Why are you so sure?

Atheists are sure that our universe, our earth, our lives are, random chance. Based mostly on words written by another person.
Religious people are sure that our universe, our earth, our lives, are fate, Based mostly on words written by another person.
Why are you right? Or wrong? Or of course, unsure.

a reply to: rockintitz

In the end, all of our experiences are our own, and our unique world views are shaped by what we alone experience. I love science so much, because if you take the time, if you do the experiments, you'll find that those scientists hammered down a few really solid things about our universe. At the same time I have experiences that (my grasp of) science can't make easy sense of. When I turn to spiritual folk, I get all kinds of ideas, some beautiful, some clearly wrong. I feel like they too have seen what I have seen, but unlike the tidy little homestead of science, they are all wanderers on a greater frontier, in which its easy for all any one of us to get lost. The world goes round because spiritual folks keep moving forward in their small steps, but that great frontier is still a long ways off from being tamed by our tiny human minds.

If i take a walk in the woods and a tree falls in front of me i have two options, "God made it happen" or "coincident made it happen".

I would choose coincident as the other one doesn't make sense.

Why i am so sure, is cause tree's fall all over the place, not just in front of me.

I believe there is universal truth out there but we have a hard time coming up with it and acting on it. But it does occasionally ring clarion clear. It seems to me that when we hear it, it resonates with us at an intuitive level and we know its right. For instance why so many people instinctively want to help when they come across an accident?
Or if offered a drink of water if you have none and are really dry or thirsty. The very thing we need to sustain our bodies at a fundamental level cosmic level. Well I believe that is a universal truth regarding the greater good, whether empathy, compassion, or just plain old fashion love for your fellow human being. Another would be the feeling of owing your life to someone who did some timely thing to save your life. I would say that empathy is a universal truth. Being able to put yourself in another's position and truly wonder how you would feel if in that same position and then acting according in a positive fashion to help that person.

This may sound corny but Susan Boyle's first audition had something magical in it. Among the sea of cynics and doubters and heckler's and insulters, her musical truth and dream of sharing her talent, rang through clarion clear, so clear that is one of the all time leading viewed youtube vids.

I think there is a natural propensity in people to see each other prosper. This is why so many people enjoy giving gifts more that receiving them.

Meh .. the jury still out weighing evidence here .. nothing in life other than death is sure ..

a reply to: Expat888

And according to many, death isn't that sure either...

So what... we're left with taxes?

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Expat888

And according to many, death isn't that sure either...

So what... we're left with taxes?

2nd that
Death isn't sure at all.

Pretty sure that randomness is just less understood order. Seen a lot of synchronicity and played around a little with the third eye. But why are religious people who follow a book so sure that they understand their religious books.

God works in mysterious ways is a lame ass excuse for people who have no third eye ability activated and a low level of ability in pattern recognizing.

I'm not sure of anything. Every human idea put forth as truth ranges on a probability scale in my head. Nothing however ever equals 1 or 0. Keep in mind, that because of this, that may mean I may favor one idea (say Evolution) over another (say YEC), but I don't ever say I believe fully in one thing or disbelieve fully in another thing. It is foolish to assume that we know for sure about anything since there are variables that we don't know about waiting to be discovered that could raise or lower the probabilities of even the most true thing we know about.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Expat888

And according to many, death isn't that sure either...

So what... we're left with taxes?

If you thrive in the black market, even taxes aren't a sure thing.

That's the thing...I am a Pagan but I am very much a believer in science

I believe evolution, cosmology, the big bang. It's all fine and dandy until I come to what I think is the ultimate question (for me anyway)

We talk about the singularity and matter coming from what is essentially nothing. But here is what gets me...regardless of where matter came from, what gave it the ability to exist? Where did existence come from? I have always felt that some divine force started it all and then we have our own subjective experience

Of course then you ask where did that divine presence come from...

oh well I am no philosophical whiz-kid anyway

I just live

originally posted by: Mianeye
If i take a walk in the woods and a tree falls in front of me i have two options, "God made it happen" or "coincident made it happen".

I would choose coincident as the other one doesn't make sense.

Why i am so sure, is cause tree's fall all over the place, not just in front of me.

