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originally posted by: MrSpad
So the US who has said over and over it would not go to war for Ukraine has secrely created this entire scenerio to go to war with Russia? Is this the same US who so far has launched some minor santions and suggested talking the issue out? And I guess we have to assume that the US made Russia take Crimea, threaten Moldova and fly bombers at the UK, Sweden, US etc. This very well could be one of the dumbest theories ever put forth on ATS.
originally posted by: rigel4
Propaganda in Germany has been pure cold war, with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung warning its readers of Russia's "undeclared war". For the Germans, it is a poignant irony that Putin is the only leader to condemn the rise of fascism in 21st-century Europe.
originally posted by: MrSpad
So the US who has said over and over it would not go to war for Ukraine has secrely created this entire scenerio to go to war with Russia? Is this the same US who so far has launched some minor santions and suggested talking the issue out? And I guess we have to assume that the US made Russia take Crimea, threaten Moldova and fly bombers at the UK, Sweden, US etc. This very well could be one of the dumbest theories ever put forth on ATS.
ATS i have read the entire article and even though I have shouted
down the other side.. This article is making me take a rethink of the entire Ukraine question. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...
originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Anti war a bad thing? You make it sound that way
originally posted by: Whereismypassword
So many people are anti USA and UK because these two countries are warmongers
originally posted by: Whereismypassword
I used to vote conservative,I'm down South but now after the BS in Syria I won't vote ever again for them
same with liberals they sounded like hawks and labour-they hate the English and allowed Afganistan and Iraq to be invaded.Next election will be 1st time I have no one to vote,that's a shame
originally posted by: stumason
As for labels, I don't subscribe to any particular ideology - such a thing is stupid.
originally posted by: stumason
If War is necessary, go for it, but pursue other avenues first. I also work with many ex-military types and my entire family is former military and not one of them thinks standing up to Russia is a bad thing.
originally posted by: MrSpad
So the US who has said over and over it would not go to war for Ukraine has secrely created this entire scenerio to go to war with Russia? Is this the same US who so far has launched some minor santions and suggested talking the issue out? And I guess we have to assume that the US made Russia take Crimea, threaten Moldova and fly bombers at the UK, Sweden, US etc. This very well could be one of the dumbest theories ever put forth on ATS.
originally posted by: rigel4
ATS i have read the entire article and even though I have shouted
down the other side.. This article is making me take a rethink of the entire Ukraine question.
What is the point of aggravating Russia to this extent (if true).
Guardian
Why do we tolerate the threat of another world war in our name? Why do we allow lies that justify this risk? The scale of our indoctrination, wrote Harold Pinter, is a "brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis", as if the truth "never happened even while it was happening".
Every year the American historian William Blum publishes his "updated summary of the record of US foreign policy" which shows that, since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in elections in 30 countries; bombed the civilian populations of 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders.
In many cases Britain has been a collaborator. The degree of human suffering, let alone criminality, is little acknowledged in the west, despite the presence of the world's most advanced communications and nominally most free journalism. That the most numerous victims of terrorism – "our" terrorism – are Muslims, is unsayable. That extreme jihadism, which led to 9/11, was nurtured as a weapon of Anglo-American policy (Operation Cyclone in Afghanistan) is suppressed. In April the US state department noted that, following Nato's campaign in 2011, "Libya has become a terrorist safe haven".
The name of "our" enemy has changed over the years, from communism to Islamism, but generally it is any society independent of western power and occupying strategically useful or resource-rich territory, or merely offering an alternative to US domination. The leaders of these obstructive nations are usually violently shoved aside, such as the democrats Muhammad Mossedeq in Iran, Arbenz in Guatemala and Salvador Allende in Chile, or they are murdered like Patrice Lumumba in the Democratic Republic of Congo. All are subjected to a western media campaign of vilification – think Fidel Castro, Hugo Chávez, now Vladimir Putin.
Washington's role in Ukraine is different only in its implications for the rest of us. For the first time since the Reagan years, the US is threatening to take the world to war. With eastern Europe and the Balkans now military outposts of Nato, the last "buffer state" bordering Russia – Ukraine – is being torn apart by fascist forces unleashed by the US and the EU. We in the west are now backing neo-Nazis in a country where Ukrainian Nazis backed Hitler.
