of course, but didn't have a permit for it yet. It was about 3am or so and my wife drew the attention of one of their dope units just fishing for bites on a slow morning. Our out of state plate coming down the interstate looked like a fish to him.

He gave a bit of a rash and crap about the gun, loaded in a back seat tote bag, only because declaring it hadn't been done right off. After he ran everyone though, talked to us all separate to insure our stories were true, he wrote us a warning for some stupid traffic thing and put the gun back in the trunk, with the 5 rounds sitting next to the open cylinder.

He just said to leave it there and leave it empty until he pulled away, but he fully understood why we'd have a gun with or without permit, cross country driving with two women and a child. Not all cops are trolls, to be sure.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: VoidHawk

You have to understand how low an opinion I have for open carry in the first place, to understand why I view his actions in this specific circumstance the way I do.

Open Carry is an OUTSTANDING gift to criminals. If I am about to rob a corner store and someone is open carry? I know who to walk up behind and shoot as the #1 to go down, and before they ever know anything was happening. Often the same with uniformed armed security in high risk areas, when they encounter someone who is serious about crime (a hard core multi-striker who robs for a living, for instance).

The only advantage one has in an armed confrontation is surprise. That's it. Take that away, and you have the odds of a gunslinger in an old West movie ..IF you have the luck of spotting the threat before they spot you. You have 6 to carry you, if they DO spot you first and they aren't a punk playing wanna-be.

Hence..why I said? I don't see any upside to this. All downside. Making a spectacle of it, made it worse.

There is an art to being armed security in high-risk areas. the first thing to know is to not let ANYONE ever get behind you. No exceptions, not even kids, not even the guys you work with. I used to be the guy they sent to the areas on the map marked "here there be dragons", because I was always on call (which is how I wound up at the BoA in the story above), and often the other guys would simply refuse to go some places - and the office knew I never refused anything... so they'd send me, and I'd get up and go. A couple of the supervisors came out a time or two to purposely TRY to sneak up behind me, and never got it done. It was like sport to them for a while.

As a security officer, your job is to watch THEM, whomever "they" may be, not the other way around. As a matter of fact, that's one of the ways I always knew something was up - if a person or persons came in or on-site and took an interest in knowing where I was.

They got extra attention until they left, or tried to throw down.

Lots of variables involved in it. Once you know who to watch, you've always got to get a position where your back is covered, and you have a clear line on them, with nothing untoward in their background - like innocent folks. It's not always easy to do, but the predatory types know when they're under the microscope and at a disadvantage.

You are correct in your assessment that if one can't figure that out, however, he's likely toast.

a reply to: nenothtu

I appreciate your sharing and I'd definitely say you've never struck me as the type to be armed with a 'head up butt' syndrome to deal with at the same time. It seems a standard state of daily life for many, anymore.

I got the armed security concept for how I view it now from my father, who used to describe to me, screwing with security in the city he worked as a Cop. it wasn't mean spirited, but to get an idea of who were like you and who were the majority to treat as a threat as much as the bad guy if anything happened.

He liked to literally walk up behind them ...rattle of full police gear and all...to say 'Hiya!' and see if they had ever even been aware someone was moving behind them. I guess he gave up trying to explain the 'first one to get shot' theory after awhile and blank stares with no comprehension of the concept.

I admire the security who DO stay "frosty" the whole time they're working. It's a hell of A LOT of work to maintain that mental state for any real length of time. A detail I don't think many appreciate.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I do think you have a point here about his announcement since there is no sign on the door saying to leave your gun in the car.

But - who knows what his mindset was for doing what he did. Could have been wanting to feel important who knows? But it could have been as harmless as in this neighborhood being armed is probably a smart thing, especially if your a business owner like he is and announcing/asking could have just been respectful because maybe that is what he wants from others in his business.

I scare people in this neighborhood more than anyone I think - simply by the fact I walk unarmed and appear very unafraid. No one messes with me based on that alone. I think they figure I must be insane - and no one wants to mess with a nutty ###

lol

a reply to: OpinionatedB

I think you hit on the key point, right there. It's THE key...really. Why do CCW carriers have fewer problems, if we agree stats show they do (which I think stats do show)?

It's a lesson I learned early early in life. The Appearance of Power IS power. The appearance of menace..IS menace. It sounds simple and almost silly for how basic a statement it is. I think it's one of the most profound life lessons a person can learn though. It literally defines how life goes for each of us, as a product of how we carry ourselves.

Well I guess you can always give them your opinion of them......thatll slow em down.....
good luck wit dat.....

a reply to: Necrobile

I think if you are going to open carry people may make jokes - maybe they aren't funny after a while, but at the same time you have to expect it from people who DON'T have a problem with it. Especially people in sales. For a salesman the rule is: Get someone laughing and joking and you have the sale made. So the joking is going to come from somewhere - usually the most obvious topics - sometimes it takes a minute or two to figure out the right topic, sometimes it's handed to you on a silver platter.

He as a gun owner needs to realize this - just as much as the people who make jokes and have a light hearted state of mind. I was going to joke with him regardless of whether or not he had a gun. The gun was simply the most obvious - and he opened the topic by announcing what was already apparent.