How did the tree get there in the first place? Did the tree get there by coincidence?
It's literally impossible for me to look at a tree, then the forest, the entire ecosystem, and not
think that there is some intelligence behind it.

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: Mianeye
If i take a walk in the woods and a tree falls in front of me i have two options, "God made it happen" or "coincident made it happen".

I would choose coincident as the other one doesn't make sense.

Why i am so sure, is cause tree's fall all over the place, not just in front of me.

How did the tree get there in the first place? Did the tree get there by coincidence?
It's literally impossible for me to look at a tree, then the forest, the entire ecosystem, and not
think that there is some intelligence behind it.

Why? What is the plan that THIS tree had to be planted at THAT position?

If the best answer to this is "we don't know, god moves in mysterious ways" - that answer doesn't satisfy any questioning mind.

a reply to: rockintitz

I'm an atheist and I never say that I'm sure everything happened by "random chance". Most atheists I know say that we don't know.

You might be talking about gnostic atheists, but I think most atheists are agnostic atheists from my experience. The most logical thing to say is that we don't know.

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: Mianeye
If i take a walk in the woods and a tree falls in front of me i have two options, "God made it happen" or "coincident made it happen".

I would choose coincident as the other one doesn't make sense.

Why i am so sure, is cause tree's fall all over the place, not just in front of me.

How did the tree get there in the first place? Did the tree get there by coincidence?
It's literally impossible for me to look at a tree, then the forest, the entire ecosystem, and not
think that there is some intelligence behind it.

If you see an ecosystem and think that it's impossible for it to exist without some intelligence behind it then you should be able to see that an intelligent and powerful being, who designed the ecosystem, is impossible to exist without some intelligence behind it.

Knowledge is a human affair and creation, as is truth, certainty and surety. To say that out there somewhere is an ungraspable and ineffable universal truth or absolute fact is to take knowledge and the creation of knowledge out of human hands and put it somewhere in the sky. It is base superstition.

We use the tools of knowledge to reach relative certainty, which is basically comfort in the truth value of a proposition.

originally posted by: rockintitz

Why are you right? Or wrong? Or of course, unsure.

1 feels many nonbelievers when encountering the hardships associated with the Life and Death phases within EXISTENCE seek CREATOR GOD or GOD SENDS for support when themselves or those they Love are experiencing the hardships.
not saying my outlooks are right or wrong for many of my personal metaphysical/physical experiences strengthened my beliefs beyond...

NAMASTE*******

I'm not sure. I just know what works for me, and I respect that it might not work for others so while I may suggest my way if I am solicited for advice or sense that someone is in need or may benefit from it, I don't go around telling people what to do and if someone is not very receptive I don't continue because that would only push them further away from accepting the idea and deeper into their preconceived notions or whatever...

a reply to: danielsil18
but if you say you don't know, are you really an atheist? it sounds like you're admitting that God or Gods is a possibility.

unless you are saying that you don't know what it is but whatever it is, you're sure it isn't god or gods.

and if that's the case, you'd then have to answer the ops question about why you are so sure (that it isn't god or gods).

if you're just saying you don't know and it could be anything, that's just being agnostic. some people like the term atheist to wear as a badge to express their dedication to opposing some religion they dislike or whose adherents annoy them. Usually Christianity, but usually their beef is with Christians who do not adhere to their beliefs to any admirable degree...

The term atheist distances oneself further from the "religious idiots" than the term agnostic, as agnostic is often a label preferred by those who actually are somewhat religious but can't decide which one is right or correct. but agnostic includes those who are not necessarily religious in any way but who logically acknowledge that they themselves don't know because they have no way of knowing.

I used to be very scared of not believing when I was a child. In truth, I believed but not the way those in my family seemed to. We went to a church where it was common for members to speak "in tongues" and I was ashamed that the Holy Spirit knew I was a doubter and chose to remain away from me. Then, I chalked it up to being young; I would become more religious as I got older and would know the truth.

Now, many years later, I realize that I have always believed what I believed. God, to me, is not the one that visited the Pentecostal church on the hill. I'm not certain of anything except that I feel there is much more to this whole human thing than birth and death. I wonder much greater things than I was taught to.

So, does anyone really believe they know for sure? I often think about other people I went to church with. Did they ever feel that doubt but put on a different face?