Having masterminded the coup in February against the democratically elected government in Kiev, Washington's planned seizure of Russia's historic, legitimate warm-water naval base in Crimea failed. The Russians defended themselves, as they have done against every threat and invasion from the west for almost a century.
But Nato's military encirclement has accelerated, along with US-orchestrated attacks on ethnic Russians in Ukraine. If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained "pariah" role will justify a Nato-run guerrilla war that is likely to spill into Russia itself.
Instead, Putin has confounded the war party by seeking an accommodation with Washington and the EU, by withdrawing Russian troops from the Ukrainian border and urging ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine to abandon the weekend's provocative referendum. These Russian-speaking and bilingual people – a third of Ukraine's population – have long sought a democratic federation that reflects the country's ethnic diversity and is both autonomous of Kiev and independent of Moscow. Most are neither "separatists" nor "rebels", as the western media calls them, but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland.
Like the ruins of Iraq and Afghanistan, Ukraine has been turned into a CIA theme park – run personally by CIA director John Brennan in Kiev, with dozens of "special units" from the CIA and FBI setting up a "security structure" that oversees savage attacks on those who opposed the February coup. Watch the videos, read the eye-witness reports from the massacre in Odessa this month. Bussed fascist thugs burned the trade union headquarters, killing 41 people trapped inside. Watch the police standing by.
A doctor described trying to rescue people, "but I was stopped by pro-Ukrainian Nazi radicals. One of them pushed me away rudely, promising that soon me and other Jews of Odessa are going to meet the same fate. What occurred yesterday didn't even take place during the fascist occupation in my town in world war two. I wonder, why the whole world is keeping silent."
Russian-speaking Ukrainians are fighting for survival. When Putin announced the withdrawal of Russian troops from the border, the Kiev junta's defence secretary, Andriy Parubiy – a founding member of the fascist Svoboda party – boasted that attacks on "insurgents" would continue. In Orwellian style, propaganda in the west has inverted this to Moscow "trying to orchestrate conflict and provocation", according to William Hague. His cynicism is matched by Obama's grotesque congratulations to the coup junta on its "remarkable restraint" after the Odessa massacre. The junta, says Obama, is "duly elected". As Henry Kissinger once said: "It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but what is perceived to be true."
In the US media the Odessa atrocity has been played down as "murky" and a "tragedy" in which "nationalists" (neo-Nazis) attacked "separatists" (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine). Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal damned the victims – "Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says". Propaganda in Germany has been pure cold war, with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung warning its readers of Russia's "undeclared war". For the Germans, it is a poignant irony that Putin is the only leader to condemn the rise of fascism in 21st-century Europe.
A popular truism is that "the world changed" following 9/11. But what has changed? According to the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, a silent coup has taken place in Washington and rampant militarism now rules. The Pentagon currently runs "special operations" – secret wars – in 124 countries. At home, rising poverty and a loss of liberty are the historic corollary of a perpetual war state. Add the risk of nuclear war, and the question is: why do we tolerate this?
originally posted by: DJW001
How does the pro-Russia propaganda in this article differ from all the other pro-Russia propaganda?
For once, please define "pro-russian" and why exactly you think this piece is "pro-russian", when its mostly about a group of people in the US (and the EU) and their morally questionable agenda.
Is all criticism towards our systems in the west "pro-russian" now?
I'd like to know what you would consider as "pro-western" or "anti-russian".
Blind loyalty and obedience?
originally posted by: DJW001
Anyone who ignores Russia's aggression in Ukraine and attempts to justify it by blaming the US, EU or any other entity than Russia is a Russian apologist and, hence, pro-Russian.
originally posted by: DJW001
No, only criticism intended to justify Russian misbehavior.
...since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in elections in 30 countries; bombed the civilian populations of 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted to assassinate foreign leaders.
The name of "our" enemy has changed over the years, from communism to Islamism, but generally it is any society independent of western power and occupying strategically useful or resource-rich territory,
In many cases Britain has been a collaborator. The degree of human suffering, let alone criminality, is little acknowledged in the west, despite the presence of the world's most advanced communications and nominally most free journalism.
The Pentagon currently runs "special operations" – secret wars – in 124 countries. At home, rising poverty and a loss of liberty are the historic corollary of a perpetual war state.